• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

a topic that has been on my mind lately in regards to the soul...

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Who are you then if not your spirit/soul? Who is it that is in possession of the soul? And if it is something that can be possessed then what is it? And what are you?

Many have also said that it is not you that owns a soul, but god. Therefore, whatever you think your soul is, you cannot sell it for it does not belong to you to sell.


Draka dear, let me talk to you abeit about the soul. Per se, there is no such a thing as soul. Soul is the combination of the body with the breath of life, which some people call it spirit. Therefore, as long as we are alive we are living souls. At death though, the body goes to the dust. (Oh gosh, I hate to be talking like this with you)
and the breath of life goes, metaphorically, back to God, in the sense that it mingles back with the wind. At this separation the combination is undone and the soul is non-existent. Therefore, soul is not something that is possessed or exists as an entity apart from that living combination.

Ben :drool:
 

justpino

New Member
kinda bring this full circle, i think, just a bit... what if the person is completely happy and wants to go to Heaven right now because they want to be with God?
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
kinda bring this full circle, i think, just a bit... what if the person is completely happy and wants to go to Heaven right now because they want to be with God?


That's too bad because this person would be perishing for lack of knowledge according to Hosea 4:6. The only Heaven available to this person would be the grave. To be with God, this person would be better off sharing his or her happiness with others here on earth.

Ben;)
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Ben said:
Draka dear, let me talk to you abeit about the soul. Per se, there is no such a thing as soul. Soul is the combination of the body with the breath of life, which some people call it spirit. Therefore, as long as we are alive we are living souls. At death though, the body goes to the dust. (Oh gosh, I hate to be talking like this with you)
and the breath of life goes, metaphorically, back to God, in the sense that it mingles back with the wind. At this separation the combination is undone and the soul is non-existent. Therefore, soul is not something that is possessed or exists as an entity apart from that living combination.

Ben :drool:

Well, my point is that the soul is not something that can be owned to sell anyway. On that we agree.

As for the body going to dust...well, why shouldn't it? I agree with you there too. Technically mine will be ash when I'm done with it. It is merely a physical vehicle for my existence. It is the only one I have for this lifetime, so I want to keep it in healthy shape while I'm here, but it's not something to revere once I'm dead.

I prefer to use the word spirit rather than soul, but I really don't distinguish between the two terms much. In my belief, we are our spirits. The spark of life, of consciousness, that defines us as individual, is the spirit. Once the body dies the spirit moves on. Spirit is a form of energy/essence. As energy never ends, just transfers from one form to another, so do we as well.

kinda bring this full circle, i think, just a bit... what if the person is completely happy and wants to go to Heaven right now because they want to be with God?


If they are completely happy then why would they want to leave before their natural time to go? That doesn't make sense. Why would they be impatient to leave if they are having such a happy and blessed life? Not to mention, that killing themselves certainly isn't going to get them where they want to go. It would only delay reaching their destination.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Well, my point is that the soul is not something that can be owned to sell anyway. On that we agree.

As for the body going to dust...well, why shouldn't it? I agree with you there too. Technically mine will be ash when I'm done with it. It is merely a physical vehicle for my existence. It is the only one I have for this lifetime, so I want to keep it in healthy shape while I'm here, but it's not something to revere once I'm dead.

I prefer to use the word spirit rather than soul, but I really don't distinguish between the two terms much. In my belief, we are our spirits. The spark of life, of consciousness, that defines us as individual, is the spirit. Once the body dies the spirit moves on. Spirit is a form of energy/essence. As energy never ends, just transfers from one form to another, so do we as well.




If they are completely happy then why would they want to leave before their natural time to go? That doesn't make sense. Why would they be impatient to leave if they are having such a happy and blessed life? Not to mention, that killing themselves certainly isn't going to get them where they want to go. It would only delay reaching their destination.


I can't help detecting here a tendency in you to grant personality to the spirit or breath of life, as if it will perpetuate its existence somewhere else. If I am reading
too much into it, I apologize but the point I am trying to convey is that with death nothing is left or transferred. It's really the end.

