a topic that has been on my mind lately in regards to the soul...

[justpino]

for those who have a spiritual belief or an honest answer, i was wondering what your thoughts were...

which is worse:

selling your soul to the devil to get what you want

OR

committing suicide

i know from what i am taught, both are bad, but is one more of a mortal sin than the other?


if you have any notes/books/links online you recommend on this subject, it would be appreciated tremendously if they were marked. thanks!

 

[Heneni]

When a person contemplates suicide they are standing at a cross roads. Down one road is living on in the pain and depression they feel, but it also includes realizing that God is sovereign and our days are ordained by Him alone. It also leads to help through God's promises. He does not want us to be depressed and in pain, but He does want us to come to Him and ask for His help and then believe that He will help us. Down the other road is death on their timing not God's. It is saying that the person doesn't care what God wants, they want what they want, when they want it. It is also saying that they don't think God cares enough to help them through this time of hurt and pain, or maybe it is that they don't think God is powerful enough to save them.
The point is that the cross road is a choice that they have to make. Do they reject God and His plan for their life in favor of their own, or do they get on their knees and accept God's plan for them and His help which He has promised over and over again to give them?

Selling your soul to the devil is the same thing..attempting to get what you want rather than what god wants for you.

I can savely say that what god wants for you is far better than you want for yourself and what the devil wants for you.

Stay safe brother
Heneni
http://www.behindthebadge.net/suicide/index-2.html

 

[YmirGF]

for those who have a spiritual belief or an honest answer, i was wondering what your thoughts were...

Hiya Pino, welcome to the RF. I hope you enjoy your stay.

I will be happy to give you an honest answer.

which is worse:

selling your soul to the devil to get what you want

There are a few problems with the concept to begin with. Given the fact that neither the devil or the soul have been proven to exist, one might possibly question the logic of playing off one illusion to another for some hypothetical gain.

From a spiritual stance, the soul is not something you own, but rather, the soul is what you already are. That being the case the soul not something that can be used as collateral in a negotiation with any real or imagined being. In those terms why would you give yourself (and presumably your free will) to another for some personal gain? In my view, it is a self-defeating premise to begin with.

OR

committing suicide

In my view and perhaps my view alone, there is nothing inherently bad in the act of suicide, however running away from reality is never the best way to deal with reality. In those terms, suicide is perhaps the very last option when all other avenues have been exhausted. The bottom line is, as a personality with goals to achieve you have already invested a tremendous amount of energy to get where you are right now. It would seem a bit pointless to toss it all away by giving into despair. In situations where a terminal patient is kept alive soley by modern medical techniques this line blurs considerably as without the medical support the patient would surely die. If a person cut off their meds knowing that doing so would result in their death, in this case, is it really suicide, as they are already living on borrowed time.

i know from what i am taught, both are bad, but is one more of a mortal sin than the other?

I have no use for the concept of sin and am not terribly interested in questions of imagined morality.

if you have any notes/books/links online you recommend on this subject, it would be appreciated tremendously if they were marked. thanks!

I don't, no, but in theory some posters will paste links that support their imaginary lines of thought.

The bottom line is that both options given in the OP are not especially wise moves.

 

[3.14]

selling your soul to the devil to get what you want

OR

committing suicide

wel depends what you get for what you want since i would want my soul back then and a submarine sandwich
and suicide-easy submarine sandwich is easy choise

 

[justpino]

thank you for the warm welcome and the differing points of view. i appreciate them.

follow up for Heneni-

well, has there ever been the thought that part of God's plans is for us to commit suicide? what if someone was sitting with a gun ready to shoot themself but hasn't yet and a tree falls on them? in that case, it was God's plan, according to your thoughts.

but what if the person shot themself and then the tree fell on them? what would the premise be there? that God wanted the person with Him but he did it mear seconds before He could bring them home?

If God has our plans/paths already made out for us, to we really have free will? He knows our thoughts and actions before we do them, doesn't He?

 

[Heneni]

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...would-foreknowledge-contradict-free-will.html

I think this thread that wandered off started will give you some insights.

 

[PureX]

for those who have a spiritual belief or an honest answer, i was wondering what your thoughts were...

which is worse:

selling your soul to the devil to get what you want

OR

committing suicide

i know from what i am taught, both are bad, but is one more of a mortal sin than the other?


if you have any notes/books/links online you recommend on this subject, it would be appreciated tremendously if they were marked. thanks!

I don't believe that the first is possible. We can deny our own spirit in pursuit of things we think we want, I suppose. But I don't think we can "sell our souls". They remain with us, even though we might deny them, or deny the spirit within our "souls" that define us. In any case, all that would happen is that we would become miserable, I would guess. Who would want to live a life trying to be someone or something that they aren't?

As for suicide, that would be kind of the ultimate denial of one's soul, or spirit. But it's irrational and unnecessary, in nearly all cases. And a terrible waste in all cases.

 

[Surya Deva]

Neither.

You sell your soul and you're condemned; you commit suicide and you're condemned.

 

[Heneni]

But your situation lends and interesting twist.

Would you shoot yourself if you knew the tree was gonna fall on you?
Or would you move away from the tree and then shoot yourself.

God is not in control of the tree...it falls...he knows about it falling, and he knows about the trigger being pulled but he neither interferes with the fall of the tree or the bullet.

