A warning and a call to Baha’is from Baha’u’llah’s Universal House of Justice

[Jim]

What I found they have in common is focus on a single president, bodhisattva, or manifestation to where all opinions and interpretations of The Buddha, Nichiren, or God goes through these people. I never been to a Bahai church, but the other two all the literature is from the main guys as well.

It looks to me like when Baha’is think that way we use the Universal House of Justice for that, at least in theory. Sometimes in practice, the leadership that we actually follow is some local bandwagon. There are also some highly influential celebrities.

 

[Dawnofhope]

@adrian009 @Tony Bristow-Stagg

Before I start discussing the message, I want to post some of my current thoughts and feelings about the issues involved. Part of the context is my vision of the the future, and part of it is the 2002 message from the House of Justice to the world’s religious leaders.

I think that as time goes by, more and more people will learn to value all people everywhere, and care what happens to them, more and more, without devaluing people across imaginary dividing lines. On that topic, recently from a discussion here I had a new insight into that. I think now that religious and anti-religious prejudices go hand in hand with national and race prejudices. Anything we do help free people from one will help free them from the others. Unfortunately that might mean that there’s still a lot more race prejudice than there might appear to be, considering how widely and shamelessly religious and anti-religious prejudices are still being promoted.

However that may be, as I was saying, I think that in the coming decades, more and more people will learn to value all people everywhere, and care what happens to them, more and more, without devaluing people across imaginary dividing lines. I think that eventually that will grow and spread enough that the oppression, vandalism and violence that we’re seeing now will stop increasing and start decreasing. I think that at the same time, governments and other institutions of society will evolve in ways that no one can foresee, to better serve the interests of people who value all people everywhere, and care what happens to them, without devaluing people across imaginary dividing lines.

That’s part of my vision of the future, and part of the context for some of my ideas about what followers of Baha’u’llah can do online about the issues discussed in “One Common Faith.”

Let’s examine one paragraph and I’ll break it down:

In no sense can Bahá’ís profess to have grasped at this early hour more than a minute portion of the truths inherent in the revelation on which their Faith is based. With reference, for example, to the evolution of the Cause, the Guardian said, “All we can reasonably venture to attempt is to strive to obtain a glimpse of the first streaks of the promised Dawn that must, in the fullness of time, chase away the gloom that has encircled humanity.

So as a starting point for interfaith dialogue we are reminded by the Universal House of Justice that we don’t know too much. We are encouraged to acquire a humble posture of learning. My reflection is that we need to be learning from all whom we come in contact with and in no way imagine the truth to be the exclusive domain of Baha’is.

On the other hand we need to understand the perplexity many find in regards the weighty theme of man’s religious experience. With a loss of confidence in traditional religions comes a loss of hope and in some cases despair. Despite only being able to perceive the earliest glimpses of Bahá’u’lláh, we need to cultivate a sufficient understanding that we do not become confused and despondent. To the contrary we should strive for clarity of vision, confidence in Bahá’u’lláh’s vision and genuine happiness.

”Apart from encouraging humility, this fact should serve also as a constant reminder that Bahá’u’lláh has not brought into existence a new religion to stand beside the present multiplicity of sectarian organizations. Rather has He recast the whole conception of religion as the principal force impelling the development of consciousness. As the human race in all its diversity is a single species, so the intervention by which God cultivates the qualities of mind and heart latent in that species is a single process. Its heroes and saints are the heroes and saints of all stages in the struggle; its successes, the successes of all stages.

This is deep and clarifies what is meant by one common faith, that is humanities collective experience of faith from the dawn of civilisation until now. That one faith includes the Baha’i Faith as the latest stage in mankind’s evolution. But we need to develop insights not just into Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation but those that have come beforehand.

This is the standard demonstrated in the life and work of the Master and exemplified today in a Bahá’í community that has become the inheritor of humanity’s entire spiritual legacy, a legacy equally available to all the earth’s peoples.

Abdul-Baha demonstrated a profound understanding of Christianity when he visited America. We need to extend that to include the entirety of mankind’s religious experience. Most of all we need to exemplify the virtues of humility and sincerity as we work with people’s from all backgrounds to build communities and a more inclusive view of what one common faith really means.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Baha'i Faith, and that letter and the "One Common Faith" document don't say that though - they say, in effect, that the other religions are right only to the extent that they agree with the Baha'i perception of truth..

The way I see it, what is being said is they all speak of the same truth, this truth does not cause division and we as humanity, we are to find why we have divided Faith.

I can not see how you can please every person in this process. If every person was going to be pleased to hear this message, then Baha'u'llah would not have faced any persecution or banishment.

We will all face our challenges to find our Unity.

Regards Tony

 

[Marcion]

This is deep and clarifies what is meant by one common faith, that is humanities collective experience of faith from the dawn of civilisation until now. That one faith includes the Baha’i Faith as the latest stage in mankind’s evolution. But we need to develop insights not just into Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation but those that have come beforehand.

