A simple case for intelligent design

[SkepticThinker]

This "gem" based on the fact, no doubt, that millions people testify their prayers work, and SETI has found zero.

Can those millions of people demonstrate that their prayers worked?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is your response to: "Please provide your proofs here that this space-time is all, there is no multiverse, and there is nowhere water outside this universe?" -- being the question you begged?

This incoherent question alone tells us that you have no clue on how science is done. When a person makes a claim it is up to that person to support it. If he can't there is no need to refute it, it has already been refuted by the person that made it up.

 

[Milton Platt]

Address what I wrote, not what you presume I said--the water was outside the expansion/our know universe.

I'm curious...how do you know what is outside the known universe, much less the entire universe?

 

[Milton Platt]

This incoherent question alone tells us that you have no clue on how science is done. When a person makes a claim it is up to that person to support it. If he can't there is no need to refute it, it has already been refuted by the person that made it up.

Well, it at least is nothing but an unsubstantiated claim.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Again, not even a reasonable starting point without some explanation of how water was formed in such quantities outside of our known universe. I doubt any serious scientists would take this seriously *at all*.

First, it in no way fits with what we know of cosmology. It doens't fit with what we know of how the elements are formed (inside of stars). To get the densities required is completely unphysical.

And... this concept of your mainly involves 1) no scientist knowing with any certainty what happens outside our universe/in a multiverse/in another dimension/prior to planck time and the singularity's expansion and 2) your presumption that nothing in the Bible could possibly be true.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm curious...how do you know what is outside the known universe, much less the entire universe?

I'm curious, how did you decide what/who cannot be outside the known universe?

 

[Milton Platt]

And... this concept of your mainly involves 1) no scientist knowing with any certainty what happens outside our universe/in a multiverse/in another dimension/prior to planck time and the singularity's expansion and 2) your presumption that nothing in the Bible could possibly be true.

It is merely pointing out that you yourself are claiming to know what happens outside a universe and failing to provide any evidence to support your claim.

There are a number of claims in the Bible that are true. That does not make all of them true.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I love mythology. The Big Bang being one of them and the formation of heavy elements...

Evidence Against the Big Bang Theory | KGOV.com

 

[Polymath257]

And... this concept of your mainly involves 1) no scientist knowing with any certainty what happens outside our universe/in a multiverse/in another dimension/prior to planck time and the singularity's expansion and 2) your presumption that nothing in the Bible could possibly be true.

The second is irrelevant. The first is special pleading. The point is that we know what water is and how the basic chemicals come about. Without a mechanism to produce it in sufficient quantities for the effects you want, there is no reason at all to even make the speculation that such is the case.

What actual evidence do you have that this explains *anything* we actually see?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And... this concept of your mainly involves 1) no scientist knowing with any certainty what happens outside our universe/in a multiverse/in another dimension/prior to planck time and the singularity's expansion and 2) your presumption that nothing in the Bible could possibly be true.

You don't seem to understand. Just because someone abused a religious book does not give their idea any credibility at all. If you want to claim the universe was surrounded by water the burden of proof is upon you. If you can't support your claim you in effect refute yourself. If a Muslim made a similar claim about Mohammad riding a horse to the Moon and back he would have the burden of proof for that claim And if a person without religion made the same sort of claim he too would have to support his claims.

There is no prejudice here. There is only proper reasoning.

 

[Milton Platt]

I love mythology. The Big Bang being one of them and the formation of heavy elements...

Evidence Against the Big Bang Theory | KGOV.com

Just out of curiosity, let’s pretend that the Big Bang theory is wrong, and heavy elements are made in some other unknown way. For good measure, let’s toss out evolution as well. Where does that leave us on the questions, except to admit we do not know?

 

[Polymath257]

I love mythology. The Big Bang being one of them and the formation of heavy elements...

Evidence Against the Big Bang Theory | KGOV.com

And those seem to question more our understanding of formation of structure *after* the Big Bang than the Big Bang. Yes, there are aspects of structure formation we don't understand. That doens't affect the basic BB description. Nor, for that matter, do studies of radioactivity on Earth or the spin of the sun.

