A Woman's Body - How Should We Limit Her Right To Do As She Pleases?

[Revoltingest]

Thinking back on all the rancorous arguing over a woman's right to an abortion, I recall seeing little attention paid to limits which even many feminists would impose upon women. So, fellow posters, what legal restrictions would you place upon what women can do with their bodies.
1) Can they sell their organs?
2) Can they rent out their bodies for sex?
3) Can they do things when pregnant which would cause a deformed child?
4) Can they commit suicide?
5) Can they get cosmetic surgery?
6) Can they act in porn?
7) Can they act in degrading porn?
8) Can they have surgery to become male?
9) Can they abort a fetus up thru....let's say 3 months?
10) Can they abort a fetus after it becomes viable outside the womb?
11) _______________________ <--- Your question here!

I say yes to all except #3 & #10.
Regarding #3, unless the fetus is to be aborted, to carry a child imposes a duty to avoid harming it.
Regarding #10, I see that prohibiting abortion of a fetus which is viable outside the womb is not so much about morality, but rather a limitation which serves a peaceful (but uneasy) compromise between pro-choice & pro-life advocates. The woman will have the choice of an abortion for a reasonable period, but society avoids seeing immature babies either killed or delivered in a health compromised state.

Additional questions:
A) Should non-feminists be allowed a say in this?
B) Should men be allowed a say in this?
C) Does everyone get a say?
I pick "Yes" for C.

Rules:
- No comments about fat old white men.
- No comments about how unhot feminist activists are.
That should keep things relatively civil!

Now, argue away, people!

 

[crossfire]

Thinking back on all the rancorous arguing over a woman's right to an abortion, I recall seeing little attention paid to limits which even many feminists would impose upon women. So, fellow posters, what legal restrictions would you place upon what women can do with their bodies.
1) Can they sell their organs?
2) Can they rent out their bodies for sex?
3) Can they do things when pregnant which would cause a deformed child?
4) Can they commit suicide?
5) Can they get cosmetic surgery?
6) Can they act in porn?
7) Can they act in degrading porn?
8) Can they have surgery to become male?
9) Can they abort a fetus up thru....let's say 3 months?
10) Can they abort a fetus after it becomes viable outside the womb?
11) _______________________ <--- Your question here!

I say yes to all except #3 & #10.
Regarding #3, unless the fetus is to be aborted, to carry a child imposes a duty to avoid harming it.
Regarding #10, I see that prohibiting abortion of a fetus which is viable outside the womb is not so much about morality, but rather a limitation which serves a peaceful (but uneasy) compromise between pro-choice & pro-life advocates. The woman will have the choice of an abortion for a reasonable period, but society avoids seeing immature babies either killed or delivered in a health compromised state.

Now, argue away, people!

I have serious reservations regarding #1, for anyone, be they male, female, adult, or child.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Interesting. I would say that women can do as they damn well please, and men should be able to do what they want as well with their own bodies.

It's stupid that suicide is illegal. It just penalizes the traumatized families.

 

[Sea Monkey]

Thinking back on all the rancorous arguing over a woman's right to an abortion, I recall seeing little attention paid to limits which even many feminists would impose upon women. So, fellow posters, what legal restrictions would you place upon what women can do with their bodies.
1) Can they sell their organs?
2) Can they rent out their bodies for sex?
3) Can they do things when pregnant which would cause a deformed child?
4) Can they commit suicide?
5) Can they get cosmetic surgery?
6) Can they act in porn?
7) Can they act in degrading porn?
8) Can they have surgery to become male?
9) Can they abort a fetus up thru....let's say 3 months?
10) Can they abort a fetus after it becomes viable outside the womb?
11) _______________________ <--- Your question here!

I say yes to all except #3 & #10.
Regarding #3, unless the fetus is to be aborted, to carry a child imposes a duty to avoid harming it.
Regarding #10, I see that prohibiting abortion of a fetus which is viable outside the womb is not so much about morality, but rather a limitation which serves a peaceful (but uneasy) compromise between pro-choice & pro-life advocates. The woman will have the choice of an abortion for a reasonable period, but society avoids seeing immature babies either killed or delivered in a health compromised state.

Now, argue away, people!

I say yes to all execpt for number 3 and 10. I am kind of unsure on number 7. I personally would not want to see a woman acting in a degrading porno film.

 

[Revoltingest]

Interesting. I would say that women can do as they damn well please, and men should be able to do what they want as well with their own bodies.

It's stupid that suicide is illegal. It just penalizes the traumatized families.

Re #3: Any thoughts about a mother excessively drinking, & causing fetal alcohol syndrome?

I say that during pregnancy, getting falling down drunk becomes the father's responsibility.

Hey, you've been away for a while. Working or getting your drink on?

 

[Revoltingest]

I have serious reservations regarding #1, for anyone, be they male, female, adult, or child.

Certainly, most of the issues apply to both genders. And as the wonderful world of science advances, perhaps every issue will apply to all of us. Feel free to also consider males wherever you find it interesting.

 

[crossfire]

I have serious reservations regarding #1, for anyone, be they male, female, adult, or child.