Ben:confused:
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
I can't help detecting here a tendency in you to grant personality to the spirit or breath of life, as if it will perpetuate its existence somewhere else. If I am reading
too much into it, I apologize but the point I am trying to convey is that with death nothing is left or transferred. It's really the end.

Ben:confused:

It's the end of the body and the person we knew ourselves to be, but not the end of our essence. Our spiritual energy doesn't stop existing, it merely transfers from one form to another. Instead of the astral self being linked to the physical it is not linked anymore. It will eventually be again as per reincarnation.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
It's the end of the body and the person we knew ourselves to be, but not the end of our essence. Our spiritual energy doesn't stop existing, it merely transfers from one form to another. Instead of the astral self being linked to the physical it is not linked anymore. It will eventually be again as per reincarnation.


That's exoteric mysticism that butters no bread.
And so is reincarnation which is proof of nothing.
Sorry to be talking like this to the most beautiful avatar I have ever seen.

Ben:drool:
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
That's exoteric mysticism that butters no bread.
And so is reincarnation which is proof of nothing.
Sorry to be talking like this to the most beautiful avatar I have ever seen.

Ben:drool:


Whatever you want to call it it butters my bread quite nicely.
If reincarnation exists (and it does) then it indeed proves something. It proves there is something of us that moves on into a new life.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Whatever you want to call it it butters my bread quite nicely.
If reincarnation exists (and it does) then it indeed proves something. It proves there is something of us that moves on into a new life.


Evidences! Where are they? I would give half of my kingdom for evidences to your
words. You have blinded myself to the evidences if they exist at all.

Ben:drool:
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Evidences! Where are they? I would give half of my kingdom for evidences to your
words. You have blinded myself to the evidences if they exist at all.

Ben:drool:


I have to go out for a while (errands to run, bills to pay) so I will be back later. I will, however, leave you with these...what is Deja Vu? and why do people have unexplained phobias that tie to no traumatic experience in their life whatsoever?
 

Minister_E

Member
hmmmm......selling your soul to the Devil biblically is disobeying the first commandment... You should have noi God's before me....selling your soul in the first place you can't do b/c how can you sell something that doesnt belong to you...

Some would argue that sin is sin I completely agree but when selling your soul to the devil you then are taking him as your God (correct me if Im wrong) so you broke God's #1 rule that is the ONLY sin he says that is worse then any other....

So selling your soul why

#1 it doesnt belong to you
#2 you are giving up on God cause as we know prayer can make thigs happen...even if you just want something real bad
#3 If the devil has your soul he's got everything he wants from you
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
I have to go out for a while (errands to run, bills to pay) so I will be back later. I will, however, leave you with these...what is Deja Vu? and why do people have unexplained phobias that tie to no traumatic experience in their life whatsoever?


Deja Vu are experiences, visual or otherwise, which happen in the lives of people, especially in childhood, and get filed away into the subconscious to pop up in dreams
and in the conscious life every time a familiar environment presents to ourselves, or
even as we meet with people whom we just can't remember to have seen before. But everything of this world and nothing supernatural.

Regarding unexplained phobias, they are PTD (post traumatic disorders) on a light scale as a result of traumas suffered during childhood, which have escaped the memory of the adult. Also everything of this life. Nothing to do with before or after death. I am sorry to contradict your espectations.

Ben:D
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Deja Vu are experiences, visual or otherwise, which happen in the lives of people, especially in childhood, and get filed away into the subconscious to pop up in dreams
and in the conscious life every time a familiar environment presents to ourselves, or
even as we meet with people whom we just can't remember to have seen before. But everything of this world and nothing supernatural.

I'm sorry, but your explanation doesn't cut it at all. Both my mother and I have personally experienced deja vu's that could not be explained from anything in this lifetime. In places we have never been before in our lives, even when very young, and know where things were and actions that took place, even conversations we could not possibly know about, yet we have been accurate.