Heneni

 

[Surya Deva]

but what if the person shot themself and then the tree fell on them? what would the premise be there? that God wanted the person with Him but he did it mear seconds before He could bring them home?

It would not change the fact you went through with the act of killing yourself. So it is irrelevant if the tree falls on you afterwards.

 

[justpino]

But can there ever be a time in someone's life where they feel so compelled to be with God, in Heaven, to be in His glory, that they commit suicide so that person may be with Him? I guess that is the question I am asking now. Some people are so sick of the pain and frustration and that they want the joy, the inner peace, the lasting love, the happiness and want Heaven so badly that they do want they need in order to get there.

 

[Heneni]

I understand completely. The desire to be with god, to be in his presence all the time, and to see his glory, see goodness, peace, to be finally back in our fathers house, is so overwhelming that there is a real danger that we would want to get there before the time comes. Not fitting into this world, and the more dedicated we are the less we fit in, is quite obvious.

Someone can feel that they can not handle more of the same for the next thirty years or so...I can relate.

The notion to want to be with god is completely understandable , but the method of getting there is the problem.

This place is like torture for his children there is nothing here that satisfies, there is nothing here that would keep us here. There is really a lot of people who feel this way, you are not alone.

About a year ago, i was in exactly the same place. I have a huge mirror in my bathroom. On it i wrote a message with lipstick...it said...I'm coming to fetch you.

And i believe him.

 

[Surya Deva]

But can there ever be a time in someone's life where they feel so compelled to be with God, in Heaven, to be in His glory, that they commit suicide so that person may be with Him? I guess that is the question I am asking now. Some people are so sick of the pain and frustration and that they want the joy, the inner peace, the lasting love, the happiness and want Heaven so badly that they do want they need in order to get there.

What makes you think that you will meet god after death? Not all religions or even NDE(Near death experiences) support the view that one meets god. Hinduism says you only realise god in this life, not in the one after death. NDE say that there is little change between your mental state here and your mental state in the next.

I saw this great film a few years ago called, "What Dreams May Come" it is based on research into afterlife. In this film whatever the mental state of a person was, was exactly what they got in the afterlife. People who were depressed and in pain, got depression and pain exaggerated many times over.

Consider these other perspectives before you ever consider taking your life. If Hinduism and NDE reports are right, then you could be condemning yourself to even more pain and suffering.

 

[justpino]

suraj-

i'm not looking into taking my own life. it just seems that in these troubled times where so many are suffering emotionally/physically/missing their love/alone, etc.... why wouldn't they put their faith into something that tells them to believe how great it is, and as long as you do your good deeds here, why cannot lead you to the path into the next level?

 

[Surya Deva]

The world is a place of suffering. However, your inner world is a place of love, you can reach that world anytime and anywhere you go. One simply needs to change their perspective and they will be there.

 

[Draka]

First off, you can't sell your soul for a couple reasons. One being that the devil doesn't exist to sell it to, the other being that the soul is not something you own, but it is who you are. The body is merely a vehicle for it and not you at all.

As for suicide...well, that's like quitting a class in school because you think it is either too hard or too much work. Problem is, you have to have that class and learn the lessons it teaches in order to graduate. Until you pass it you are doomed to repeat it until you get that passing grade. Thing is, you keep quitting and the teacher isn't going to let you just keep doing that with no repercussions. They will make it more and more difficult for you to really make sure you are learning exactly what you have to. No one's going to take it easy on a quitter. So quitting only ends up making it worse for you. You commit suicide and you are just reborn into another life to learn what you must, and there is nothing that says that the next is going to be any easier, in fact, it is most likely to be worse because now you have to prove that you can persevere.

 

[justpino]

draka - i guess that depends on what you believe. if you believe in reincarnation, then yes, you will be born again. as for catholicism, each person has their own soul (even those that are miscarried or aborted). so in affect, if you die, you go someplace, but not back to earth for "round 2".

 

[LuisDantas]

for those who have a spiritual belief or an honest answer, i was wondering what your thoughts were...

which is worse:

selling your soul to the devil to get what you want

OR

committing suicide

i know from what i am taught, both are bad, but is one more of a mortal sin than the other?

Speaking as someone who does not believe in the devil's literal existence, I would say that it depends entirely on the circunstances, and that you probably should try and focus on making the question unneeded to begin with.

In some ways it sounds a bit like choosing between two diseases. Although, truth be told, I am not personally all that critical of suicide. But since very few people wouldn't be hurting someone by commiting it, it shall be avoided.

 

[gnomon]

Speaking for myself, I would choose selling my soul.

It would be a bargain for nothing.

On a more serious note I'll just keep my mouth shut except to state that I'm happy that most help available to someone considering suicide does not follow any of the above.

 

[Draka]

draka - i guess that depends on what you believe. if you believe in reincarnation, then yes, you will be born again. as for catholicism, each person has their own soul (even those that are miscarried or aborted). so in affect, if you die, you go someplace, but not back to earth for "round 2".

Who are you then if not your spirit/soul? Who is it that is in possession of the soul? And if it is something that can be possessed then what is it? And what are you?

Many have also said that it is not you that owns a soul, but god. Therefore, whatever you think your soul is, you cannot sell it for it does not belong to you to sell.