A singular thread for Gateway's nonsense

[Gunfingers]

Because i'm tired of seeing multiple threads getting bogged down with one person using two accounts to make the same bad arguments.

It started with the chicken/egg dilemma, and moved on from there to child-rearing.

Here he have some of his/her/it/their most recent posts.

I never mentioned Hebrew characters or the Bible....ur just evading the question...How could human babies rear themselves.....this is obviously what athiests must believe out of their ignorance....THERE IS A GOD!

The whole point of the chicken and the egg is not to prove whether eggs came first but rather to prove that no human baby can rear themselves! Please prove that from an athiestic perspective!!

Gateway, can you explain what your actual thesis here, is? I'm gathering that you believe that evolutionary theory posits that the first members of a new species are spawned without a parent, is that right?

 

[Breathe]

I've never seen such well researched, sensible, and reasoned arguments put forth by a newbie. I can't find any faults with them. God must have created the world like it is now! Down with evilution, the lie of Satan!

...*feels dirty*
[Yes people, that was me Poe-ing. Don't worry, I've not gone mad ]

 

[camanintx]

...*feels dirty*
[Yes people, that was me Poe-ing. Don't worry, I've not gone mad ]

Poorly done, I must say. No real creationist would be caught admitting they were wrong about anything.

 

[outhouse]

it is really just embarrassing humanity as well as religion

 

[Breathe]

Poorly done, I must say. No real creationist would be caught admitting they were wrong about anything.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Which does he/she think came first, the chicken or the egg. The bible does not say. It is very vague. Their book says their god created the "winged" birds but what it doesn't say is whether birds started off as hatch-lings or "fully formed". And if they started off fully formed why do they lay their offspring in eggs instead birthing fully formed as they, themselves, were "created". Additionally, why is there no mention of non-winged birds being "created".

IMO relying on the bible for answers for the natural world around us makes no sense considering it leads to more questions than answers.

 

[McBell]

Which does he/she think came first, the chicken or the egg. The bible does not say. It is very vague. Their book says their god created the "winged" birds but what it doesn't say is whether birds started off as hatch-lings or "fully formed". And if they started off fully formed why do they lay their offspring in eggs instead birthing fully formed as they, themselves, were "created". Additionally, why is there no mention of non-winged birds being "created".

IMO relying on the bible for answers for the natural world around us makes no sense considering it leads to more questions than answers.

I suspect that his whole chicken/egg/self rearing baby thing is nothing more than a setup to toss out "God did it".

 

[waitasec]

hey, where's gateway...?
mabe he/she went
:fishing:







opcorn:

 

[Why not?]

If I were to want one good answered, researched question from the atheist society is where the heck did this dense mass which was what created the big bang originate from.
I want an answer from you guys but I'll give you my opinion as well.
Since, from what I know at least, there is no possible answer for this question because the one law of physics "matter cannot be created or destroyed" makes anything else impossible. So even without getting into biblical reference the only way to explain this the obvious answer is an infinite and divine power. God. What could possibly explain it but something that is infinite?
And please research before you answer not what you think or heard.

 

[Breathe]

If I were to want one good answered, researched question from the atheist society is where the heck did this dense mass which was what created the big bang originate from.

Possibly from another universe?

To say "God did it", is too simple--like saying, "How did life come to be the way it is now?" "God did it". That's an answer which requires no examination and presupposes the existence of a divine entity. Just because we don't know at the moment doesn't mean we can shift the credit on to something else without evidence, or even if that something else even truly exists.

I believe in a form of "God", btw.


Oh, and welcome to RF

 

[McBell]

What could possibly explain it but something that is infinite?

Explain what, exactly?
We have no idea what was before the big bang.
Everything suggested is nothing more than a guess.

And simply saying "God Did It" when your answer should be "I Don't Know" is nothing more than a God Of The Gaps attitude.

And please research before you answer not what you think or heard.

Research what?
Since you are unable to prove that a god exists, how do you plan to show how this god is infinite?

 

[camanintx]

Since, from what I know at least, there is no possible answer for this question because the one law of physics "matter cannot be created or destroyed" makes anything else impossible.

Apparently you know very little about the subject or you wouldn't make such stupid comments. Haven't you ever heard of the atomic bomb?

 

[Gunfingers]

Apparently you know very little about the subject or you wouldn't make such stupid comments. Haven't you ever heard of the atomic bomb?

The advent of the matter/energy equivalence changed the phrasing to "Energy cannot be created or destroyed". It is entirely possible to transfer between the two, which is why nuclear reactions do not violate the laws of thermodynamics.

As for the actual question, I refer you to another post I made on this subject in a different thread.

Did it?

Everything as far back as the first Planck-Second after the Big Bang has been calculated out. What happened after that first Planck-Second is, therefore, pretty well established.