It looks to me like they are shooting a shotgun at a target and hoping to hit something.

 

[Milton Platt]

I'm curious, how did you decide what/who cannot be outside the known universe?

I have no idea what is outside the known universe, and never made such a claim. Neither do you, and that is my point.
The known universe is that portion of the universe we can detect because light has had sufficient time to travel the distance to the place we are observing the objects from. There is likely more universe beyond the visible. Beyond that, we do not really know where the edge of our universe lies, if it does have an edge.

 

[Milton Platt]

And... this concept of your mainly involves 1) no scientist knowing with any certainty what happens outside our universe/in a multiverse/in another dimension/prior to planck time and the singularity's expansion and 2) your presumption that nothing in the Bible could possibly be true.

There are true things in the Bible. There are true things in the Quran. There are true things in Harry Potter.
That does not make everything in the Bible, the Quran, or Harry Potter true.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You don't seem to understand. Just because someone abused a religious book does not give their idea any credibility at all. If you want to claim the universe was surrounded by water the burden of proof is upon you. If you can't support your claim you in effect refute yourself. If a Muslim made a similar claim about Mohammad riding a horse to the Moon and back he would have the burden of proof for that claim And if a person without religion made the same sort of claim he too would have to support his claims.

There is no prejudice here. There is only proper reasoning.

I agree! Now, if you are interested, you will review the math and calculations this theory proposed online, and then get into at least a lay understanding of relativity, time dilation and gravity wells. The theory is reasonable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree! Now, if you are interested, you will review the math and calculations this theory proposed online, and then get into at least a lay understanding of relativity, time dilation and gravity wells. The theory is reasonable.

What are you talking about? Let's not abuse terms. You were not discussing a theory. You were pushing a WAG, a wild donkeyed guess.

 

[Polymath257]

I agree! Now, if you are interested, you will review the math and calculations this theory proposed online, and then get into at least a lay understanding of relativity, time dilation and gravity wells. The theory is reasonable.

No, sorry, but the theory isn't at all reasonable. To postulate that amount of water just outside of the observable universe is simply not reasonable. From the scientific perspective, it would be considered a non-starter from the get-go.

And no, it isn't because it is associated with a form of Biblical literalism. The theory itself would be discarded as non-sense on sight.

But let's face it. The only reason that theory was even proposed is to rescue some form of Biblical literalism. It is silly enough that it simply would not even be on the table except for that.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, sorry, but the theory isn't at all reasonable. To postulate that amount of water just outside of the observable universe is simply not reasonable. From the scientific perspective, it would be considered a non-starter from the get-go.

And no, it isn't because it is associated with a form of Biblical literalism. The theory itself would be discarded as non-sense on sight.

But let's face it. The only reason that theory was even proposed is to rescue some form of Biblical literalism. It is silly enough that it simply would not even be on the table except for that.

I see. You are saying it's unscientific to postulate the existence of anything outside the universe that has an effect on this universe, despite concepts like dark matter, dark energy, antimatter to balance matter, etc.

Where did you get your inquisition card, and is it laminated?

 

[Polymath257]

I see. You are saying it's unscientific to postulate the existence of anything outside the universe that has an effect on this universe, despite concepts like dark matter, dark energy, antimatter to balance matter, etc.

Where did you get your inquisition card, and is it laminated?

No, I am not saying that it is unscientific to postulate that there are things outside of the observable universe. I am saying that it is unreasonable to postulate *water in that quantity* just outside of our universe. For one thing, what prevents it from evaporating immediately?

 

[sayak83]

And... this concept of your mainly involves 1) no scientist knowing with any certainty what happens outside our universe/in a multiverse/in another dimension/prior to planck time and the singularity's expansion and 2) your presumption that nothing in the Bible could possibly be true.

There is no water outside the universe...Lord Krishna just told me...and He knows all.