A Simple Question: Did Christ's Death Do Away With The Ten Commandments?

[Tammie]

Yohanon ben Yaaqov said: This is no different that asking "what is the difference between Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny?" What difference does it make? They're imaginary. The difference between zero and zero is zero.

For me, the difference is the truth....and what was really said and what was not. If it is imaginary to you, then it probably does not make any difference.

Your name means “God is gracious”, and that you are the son of Jacob, is that imaginary too? Just asking.

 

[metis]

You understand that that is only one codification? And that there are other codifications that may not have exactly 613 commandments?

Frankly, it doesn't make a difference as you simply are missing the point. If someone compiles it differently, and it comes out to 513, or whatever, does that really make any difference whatsoever?

So if you believe Moses, then you believe the Law is from God, yes?

See the bottom of my post to get that idea of what I personally believe. My comments on this are based on theology-- not what I personally believe.

According to Torah, it says that it was Moses who passed on the Commandments on to us.

So a Jew could be anybody really? Their practice of Judaism isn't even relevant? There is no meaningful line to be drawn?

"Jew" is a nationality; "Judaism" is a religion. If one belongs to the latter, they are considered a "Jew", but the converse is not intrinsically true.

Do you know what the Law is? Do you know where it is from?

Since I taught this for several decades, including about 10 years at a synagogue, ya.

Did Maimonides claim revelation from the Almighty when he wrote the law as 613 commandments?
Did he say, "God has come to me and revealed that the Law can be codified thus"?

You simply have no clue what you're talking about and seem to want to argue rather than learn, so I'll leave you on your own. It wouldn't be a bad idea if you did some studying, which might help you a ton. Here's a few links to help you along:

Covenant (biblical) - Wikipedia

Law of Moses - Wikipedia

Maimonides - Wikipedia
(scroll down to item #4)

 

[metis]

I don't use the OT to justify acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah and neither do any of the Apostles. Christ's resurrection from the dead justifies Him as Messiah.

The entire concept of the "messiah" is found in the "O.T."

The NT clearly states that the as yet unfulfilled prophesies will be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

Then Jesus cannot at this time be declared to be "the messiah" as that would have to be based on a complete fulfillment of the prophecies. Only a partial fulfillment could lead to a false positive.

 

[Ponder This]

Frankly, it doesn't make a difference as you simply are missing the point. If someone compiles it differently, and it comes out to 513, or whatever, does that really make any difference whatsoever?

Maybe I am missing the point. So... what was the point?

According to Torah, it says that it was Moses who passed on the Commandments on to us.

Since this isn't about what you believe (this is about theology), do you take this to mean that Moses invented the Law (i.e. we are obeying/disobeying Moses)?

"Jew" is a nationality; "Judaism" is a religion. If one belongs to the latter, they are considered a "Jew", but the converse is not intrinsically true.

So to clarify, when you asked me if I thought Jews were still under the law, you meant to include everyone whose nationality is Jew. So you meant to include people who practice Hinduism or Haitian voodoo or whatever when you asked me if they were still under the 'Law' (according to Moses)? There are plenty of people of Jewish nationality that reject Judaism. And because people may have joint citizenship, they may be United States citizens in addition to being Jewish citizens. So we could be talking about a lot of different people when you ask if Jewish people are under the Law. The only thing distinguishing them from 'gentiles' is this subtle question of nationality...

Since I taught this for several decades, including about 10 years at a synagogue, ya.

Good, then do you feel sufficiently prepared to give a clear answer? It's no harm if you don't; people devote their lives to this stuff and may never fully understand it.

You simply have no clue what you're talking about and seem to want to argue rather than learn, so I'll leave you on your own.

Peace.

 

[DavidFirth]

The entire concept of the "messiah" is found in the "O.T."

Then Jesus cannot at this time be declared to be "the messiah" as that would have to be based on a complete fulfillment of the prophecies. Only a partial fulfillment could lead to a false positive.

Actually, Messiah is the same thing as Son of God, Savior of the world, King of Kings, etc. At least Christians define it that way.

Wrong. I think when a person actually rises from the dead, that should be all the evidence we need.

 

[metis]

Actually, Messiah is the same thing as Son of God, Savior of the world, King of Kings, etc. At least Christians define it that way.

"Messiah" means "anointed one", and there are numerous messiahs in the Jewish scriptures. It does not mean "Son of God, Savior of the world, King of Kings, etc.".

Wrong. I think when a person actually rises from the dead, that should be all the evidence we need.

If one rose from the dead. Again, we all gotta be careful because a "belief" is not necessarily a "fact". Most religions do have some sort of belief in an afterlife, but that doesn't prove that there actually is one. If there is, great.

Personally, I have no particular belief that anyone rose from the dead, but I'm not going so far as to say that it has never happened.

 

[DavidFirth]

"Messiah" means "anointed one", and there are numerous messiahs in the Jewish scriptures. It does not mean "Son of God, Savior of the world, King of Kings, etc.".

If one rose from the dead. Again, we all gotta be careful because a "belief" is not necessarily a "fact". Most religions do have some sort of belief in an afterlife, but that doesn't prove that there actually is one. If there is, great.

Personally, I have no particular belief that anyone rose from the dead, but I'm not going so far as to say that it has never happened.

Well, until or unless you can prove Jesus Christ didn't rise from the dead I will believe the eyewitness testimonies of those who say He did.

 

[metis]

Well, until or unless you can prove Jesus Christ didn't rise from the dead I will believe the eyewitness testimonies of those who say He did.

But do you believe similar accounts in any other religion, such as the Muslim belief that Mohammed was shown heaven? After all, that supposedly was eyewitnessed as well.

 

[DavidFirth]

But do you believe similar accounts in any other religion, such as the Muslim belief that Mohammed was shown heaven? After all, that supposedly was eyewitnessed as well.

No, I do not. If I believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and Mohammed taught that He did not, how can I believe anything Mohammed said?

 

[blü 2]

Personally, I have no particular belief that anyone rose from the dead, but I'm not going so far as to say that it has never happened.

If you're dead you have irreversible cessation of vital functions, no?

So you don't come back from that, by definition.

 

[blü 2]

If I believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and Mohammed taught that He did not, how can I believe anything Mohammed said?

The question is not whether Mohammed said it, or Jesus said it, or Abraham, Dionysos, Osiris or An said it.

The question is, Is it an accurate statement about reality, and how do we know that?

 

[DavidFirth]

If you're dead you have irreversible cessation of vital functions, no?

So you don't come back from that, by definition.

Well, if the God who created the universe exists it is child's play to raise a person from the dead. His power is absolute, there is nothing to hard for Him. He could raise the dead from the dust.

 

[DavidFirth]

The question is not whether Mohammed said it, or Jesus said it, or Abraham, Dionysos, Osiris or An said it.

The question is, Is it an accurate statement about reality, and how do we know that?

No, your stubbornness is showing again. He asked me a question and I answered it. Your opinion is noted, of course, but it has little to do with the discussion you butted into.

 

[metis]

If you're dead you have irreversible cessation of vital functions, no?

So you don't come back from that, by definition.

My knowledge is limited, therefore you'll very often find me cloaking my statements. After all, that's what I was trained to do.