What happened during that first Planck-Second is unknowable. Physics as we know it doesn't make sense at distances less than Planck-Length (and thus times less than the time it takes light to travel one Planck-Length, AKA a Planck-Second) making that period impossible to conceive. Asking what happened before that is like asking what's north of the north pole because there was no time prior to the Big Bang. Proper causality requires time, ergo there is no reason to believe that the Big Bang was the result of any causal event.

In other words we have no way of knowing what, if anything "caused" the big bang. The laws of physics as we know them would require that the dense mass singularity did not come from anywhere, but rather always existed (see "conservation of energy" mentioned above) however because it exists outside the scope of our universe those rules may not apply.

 

[camanintx]

In other words we have no way of knowing what, if anything "caused" the big bang. The laws of physics as we know them would require that the dense mass singularity did not come from anywhere, but rather always existed (see "conservation of energy" mentioned above) however because it exists outside the scope of our universe those rules may not apply.

Exactly. All of the universe's mass could have been converted from energy just as mass is converted into energy by an atomic reaction, neither of which require an infinite and devine God to make them happen.

 

[Why not?]

Uh....what. Another universe. Did you seriously just say that.
Ok, lets just say thats what happened, where the heck did that universe come from.

And I assure you its not that simple. When people say God made the universe thats just the part we understand. People ask,"how is it possible for God to make the universe? One being?" No one can fathom it. What your doing is degrading Gods ability. For me to explain an everlasting God. No one understands how there can be an infinite being, well in a sense they can't. Its like explaining dry land to a fish. A fish has never experienced dry land so he could never understand. All that Fish has known is wet, how are you supposed to explain dry? Humans have a begining and ending. they are mortal, so how am I supposed to understand an infinite God.

Ok you have your "form of God" but all that means is that your creating a life style that suits you. Just what you think God should be. if I am wrong correct me.

What every evolutionist is scared of is someone destroying their own religion. They don't want an all mighty God having say over their lives. They want to be in-control. Look at Hitler and the Holocaust, look what happened when man became God.

someone said this and I forget who but he said "I don't have enough faith for evolution".
Just because you don't have anything to touch does not mean God does not exist. You need faith. And if you believe in evolution you already have enough, so just humor me and one day go to an Evangelistic meeting with an opened mind and see what you might have missed.

 

[Gunfingers]

Uh....what. Another universe. Did you seriously just say that.
Ok, lets just say thats what happened, where the heck did that universe come from.

And I assure you its not that simple. When people say God made the universe thats just the part we understand. People ask,"how is it possible for God to make the universe? One being?" No one can fathom it. What your doing is degrading Gods ability. For me to explain an everlasting God. No one understands how there can be an infinite being, well in a sense they can't. Its like explaining dry land to a fish. A fish has never experienced dry land so he could never understand. All that Fish has known is wet, how are you supposed to explain dry? Humans have a begining and ending. they are mortal, so how am I supposed to understand an infinite God.

Ok you have your "form of God" but all that means is that your creating a life style that suits you. Just what you think God should be. if I am wrong correct me.

What every evolutionist is scared of is someone destroying their own religion. They don't want an all mighty God having say over their lives. They want to be in-control. Look at Hitler and the Holocaust, look what happened when man became God.

someone said this and I forget who but he said "I don't have enough faith for evolution".
Just because you don't have anything to touch does not mean God does not exist. You need faith. And if you believe in evolution you already have enough, so just humor me and one day go to an Evangelistic meeting with an opened mind and see what you might have missed.

You've made a few key errors.

1) Telling me I cannot fathom god is not an argument in favor or god, and it certainly isn't an argument in favor of evolution.

2) Many "evolutionists" are not atheists, so claiming that evolutionists will deny god and start murdering jews is quite the non-sequiter.

3) I think it was Rick Warren who said that. Anyway, evolutionary theory does not ask for your faith. If there is a point you don't understand, all you need to do is ask and someone can point you to the relevant data. You'd be surprised at how well established evolutionary theory really is.

4) Not only are many of us not atheists, but those of us that are usually came from a religious upbringing. Telling me to try going to church is like telling me to try broccoli. My mother spent my whole childhood trying to get me into it, and it didn't take. Nothing's going to change now.

 

[camanintx]

Humans have a begining and ending. they are mortal, so how am I supposed to understand an infinite God.

Nice sophistry. How about we start with a simpler question. Do you accept the scientific theory that time and space are inter-related and that both came into existence about 1.38 billion years ago?

 

[fantome profane]

Nice sophistry. How about we start with a simpler question. Do you accept the scientific theory that time and space are inter-related and that both came into existence about 1.38 billion years ago?

13.8 billion years ago.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

13.8 billion years ago.

Those decimal points will get ya every time.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

A fish has never experienced dry land so he could never understand. All that Fish has known is wet, how are you supposed to explain dry?

Lung fish know both.