A Seeker's Dilemma

[Podo]

Hello all,

I want to talk to people about what they believe, why it works for them, and why they consider their path to be a positive thing in their lives.

I'm wondering how everyone here settled on the belief set that they eventually settled on. What about your religion won you over? When did you decide to start identifying as a member of whatever community you belong to? Did you have difficulty being accepted into your group? I am particularly interested in Hinduism and Heathenism, and to a lesser extent modern Paganism (both neo and reconstructionist). I'm attracted by the orthopraxic, rather than orthodoxic, aspects of these faiths, as well as the seemingly world-affirming outlook, rather than the classical abrahamic world-denying outlook.

Currently, I'm experiencing a form of philosophical crisis, insofar as my lifelong materialism just isn't cuttin' it anymore. I am at a point in my life where I feel like I should align myself with a particular philosophy and/or religion. This is a pretty significant shift for me, as I've been an atheist since I was a child, and my profession has reinforced this attitude (I work in the science and technology sector).

I have been fascinated with religion all my life, though. I have read every holy text I can get my hands on, everything from the Abrahamic texts, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, the Eddas, Tao Te Ching in English and Mandarin, Buddhist texts, and many others. My partner is a Celtic Reconstructionist. I take great interest in her rituals and beliefs, to the point where I have begun to think that my interest is not merely academic.

 

[Treks]

May I suggest exploring Stoicism? It may give you just enough God to give you some connection, can provide a solid philosophical foundation for a worldview, and it's exercises are often called "spiritual exercises". If this sounds of interest, I suggest starting here: Traditional Stoicism

I am a seeker myself and although I'm currently exploring Heathenry myself, I frequently fall back to Stoicism. The two paths are not very compatible, sadly, and Stoicism is more coherent at this point. I don't think you can "align yourself" with Heathenry - it's more about finding your own alignment because there isn't anything solid there to align to (there are some great Heathen concepts, don't get me wrong - but you have to make your own path by and large).

Good luck

 

[Vinayaka]

Hello all,

I want to talk to people about what they believe, why it works for them, and why they consider their path to be a positive thing in their lives.

I'm wondering how everyone here settled on the belief set that they eventually settled on. What about your religion won you over? When did you decide to start identifying as a member of whatever community you belong to? Did you have difficulty being accepted into your group? I am particularly interested in Hinduism and Heathenism, and to a lesser extent modern Paganism (both neo and reconstructionist). I'm attracted by the orthopraxic, rather than orthodoxic, aspects of these faiths, as well as the seemingly world-affirming outlook, rather than the classical abrahamic world-denying outlook.

Currently, I'm experiencing a form of philosophical crisis, insofar as my lifelong materialism just isn't cuttin' it anymore. I am at a point in my life where I feel like I should align myself with a particular philosophy and/or religion. This is a pretty significant shift for me, as I've been an atheist since I was a child, and my profession has reinforced this attitude (I work in the science and technology sector).

I have been fascinated with religion all my life, though. I have read every holy text I can get my hands on, everything from the Abrahamic texts, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, the Eddas, Tao Te Ching in English and Mandarin, Buddhist texts, and many others. My partner is a Celtic Reconstructionist. I take great interest in her rituals and beliefs, to the point where I have begun to think that my interest is not merely academic.

Have you been to a Hindu temple? Perhaps you're approaching your dilemma as if it were in books, from a totally intellectual POV. Sunstone suggested mysticism (in my view a great suggestion) in your introductory thread. Mysticism is far more experiential than intellectual, and the dharmic religions are as well. Just a suggestion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I want to talk to people about what they believe, why it works for them, and why they consider their path to be a positive thing in their lives.

Hello all,

I want to talk to people about what they believe, why it works for them, and why they consider their path to be a positive thing in their lives.

I'm wondering how everyone here settled on the belief set that they eventually settled on. What about your religion won you over? When did you decide to start identifying as a member of whatever community you belong to? Did you have difficulty being accepted into your group? I am particularly interested in Hinduism and Heathenism, and to a lesser extent modern Paganism (both neo and reconstructionist). I'm attracted by the orthopraxic, rather than orthodoxic, aspects of these faiths, as well as the seemingly world-affirming outlook, rather than the classical abrahamic world-denying outlook.

Currently, I'm experiencing a form of philosophical crisis, insofar as my lifelong materialism just isn't cuttin' it anymore. I am at a point in my life where I feel like I should align myself with a particular philosophy and/or religion. This is a pretty significant shift for me, as I've been an atheist since I was a child, and my profession has reinforced this attitude (I work in the science and technology sector).