The recognition of one common faith or perhaps one common path or even one human 'Dharma' seems to me a very applaudable way of looking at the underlying purpose of the evolution of human civilisation beyond sectarian divisions and confusions.

But why see only the Baha'i Faith or the revelations of Bahá’u’lláh as forming the "latest stage in mankind's evolution"? Did not muslims declare that Muhammed was the final prophet and any later prophets would be imposters? If that was a wrong dogma then why make a similar mistake in closing our mind to the possibility that new "messengers" may have brought even more elevated or more enlightened visions to help humanity broaden and deepen its vision and stenghten human 'Dharma'?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The recognition of one common faith or perhaps one common path or even one human 'Dharma' seems to me a very applaudable way of looking at the underlying purpose of the evolution of human civilisation beyond sectarian divisions and confusions.

But why see only the Baha'i Faith or the revelations of Bahá’u’lláh as forming the "latest stage in mankind's evolution"? Did not muslims declare that Muhammed was the final prophet and any later prophets would be imposters? If that was a wrong dogma then why make a similar mistake in closing to mind to the possibility that new "messengers" may have brought even more elevated or more enlightened visions to help humanity broaden and deepen its vision and stenghten human 'Dharma'?

The observation I would make, is that Baha'u'llah has said, "All men have been created to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization."

I see that our next stage of evolution is a unity of mind of all humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Marcion]

The observation I would make, is that Baha'u'llah has said, "All men have been created to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization."

I see that our next stage of evolution is a unity of mind of all humanity.

That is very visionary, but why assume that Baha'u'llah was the last to have such lofty ideas? Or is it perhaps that Baha'i's have not yet encountered such a personality?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The recognition of one common faith or perhaps one common path or even one human 'Dharma' seems to me a very applaudable way of looking at the underlying purpose of the evolution of human civilisation beyond sectarian divisions and confusions.

But why see only the Baha'i Faith or the revelations of Bahá’u’lláh as forming the "latest stage in mankind's evolution"? Did not muslims declare that Muhammed was the final prophet and any later prophets would be imposters? If that was a wrong dogma then why make a similar mistake in closing to mind to the possibility that new "messengers" may have brought even more elevated or more enlightened visions to help humanity broaden and deepen its vision and stenghten human 'Dharma'?

We all have our differing perspectives and that is fine. Muhammad said He was the seal of the prophets and the Bible declares Jesus as the alpha and omega. These words do not mean another can not manifest the eternal truths. In time another Great Teacher will come after Bahá’u’lláh.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is very visionary, but why assume that Baha'u'llah was the last to have such lofty ideas? Or is it perhaps that Baha'i's have not yet encountered such a personality?

That is a big Question. Baha'u'llah said He is not the last, but the next will be after the expiry of a full 1000 years.

It is a big question, because I can not know when and why God sends His Messengers and why some people have inspiration from those messages and some do not. I also note that many spiritually in tune people are inspired outside of the direct knowledge of the Message, that they are inspired by the lofty ideals because they are receptive.

I guess the best answer is found in other Faiths as well as the Baha'i Faith. When we read those Messages, they also foretell and say why Gods sends His Messengers.

I think we have been given life in such a day, a day when the sun has just risen. The important thing here is it is the same Sun, just a different age. One may say it is the sun risen in this age, at its zenith.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It looks to me like when Baha’is think that way we use the Universal House of Justice for that, at least in theory. Sometimes in practice, the leadership that we actually follow is some local bandwagon. There are also some highly influential celebrities.

If it is anyway similar to the two places I went, distance yourself. Maybe go to a study meeting or something small instead of attending a full sermon (dont know what they call it). I dont worship with my friends anymore because their mindset is very, how can I say it right, I cant think of another word for evangalizing. Its not more that but literally and point bluntly recruiting people insofar to tell others they are wrong. I dont see that in bahai here that directly; but, many god beliefs are like that even in a soft way.

But, other than that, if youre still practicing bahai, distance yourself and do your thing. Its hard given if its what Im familar because the sense of community (JW, Bahai, Catholic, SGI, Shoshu, etc) are pretty tightnit on its followers.

 

[Marcion]

Baha'u'llah said He is not the last, but the next will be after the expiry of a full 1000 years.

I know very little about the teachings of Baha'u'llah although I very much like the universalist aspects that I see reflected here on the forum. If I would know of a personality who is even wiser, more visionary and more universal than Baha'u'llah who lived after Baha'u'llah, then that would mean that even a great visionary like Baha'u'llah was capable of making faulty predictions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But, other than that, if youre still practicing bahai, distance yourself and do your thing. Its hard given if its what Im familar because the sense of community (JW, Bahai, Catholic, SGI, Shoshu, etc) are pretty tightnit on its followers.

Hi hope you are well and happy, its great to chat again.

