A short rant about fascism

[VioletVortex]

The "US is becoming fascist" stuff is pure hysteria. The kind of whinging people have been doing since the beginning of the nation's existence. Every political system has dynasties, factions, and the like. America still has a pretty good turnover rate in its politicians, especially at local levels, and still has lots of public control.

The election of Trump is a prime example of that, I'd argue. The Democrats went completely nuts when he started seriously campaigning, the Republicans tried to get in his way, but he blew through both and still managed to become President. The "oligarchy" couldn't stop him.

Fascism also requires the fascist spirit and ideology, not just fascist policies. Kind of like how if a cult goes and lives on a farm together, they might be sharing everything, but they're not Marxist Communists. But the Fourteen Defining Characteristics don't apply that well now anyways.

#1. Powerful and Rampant Nationalism
Right off the bat, that ****ty article makes a mistake by equating patriotism with nationalism. It mostly focuses on expressions of patriotic sentiment as opposed to the substance of it. I find this questionable, since the symbolism used to be common in general, and since it ignores what the sentiment represents.

American nationalism in this day and age is mostly civic, as even the Right-wing swears that anybody who can file some paperwork and learn to answer a few questions on civics is a full-blooded American. Abdul from Azerbaijan is as much an "American" as somebody who's ancestors have been here for hundreds of years (even though that's patently ridiculous).

Then, you can see where there's been declining respect for America itself and for American heritage among the media especially and the public.

#2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
America sort of lags behind since it's one of the few countries that has a legal death penalty, as well as some other things. To me, though, that just goes to show what pussies the rest of the world has become. It's common sense that if somebody, say, goes on a shooting spree that kills a bunch of kids (<cough> Breivik <cough>), you take their head off, as opposed to buying them a new video game console.

But as far as the trends go, America is/has been moving towards Europe's understanding of "human rights," stupid as it may be, and slow as the process may be.

#3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
This one applies to some degree. "Terrorists" being the main enemy identified. The government has traditionally been reluctant to really point out specific groups, though, hiding behind words like, well, terrorist. What kind of terrorist?

#4. Supremacy of the Military
This one is correct, the US does waste tons of money on its military, and the military is put on way too high of a pedestal. I feel like whatever jerkoff professor made the article, though, failed to include that fascist regimes don't just glorify the military, but also give the military considerable influence over the civilian administration. We haven't really seen that in the US.

#5. Rampant Sexism
No, the laws have for some time been more biased against men.

#6. Controlled Mass Media
The media isn't really regulated in this country, but the mainstream sources tend to have a pro-establishment consensus (FOX for the Republican Party, all the others for the Democrats). This is kind of half-fascist, but the sad irony is that this "fascist" trait is mostly being used to support progressivism, so even then it barely counts.

#7. Obsession with National Security
"Obsession." I wouldn't say the US is obsessed with national security, but it's definitely obsessed with security as a concept in general.

#8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
LOL

#9. Corporate Power is Protected
Agreed.

#10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Disagree. The government both supports the unions and some of the big business interests. There's not a direct conflict between the two.

#11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Public spending on the arts is low, but I think the government is supportive in general of intellectualism.

#12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Depends on the group, but the government is generally rather hung up on this. Excessive punishments, way too many things criminalized. But when it comes to stuff like quelling riots, the government's ****ing useless.

#13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
This one is quite bad in the US. Way less than in Second/Third World countries, but bad compared to where it should be.

#14. Fraudulent Elections
Maybe, I dunno. Tons of fraud in elections, but there is no way of telling if it's to the degree of determining election outcomes.

Ah...yes...14. Very clever. Especially considering Hitler's style of government was not actually fascist.

Those seem to be more the defining criteria for right wing politics.

 

[Valjean]

The "US is becoming fascist" stuff is pure hysteria. The kind of whinging people have been doing since the beginning of the nation's existence. Every political system has dynasties, factions, and the like. America still has a pretty good turnover rate in its politicians, especially at local levels, and still has lots of public control.