I have been fascinated with religion all my life, though. I have read every holy text I can get my hands on, everything from the Abrahamic texts, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, the Eddas, Tao Te Ching in English and Mandarin, Buddhist texts, and many others. My partner is a Celtic Reconstructionist. I take great interest in her rituals and beliefs, to the point where I have begun to think that my interest is not merely academic.

Welcome. Im kinda smushn' your threads here..

I wasnt more of a seaker as to find my faith but moreso I try to develop my life around what I know is true, what I value, and how much I will trust the process of spiritual growth: even with the stuff thats hard to believe; because, I dont believe everyone "got it." Unless they're indoctrinated and no other reality, its pretty much trying to put away ego (I will find/I have found a faith I will not change) to develop flexibility and say: My beliefs grow even though the foundations are static.

Id probably assess your core values. Like, I was a christian four years of my adult life. I loved it. Then, reassessed my values to find possible conflicts with christianity's foundational teachings. Others are just off the charts.

I came to Buddhism after I visited many temples. I started with one lineage and continued to where I felt comfortable. With the beliefs, I didnt adopt them but it was a revelation of truth. From the four noble truths, rebirth, and practice. Well, Im stubborn with practice.

Id say a good religion is something that exists "in the background" just as much the foreground. We dont think of our morals every second of the day but we live by them naturally. If you can say "of course thats true" and go to work, it means (to me) youre focused on applying it to your life as second nature rather than intellectually putting aside religions to study them. I did that with christianity. I do that with buddhist suttas or The Dharma. Just the former was intellectual. The latter I just "check in" on spiritual uplifting, figure how to use it, and go to work.

My values are freedom, creativity, integrity, and peace. The suttas lets me understand these things. Also, just to reflect and to live The Dharma rather than reading, lets me apply what I know as a healing force in my life.

If you cant find internal motivation to "want to grow even if you dont believe in All the tenents of a said faith" I wouldnt go for it. Religion makes you challenge yourself. Your goals. Your values.

Also, youd got to get used to me. I write long posts.

 

[WalterTrull]

My take is that you shouldn't sweat it too much. You seem to be doing things right. Whatever balm is currently the most soothing. The glass clears slowly. The clouds eventually melt away. All roads eventually lead to the same place. Try to enjoy the trip.
Here's my favorite exchange from "Take Me Along" the musical version of "Ah Wilderness"
Richard: "Live life Muriel"
Muriel: "I don't see how I can help but do that, Richard"
Kinda sums it up.

 

[Quintessence]

To offer the short and sweet version of how I ended up with Druidry (which is one branch within contemporary Paganism) it was something of an inevitable destination based on who and what I am. I've been strongly oriented to the sciences and the arts since I was a kid, but was ignorant of religious options that really cultivated those affinities. I didn't know contemporary Paganism was a thing until I was in college, but when I learned it was a thing, it was a breath of fresh air. Finally, a religious demographic where "god" was conceptualized in ways that made sense! Finally, a religious demographic that would accept the sciences in one hand and the otherworlds in the other!

I didn't start identifying as a Druid, specifically, until I joined an order and went through a proper initiation/training program. The orientation of my path was always in that direction, but it didn't feel right to identify as a Druid without being part of an established order. I tossed my hat in with OBOD and have worked through their Bardic Grade. I aspire to do the next grade at some point, but the time doesn't feel right just yet. I'm letting the journey unfold as it's meant to.

 

[Podo]

Have you been to a Hindu temple? Perhaps you're approaching your dilemma as if it were in books, from a totally intellectual POV. Sunstone suggested mysticism (in my view a great suggestion) in your introductory thread. Mysticism is far more experiential than intellectual, and the dharmic religions are as well. Just a suggestion.

I have not, as there is not one in my city or anywhere near where I am. I would very much like to do so, however, and plan to do so next time I visit my province's single large city.

Welcome. Im kinda smushn' your threads here..

I wasnt more of a seaker as to find my faith but moreso I try to develop my life around what I know is true, what I value, and how much I will trust the process of spiritual growth: even with the stuff thats hard to believe; because, I dont believe everyone "got it." Unless they're indoctrinated and no other reality, its pretty much trying to put away ego (I will find/I have found a faith I will not change) to develop flexibility and say: My beliefs grow even though the foundations are static.

Id probably assess your core values. Like, I was a christian four years of my adult life. I loved it. Then, reassessed my values to find possible conflicts with christianity's foundational teachings. Others are just off the charts.