In a Faith that is striving for Unity, why would that be good advice

What I have found is that Unity is no easy path, it begins to manifest when and only when our own heart will forgive and try to understand why we are faced with such situations.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I know very little about the teachings of Baha'u'llah although I very much like the universalist aspects that I see reflected here on the forum. If I would know of a personality who is even wiser, more visionary and more universal than Baha'u'llah who lived after Baha'u'llah, then that would mean that even a great visionary like Baha'u'llah was capable of making faulty predictions.

That could very well be a conclusion we may consider.

To consider that option, we would have to know what Baha'u'llah said.

Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

In a Faith that is striving for Unity, why would that be good advice

Tony, look at that post of Unveiled Artist again. See what she suggested to do instead of attend large services. Think about it.

 

[Marcion]

That could very well be a conclusion we may consider.

To consider that option, we would have to know what Baha'u'llah said.

Are you suggesting that Baha'u'llah did not after all say that "He is not the last, but the next will be after the expiry of a full 1000 years."?

I find this type of concrete prediction very interesting because it gives me a "handle" to place the founder relative to my own present understanding.
Of course it says very little about the value of the whole body of teachings of such a founder, but it helps in another way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hi hope you are well and happy, its great to chat again.

In a Faith that is striving for Unity, why would that be good advice

What I have found is that Unity is no easy path, it begins to manifest when and only when our own heart will forgive and try to understand why we are faced with such situations.

Regards Tony

Everyone is different; differences are good for unity.

What I believe and my opinions of someone elses faith is not my place to say. My goal is to help others.​

For example, one lady I once knew struggled with homosexual feelings. While Im not anti-homosexual, of course, she is also catholic and we talked about it. I adviced that maybe talk to her priest if some things are uncomfortable and after a good discussion, we never hung out again. Although I disagree, that isnt my point. Its about the other not myself.

SGI strives for unity as well; and, they are, too, well intentioned.

That does not mean everyone fits the mold their type practice. Maybe world peace to the other is more small groups.​

For me, anything big like JW and SGI conventions etc makes me uncomfortable.

Unity supports differences even the ones we disagree with. When we dont think of our own needs for someone else, thats the start of unity.​

So it is good advice for the person who wants to accept it as so. Its not about me.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am sorry that I am unable to talk much at this time. I still have at least 7 hrs of work in front of me.

What I am saying is that a journey in Faith requires hard decisions about ones view and way of life and as such is a great bounty. Before we start the journey we are told that it will not be easy.

There are many ways of describing this.

Regards Tony

Yes indeed it does. require hard decisions. 'Bounty' is outside my personal paradigm though. Hard decisions are just part of life, and we all make them.

 

[Vinayaka]

I mean how can you be sincere about disapproving of the divisiveness between religions if you don't disapprove of the concept of so-called 'religions' in the first place?

Differences don't have to be divisive at all, and most often aren't. For most of us, diversity is a reason to celebrate.

 

[Vinayaka]

Is John Walbridge estranged? His works are so clear and easy to read.

No idea. Maybe a Baha'i here knows.

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course - and I don't really blame them for that because I think we all think our idea of "truth" is correct - otherwise we would change our idea.

I disagree, partly. I think it's obvious that we all think our view is correct for us personally. But the big problem you so eloquently allude to is when we extrapolate that into 'for all humanity'. And this is what causes so much pain.

I, for one, definitely don't think my view or faith or practice would suit everyone, In fact, I'd advise some people to avoid it like the plague. Whenever I host newcomers to our temple, I like to get a feel for their religious background. If they're strongly entrenched in an Abrahamic faith, I tell them very little. It causes way too much discomfort and confusion for them. It's bad enough that Abrahamics cause divorces by conversion, let alone us joining that horrid practice. So actions supersede philosophical convictions for me.

 

[paarsurrey]

Of course - and I don't really blame them for that because I think we all think our idea of "truth" is correct - otherwise we would change our idea. The problem is not that they think they are right, its that they think there is only one way of being right. I don't see how a genuine "interfaith dialogue" can work on that basis. Its a bit like trying to convince the six blind men if Hindustan that they were all wrong about the nature of the elephant, it just isn't going to work. What you need is a way of saying (a way of seeing) that they are all right in different ways. The Baha'i Faith, and that letter and the "One Common Faith" document don't say that though - they say, in effect, that the other religions are right only to the extent that they agree with the Baha'i perception of truth. That's just not the same thing at all - and whilst it is a perfectly understandable religious position - it is not a sound basis for eliminating religious disharmony as far as I can tell. But it is a problem with the "revealed" religions - how can they possibly accept that someone else who sees it differently can possibly be right when they have God's very word on the matter?

"But it is a problem with the "revealed" religions - how can they possibly accept that someone else who sees it differently can possibly be right when they have God's very word on the matter?" Unquote

Among others there is a possibility that one understands the Word of God incorrectly. Right, please?
Regards