The election of Trump is a prime example of that, I'd argue. The Democrats went completely nuts when he started seriously campaigning, the Republicans tried to get in his way, but he blew through both and still managed to become President. The "oligarchy" couldn't stop him.

Fascism also requires the fascist spirit and ideology, not just fascist policies. Kind of like how if a cult goes and lives on a farm together, they might be sharing everything, but they're not Marxist Communists. But the Fourteen Defining Characteristics don't apply that well now anyways.

#1. Powerful and Rampant Nationalism
Right off the bat, that ****ty article makes a mistake by equating patriotism with nationalism. It mostly focuses on expressions of patriotic sentiment as opposed to the substance of it. I find this questionable, since the symbolism used to be common in general, and since it ignores what the sentiment represents.

Patriotism is simply nationalism lite. Visitors remark on the proliferation of flags and other displays of public 'patriotism'.

#2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
America sort of lags behind since it's one of the few countries that has a legal death penalty, as well as some other things. To me, though, that just goes to show what pussies the rest of the world has become. It's common sense that if somebody, say, goes on a shooting spree that kills a bunch of kids (<cough> Breivik <cough>), you take their head off, as opposed to buying them a new video game console.

America consistently ignores human rights abuse where there's corporate or military advantage to be gained, and even within its own borders it shows little interest in curbing predatory corporations.

#3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
This one applies to some degree. "Terrorists" being the main enemy identified. The government has traditionally been reluctant to really point out specific groups, though, hiding behind words like, well, terrorist. What kind of terrorist?

Anarchists, trade unionists, commies, radicals, and now terrorists. Even "liberal" has become a dirty word.
The US is quick to take advantage of Klein moments like 9/11 or Katrina to advance corporate interests and the police-surveillance state.

#4. Supremacy of the Military
This one is correct, the US does waste tons of money on its military, and the military is put on way too high of a pedestal. I feel like whatever jerkoff professor made the article, though, failed to include that fascist regimes don't just glorify the military, but also give the military considerable influence over the civilian administration. We haven't really seen that in the US.

I agree -- mostly. There is no existential threat to the US. What enemies we have were created by our own military and corporate adventurism.
The military does not protect our freedom or work for the benefit of the average citizen. Its job is to secure markets for corporations, maintain our military hegemony and generate profits for the defense industry.
As for glorifying the military, the military is lionized. Uniformed soldiers are constantly being "thanked for their service," (service?) They get discounts from retailers and preferential treatment in employment.
Thus far, though, they do remain under government control.

#5. Rampant Sexism
No, the laws have for some time been more biased against men.

You'll have to clarify this.

#6. Controlled Mass Media
The media isn't really regulated in this country, but the mainstream sources tend to have a pro-establishment consensus (FOX for the Republican Party, all the others for the Democrats). This is kind of half-fascist, but the sad irony is that this "fascist" trait is mostly being used to support progressivism, so even then it barely counts.

The major media outlets, print and broadcast, have been merged into just a handful of corporate monopolies. They're not going to give a fair and balanced overview of the healthcare or energy debate when they also own insurance, pharmaceutical and oil companies. The public can't make informed decisions unless they're actually informed.

#7. Obsession with National Security
"Obsession." I wouldn't say the US is obsessed with national security, but it's definitely obsessed with security as a concept in general.

France agrees to take in 100,000 refugees the day after the 11/15 terrorist attack in Paris. The US balks at the prospect of 10,000 heavily screened refugees and wants to build a wall to protect it from Mexicans 'bringing drugs, crime and raping'.
Who's insecure?
#8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

LOL

Not completely intertwined, true, but policies are heavily influenced by religious sentiments.

#10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Disagree. The government both supports the unions and some of the big business interests. There's not a direct conflict between the two.

Compare the percentage of union members today with that of 50 years ago, and when was the last time you saw a paper with a Labor section alongside a Business section?
The right has been actively undermining unions for decades with their free-market corporatism and 'right-to-work legislation. The middle class is shrinking.

#11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Public spending on the arts is low, but I think the government is supportive in general of intellectualism.