For example, as a young child, my mother was on a family vacation with her parents driving through a town they had never been to before at all. My mother told my grandparents of a small church in the town, where it was, and even something about the bell (I can't remember that bit). They, out of curiousity, went that direction, found the church she described, and it all checked out. There was no way my mother could have known the location or appearance of some random small church in a town she had never been in by your explanation.

Regarding unexplained phobias, they are PTD (post traumatic disorders) on a light scale as a result of traumas suffered during childhood, which have escaped the memory of the adult. Also everything of this life. Nothing to do with before or after death. I am sorry to contradict your espectations.

Ben:D

Um, Unexplained means unexplained. Not connected to any trauma suffered in this life. There are children, young children, that have irrational fears of things they have never dealt with. So how could it be something attributed to childhood? I, personally, have had a phobia that I had as a very young child that could not be found to have any rational cause. It has gotten much better with age and it's not much an issue now at all.


Point is, these things, which may well have some rational explanations for some of them, cannot all be easily explained by anything within this lifetime. Leaving them as hang-overs from previous lives.

I find it almost amusing that some people try so desperately hard to make sure that everything in this world is scientifically explained away, no matter how much the explanation may be reaching or lacking. I often wonder what is so frightening about even considering that some things may, indeed, be beyond our science, and therefore, beyond this physical world. The possiblity is very real, so why are some so afraid to, at the very least, admit that?
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but your explanation doesn't cut it at all. Both my mother and I have personally experienced deja vu's that could not be explained from anything in this lifetime. In places we have never been before in our lives, even when very young, and know where things were and actions that took place, even conversations we could not possibly know about, yet we have been accurate.

For example, as a young child, my mother was on a family vacation with her parents driving through a town they had never been to before at all. My mother told my grandparents of a small church in the town, where it was, and even something about the bell (I can't remember that bit). They, out of curiousity, went that direction, found the church she described, and it all checked out. There was no way my mother could have known the location or appearance of some random small church in a town she had never been in by your explanation.



Um, Unexplained means unexplained. Not connected to any trauma suffered in this life. There are children, young children, that have irrational fears of things they have never dealt with. So how could it be something attributed to childhood? I, personally, have had a phobia that I had as a very young child that could not be found to have any rational cause. It has gotten much better with age and it's not much an issue now at all.


Point is, these things, which may well have some rational explanations for some of them, cannot all be easily explained by anything within this lifetime. Leaving them as hang-overs from previous lives.

I find it almost amusing that some people try so desperately hard to make sure that everything in this world is scientifically explained away, no matter how much the explanation may be reaching or lacking. I often wonder what is so frightening about even considering that some things may, indeed, be beyond our science, and therefore, beyond this physical world. The possiblity is very real, so why are some so afraid to, at the very least, admit that?


Draka, Deja Vu can also happen from memories accumulated in the subconscious from scenes, pictures, and even dreams, when you can find no way to remember,
even at the moment you are within the environs. The subconscious allows consciousness only of images but not the memory of the experience you had long ago, or even fairly recently.

Regarding the phobias, almost the same pattern is followed. Only that here, by way of hypnosis, if you are provoked to go back in time to the point you can't remember
and identify the cause of the phobia, you will return without it. I mean, cured of it. The point I am trying to convey is that this is the 21st Century when Scientifically almost every question can find a natural answer. So, wake up honey and I'll bring you the coffee in bed. As you smell it, I am sure you will snap out of the Middle Age.

Ben:drool:
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Draka, Deja Vu can also happen from memories accumulated in the subconscious from scenes, pictures, and even dreams, when you can find no way to remember,
even at the moment you are within the environs. The subconscious allows consciousness only of images but not the memory of the experience you had long ago, or even fairly recently.