I came to Buddhism after I visited many temples. I started with one lineage and continued to where I felt comfortable. With the beliefs, I didnt adopt them but it was a revelation of truth. From the four noble truths, rebirth, and practice. Well, Im stubborn with practice.

Id say a good religion is something that exists "in the background" just as much the foreground. We dont think of our morals every second of the day but we live by them naturally. If you can say "of course thats true" and go to work, it means (to me) youre focused on applying it to your life as second nature rather than intellectually putting aside religions to study them. I did that with christianity. I do that with buddhist suttas or The Dharma. Just the former was intellectual. The latter I just "check in" on spiritual uplifting, figure how to use it, and go to work.

My values are freedom, creativity, integrity, and peace. The suttas lets me understand these things. Also, just to reflect and to live The Dharma rather than reading, lets me apply what I know as a healing force in my life.

If you cant find internal motivation to "want to grow even if you dont believe in All the tenents of a said faith" I wouldnt go for it. Religion makes you challenge yourself. Your goals. Your values.

Also, youd got to get used to me. I write long posts.

This is a solid way of thinking about it, actually. Assess values, find something that matches, and then learn as much as you can about it. I have read a lot about Buddhism, actually, and it does sound good. I also lived in Taiwan for a year, and interacted with many Buddhists. I greatly respect the pillars and what I know of the values, though the concept of reincarnation is a bit iffy to me.

Length of post is no issue, I appreciate thorough responses

 

[Podo]

To offer the short and sweet version of how I ended up with Druidry (which is one branch within contemporary Paganism) it was something of an inevitable destination based on who and what I am. I've been strongly oriented to the sciences and the arts since I was a kid, but was ignorant of religious options that really cultivated those affinities. I didn't know contemporary Paganism was a thing until I was in college, but when I learned it was a thing, it was a breath of fresh air. Finally, a religious demographic where "god" was conceptualized in ways that made sense! Finally, a religious demographic that would accept the sciences in one hand and the otherworlds in the other!

I didn't start identifying as a Druid, specifically, until I joined an order and went through a proper initiation/training program. The orientation of my path was always in that direction, but it didn't feel right to identify as a Druid without being part of an established order. I tossed my hat in with OBOD and have worked through their Bardic Grade. I aspire to do the next grade at some point, but the time doesn't feel right just yet. I'm letting the journey unfold as it's meant to.

Ah, so you've actually gone through the OBOD course? I looked into that, and it is intriguing to me. My main hobbies are fishing, camping, hiking, foraging, herbalism, and anything that gets me away from the computers and into nature, so the Pagan/Druid pathways have been very interesting to me. Would you say that the bardic training was necessary for the development of your beliefs, or was it more of a formality?

 

[Quintessence]

Ah, so you've actually gone through the OBOD course? I looked into that, and it is intriguing to me. My main hobbies are fishing, camping, hiking, foraging, herbalism, and anything that gets me away from the computers and into nature, so the Pagan/Druid pathways have been very interesting to me. Would you say that the bardic training was necessary for the development of your beliefs, or was it more of a formality?

By the time I decided to embark on the Bardic Grade with OBOD, my path was already well-established. What I wanted was a journey that would continue the development of my path as it was, or provide tools to enhance it and open up new directions. I researched several Druidic organizations and did a fair amount of introspection before settling on OBOD. The groups that were in the running were AODA, ADF, and OBOD.

I decided against AODA because while I really love the structure of their program, I'd already done everything in their First Degree curriculum (and then some). I wanted something that would be new and add to my existing path rather than retread where I'd already been. I decided against ADF because while I respect their commitment to scholarship, I decided I wasn't interested in attempting reconstructionism or making my religious path more academic than it already was. OBOD seemed like the best fit at the time, having listened to their podcast for many years and loved the blending of science, scholarship, art, music, and poetry. Going through the course - when done with diligence - is something like an initiatory experience or mystery tradition. It's transformative if you put the work into it.

Thus, it was and wasn't a formality. I'm not the sort to say one must go through some sort of mystery school or training program to be an authentic Druid, but doing that does give you a different perspective.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have not, as there is not one in my city or anywhere near where I am. I would very much like to do so, however, and plan to do so next time I visit my province's single large city.

Boss and I like exploring cities for temples. We found and went to 13 in the city you mention. I can recommend if you like.

 

[Valjean]

Hello all,

I want to talk to people about what they believe, why it works for them, and why they consider their path to be a positive thing in their lives.

What does a belief have to do with what works for someone?
A thing is either a fact or falsehood. How it impacts one's life has nothing to do with its veracity, and should have nothing to do with whether one believes it.