Fully half of congress are climate deniers, including the chair of the House science committee. Many are creationists. Republicans in general are anti-science.
Funding for PBS, NPR, education and the arts has been drastically reduced and continues to be cut.

#12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Depends on the group, but the government is generally rather hung up on this. Excessive punishments, way too many things criminalized. But when it comes to stuff like quelling riots, the government's ****ing useless.

Agreed -- mostly. As for riots, though, as often as not it's the police who start them. There are still ~150 demonstrators under indictment for "rioting" in DC, facing an average of ~75 years in prison after being kettled and attacked by police.
The government not only comes down hard on demonstrators, they're are at least 18 anti-demonstration bills on the table in various states.

#13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
This one is quite bad in the US. Way less than in Second/Third World countries, but bad compared to where it should be.

Agreed.

#14. Fraudulent Elections
Maybe, I dunno. Tons of fraud in elections, but there is no way of telling if it's to the degree of determining election outcomes.

More than tons: Gerrymandering, interstate crosscheck, polling place meddling, caging -- the list is endless, and almost invariably favor the Republicans. A case could be made, in fact, that there has not been a legitimately elected Republican since Eisenhower.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Valjean]

That's still not Fascist corporatism.

Call it what you will, it's a collusion between government and business interests, to the detriment of citizen interests.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

It was in use in Europe going back to prehistoric times. The oldest one has been found in Ukraine. It has deep meaning in Germanic and Slavic religion. The Greeks made use of it, too. It doesn't belong to any one group in particular.

I wasn't aware it was used in present day Ukraine prior to the Indian empires. I thought cultures adopted it directly from India. Where in Ukraine was this oldest Swastika found?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I wasn't aware it was used in present day Ukraine prior to the Indian empires. I thought cultures adopted it directly from India. Where in Ukraine was this oldest Swastika found?

Mezin. It was mentioned here: How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it - BBC News

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Call it what you will, it's a collusion between government and business interests, to the detriment of citizen interests.

Which has nothing to do with Third Positionist economic theory.

 

[Valjean]

Which has nothing to do with Third Positionist economic theory.

Nativist Neo-Nazis have an economic theory?

 

[Stevicus]

Many people throw around the world "fascism". Fascism is not Nazism. It is a specific political ideology involving concentrating governmental power into one leader. It began in Italy as a flawed attempt to revive the in itself flawed Roman Empire. The philosophical logic (or lack of thereof) behind fascism was that the centralization of political power into one person would eliminate argument between various parties, allowing the government to be more decisive. Whether or not it applies to Nazism, Communism, etc. is up for debate. The reason it is associated with Nazism us because Adolf Hitler and the actual fascist leader Mussolini were collaborators during WWII.

I used to be a fascist. I was sort of counting on a good leader, I suppose. That is not going to happen, however, let's face it.

I've observed that such terms tend to be tossed around frivolously. Such as when "fascist" or "Nazi" are used to describe any authority figure or individual who is overly rigid or strict, particularly when it comes to petty rules and protocols. One example from popular culture might be the "Soup Nazi." I suppose one can observe the same with Communist regimes, at least as far as being severely rigid and strict in their form and manner. I knew a guy who often referred to overly strict cops as "communists," although I've seen more people use the term "fascist" to describe overzealous law enforcement officers.

As for the ideologies themselves (communism, fascism, nazism), I've seen a lot of people speak of them in more abstract systemic terms, without putting much consideration on the historical context and the circumstances faced by the individual nations where these ideologies took hold. The political cultures of individual nations are oftentimes somewhat unique and can't really be applied across boundaries. I think we make the same mistake here in the West, believing that democracy is so wonderful - and that every nation in the world should be governed just like ours.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nativist Neo-Nazis have an economic theory?

Various ones.

 

[Revoltingest]

But Fascism is anything but cut and dry -- as this thread illustrates. The US does resemble Mussolini's corporatist definition, in that over the last ~30 years corporate mergers have resulted in only a handful of corporations controlling media, agriculture, healthcare, energy, and, unfortunately, Congress, completing the corporate-government merger.
The Princeton study makes this clear. Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy - BBC News

How does the study establish this?