You already said as much Ben, and I'm not denying that can be the case with some experiences. It still, however, doesn't address anything I said. Until you can explain how someone can know the exact location and physical decription of something in a place they have most assuredly never been nor seen pictures of or anything like that (perhaps never even heard of), I'm talking no way of having any prior knowledge whatsoever, then you completely fail to even touch addressing what I am referring to.

Regarding the phobias, almost the same pattern is followed. Only that here, by way of hypnosis, if you are provoked to go back in time to the point you can't remember
and identify the cause of the phobia, you will return without it. I mean, cured of it. The point I am trying to convey is that this is the 21st Century when Scientifically almost every question can find a natural answer. So, wake up honey and I'll bring you the coffee in bed. As you smell it, I am sure you will snap out of the Middle Age.

Ben:drool:

I am definitely not in the Middle Ages. And you keep failing to understand what I am telling you. You seem to think that everything can easily be scientifically explained. It can't. There are questions that have no answers within the scientific community. For those who try to come up with them anyway they usually come out sounding even more absurd than any supernatural explanation. I tell you that people can have phobias with no cause to trigger them and you say they must be there. How do you know? Can you do flawless regressions of every person that has a phobia? No? I thought not. How do I know it's possible to have these unexplained phobias? I gaurantee I have dealt with a phobia in my life that has no basis from anything in my life. I can go as far back as I can remember and through my parents as well. Believe me, if there was an incident that would have caused this strange fear of mine there would have been some trauma someone would have definitely remembered. You can brush this off all you like, but I know my life.

Can I prove to you the existence of reincarnation? Of course not. It's not something with tangible evidence one can provide another. Has it been proven to me? Yes. Because I have experienced several types of evidence. You don't have to believe in it and I really don't care if you do. I merely try to point out to you that an open mind would be a boon for you.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
You already said as much Ben, and I'm not denying that can be the case with some experiences. It still, however, doesn't address anything I said. Until you can explain how someone can know the exact location and physical decription of something in a place they have most assuredly never been nor seen pictures of or anything like that (perhaps never even heard of), I'm talking no way of having any prior knowledge whatsoever, then you completely fail to even touch addressing what I am referring to.

+++Ben: - I guess I might as well give in and let you win this one. Perhaps you are right after all. There are reasons that sometimes even Reason ignores.

I am definitely not in the Middle Ages. And you keep failing to understand what I am telling you. You seem to think that everything can easily be scientifically explained. It can't. There are questions that have no answers within the scientific community. For those who try to come up with them anyway they usually come out sounding even more absurd than any supernatural explanation. I tell you that people can have phobias with no cause to trigger them and you say they must be there. How do you know? Can you do flawless regressions of every person that has a phobia? No? I thought not. How do I know it's possible to have these unexplained phobias? I gaurantee I have dealt with a phobia in my life that has no basis from anything in my life. I can go as far back as I can remember and through my parents as well. Believe me, if there was an incident that would have caused this strange fear of mine there would have been some trauma someone would have definitely remembered. You can brush this off all you like, but I know my life.

+++Ben: - It's possible to use hypnosis for regression of every person who has a phobia. Flawless... not 100 percent, but I have dealt with a lot of cases that proved successful. You don't have to remember what happened in the long ago time of your childhood. Sometimes a very silly thing in our standards of today might have caused
a trauma which chain-reacted into the formation of a phobia in adulthood. But then again, there is an exception to all rules. Yours could be one of them.

Can I prove to you the existence of reincarnation? Of course not. It's not something with tangible evidence one can provide another. Has it been proven to me? Yes. Because I have experienced several types of evidence. You don't have to believe in it and I really don't care if you do. I merely try to point out to you that an open mind would be a boon for you.

+++Ben: - Would you agree with me that fixation on the supernatural could be a Psychological trace of the personality? Are you a religious person, Draka? Not that it has much to do with the subject, but it would somehow help me see you through from a better angle. I hope you won't feel offended. I would hate myself to make you
turn that gun towards me. He, he, he! I am talking about your avatar.

My comments come in between your paragraphs above.

Ben:drool:
 
Last edited:
Top