Shouldn't one believe whatever the best evidence indicates, regardless of weather or not it's convenient or comforting?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Currently, I'm experiencing a form of philosophical crisis, insofar as my lifelong materialism just isn't cuttin' it anymore. I am at a point in my life where I feel like I should align myself with a particular philosophy and/or religion.

What brought you to this assessment?

I'm wondering how everyone here settled on the belief set that they eventually settled on. What about your religion won you over?

I have no religion. But my beliefs are based on experience.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

 

[Podo]

Shouldn't one believe whatever the best evidence indicates, regardless of weather or not it's convenient or comforting?

Yes, I agree. This is why I have issues with belief in general. I don't understand how someone can look at a creation myth or set of deities, and think "Yes this is true" if it is unprovable. It's part of why I'm here, to learn how and why people do this.

What brought you to this assessment?

I have no religion. But my beliefs are based on experience.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

Well, how do you trust your experiences? The human ability to perceive is notoriously unreliable.

 

[Podo]

By the time I decided to embark on the Bardic Grade with OBOD, my path was already well-established. What I wanted was a journey that would continue the development of my path as it was, or provide tools to enhance it and open up new directions. I researched several Druidic organizations and did a fair amount of introspection before settling on OBOD. The groups that were in the running were AODA, ADF, and OBOD.

I decided against AODA because while I really love the structure of their program, I'd already done everything in their First Degree curriculum (and then some). I wanted something that would be new and add to my existing path rather than retread where I'd already been. I decided against ADF because while I respect their commitment to scholarship, I decided I wasn't interested in attempting reconstructionism or making my religious path more academic than it already was. OBOD seemed like the best fit at the time, having listened to their podcast for many years and loved the blending of science, scholarship, art, music, and poetry. Going through the course - when done with diligence - is something like an initiatory experience or mystery tradition. It's transformative if you put the work into it.

Thus, it was and wasn't a formality. I'm not the sort to say one must go through some sort of mystery school or training program to be an authentic Druid, but doing that does give you a different perspective.

Thank you for sharing!

 

[GoodbyeDave]

What does a belief have to do with what works for someone? A thing is either a fact or falsehood. Shouldn't one believe whatever the best evidence indicates, regardless of weather or not it's convenient or comforting?

That's assuming that there is only one religious truth and that everybody needs the same things. Neither Celtic nor Germanic gods attracted me, but that doesn't mean that I deny them or that I can't see how many people can relate to them.

Sometimes, very occasionally, a deity turns up and introduces themself, but usually you have to make the first move. I chose the Greek gods (if it was really my unaided choice) and only then did I experience them.

 

[Podo]

That's assuming that there is only one religious truth and that everybody needs the same things. Neither Celtic nor Germanic gods attracted me, but that doesn't mean that I deny them or that I can't see how many people can relate to them.

Sometimes, very occasionally, a deity turns up and introduces themself, but usually you have to make the first move. I chose the Greek gods (if it was really my unaided choice) and only then did I experience them.

Interesting. So you made a conscious choice to pursue the Hellenic deities, and then felt their presence? Did you do rituals and whatnot, or was it more of just a shift in your thinking?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Well, how do you trust your experiences? The human ability to perceive is notoriously unreliable.

Excellent question.

For me, the trust lies beyond human perception by the ego-self, which is usually a result research and critical thinking. The primary source of trust in experience lies in the Self's observation of the experience through the progression of said experience.

 

[Podo]

Excellent question.

For me, the trust lies beyond human perception by the ego-self, which is usually a result research and critical thinking. The primary source of trust in experience lies in the Self's observation of the experience through the progression of said experience.

Well sure, but if you don't physically see something with your eyes, how can you be sure that anything you perceive isn't just a heaping teaspoon of pareidolia and/or confirmation bias?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Well sure, but if you don't physically see something with your eyes, how can you be sure that anything you perceive isn't just a heaping teaspoon of pareidolia and/or confirmation bias?

You're back to perception with sight, one of the five senses of the ego-self, which is not the observer I mentioned in my previous post.

But since you bring it up, how can you be sure anything perceived with the eyes (or any other sense, for that matter) isn't a "heaping teaspoon of pareidolia?"

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Interesting. So you made a conscious choice to pursue the Hellenic deities, and then felt their presence? Did you do rituals and whatnot, or was it more of just a shift in your thinking?

It's only been a direct communication a couple of times; usually it's a striking event at an appropriate time, and on a couple of occasions it was immediate relief from symptoms of illness on praying.