Certainly, most of the issues apply to both genders. And as the wonderful world of science advances, perhaps every issue will apply to all of us. Feel free to also consider males wherever you find it interesting.

One reason why I'm against #1: local story from a few years ago:

Brains And Medical Records Collected by King County | www.kirotv.com

The county government was making money selling human brains, and using deceptive tactics by which to do so! I don't know about you, but I'd rather have the government see me (or anyone else) as being worth more alive than dead.

 

[idea]

what legal restrictions would you place upon what women can do with their bodies.

The same legal restrictions that apply to men - it should be illegal to use your body to cause harm or injury to others.

 

[Apex]

1) Can they sell their organs?

Yes

2) Can they rent out their bodies for sex?

Yes

3) Can they do things when pregnant which would cause a deformed child?

No

4) Can they commit suicide?

Yes

5) Can they get cosmetic surgery?

Yes

6) Can they act in porn?

Yes

7) Can they act in degrading porn?

Yes

8) Can they have surgery to become male?

Yes

9) Can they abort a fetus up thru....let's say 3 months?

Would rather abortion only be allowed in medical situations. If you have sex, you should be prepared for the consequences. No birth control is 100% effective. Although, with that said, I think the only way this would work is if all medical expenses related to child birth were covered 100% (which should be the case anyways). So until that happens, 3 months is good.

10) Can they abort a fetus after it becomes viable outside the womb?

No

 

[Alceste]

I have no problem with any of these except 1, 3 and 10.

1. I am generally opposed to the wealthy being able to buy preferential health care treatment. I think everyone has a right to medically necessary treatment, free at the point of service, and that includes access to donated organs.

3. I think pregnant women who intend to carry it through to delivery have a moral obligation to maintain good health to give the child the best possible start in life. I'm opposed to Legal obligation, except the possibility of losing custody of the child if the mother is unable to care for it.

10. If a fetus is viable outside the womb, I prefer induced labour to abortion, to give the child a chance to survive. I view this as a question of medical ethics and not a legal question.

As to who gets to decide, the person whose body it is gets to decide what to do with it, and nobody else gets a say, except when their assistance is requested to do whatever it is a woman wants to do. Then it is a matter of their own conscience, and they should not be compelled to do anything they object to simply because a woman wants it done. (Exemptions apply for my husband declogging the bathroom sink).

 

[Me Myself]

Thinking back on all the rancorous arguing over a woman's right to an abortion, I recall seeing little attention paid to limits which even many feminists would impose upon women. So, fellow posters, what legal restrictions would you place upon what women can do with their bodies.
1) Can they sell their organs?
2) Can they rent out their bodies for sex?
3) Can they do things when pregnant which would cause a deformed child?
4) Can they commit suicide?
5) Can they get cosmetic surgery?
6) Can they act in porn?
7) Can they act in degrading porn?
8) Can they have surgery to become male?
9) Can they abort a fetus up thru....let's say 3 months?
10) Can they abort a fetus after it becomes viable outside the womb?
11) _______________________ <--- Your question here!

I say yes to all except #3 & #10.
Regarding #3, unless the fetus is to be aborted, to carry a child imposes a duty to avoid harming it.
Regarding #10, I see that prohibiting abortion of a fetus which is viable outside the womb is not so much about morality, but rather a limitation which serves a peaceful (but uneasy) compromise between pro-choice & pro-life advocates. The woman will have the choice of an abortion for a reasonable period, but society avoids seeing immature babies either killed or delivered in a health compromised state.

Additional questions:
A) Should non-feminists be allowed a say in this?
B) Should men be allowed a say in this?
C) Does everyone get a say?
I pick "Yes" for C.

Rules:
- No comments about fat old white men.
- No comments about how unhot feminist activists are.
That should keep things relatively civil!

Now, argue away, people!

They can only sell the body parts that are sexy and they can only sell them to fat old white...uh... Owls.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Re #3: Any thoughts about a mother excessively drinking, & causing fetal alcohol syndrome?

I say that during pregnancy, getting falling down drunk becomes the father's responsibility.

Hey, you've been away for a while. Working or getting your drink on?

I don't think that we should solve the problem by making it illegal -- I mean, how would we enforce that kind of law without severely limiting personal liberty?

Spending money on edification -- voluntary participation in education and advertising campaigns, for example -- are better than criminalizing the the action IMHO.

 

[Quintessence]

1) Can they sell their organs?
--> If any human has adequate agency to provide consent, yes. It's kind of ridiculous to suggest someone not get paid for having major surgery that is doing a service to someone other than themselves.
2) Can they rent out their bodies for sex?
--> If any human has adequate agency to provide consent, yes. In the context of employers, they have an ethical obligation to consider the welfare of their employees.
3) Can they do things when pregnant which would cause a deformed child?
--> Honestly, there is such a broad range of things that could cause a "deformed child" that a law for this is is completely untenable. Proving that a specific behavior caused anything would be next to impossible, making enforcement also next to impossible. But sure, let's say no to this and watch the proverbial witch hunt against any woman who happens to give birth to a "deformed child" (whatever that means... eugenics anyone?).
4) Can they commit suicide?
--> Any human with sufficient agency has the right to end their life when they see fit, preferably with arrangements made for dependents and their estate.
5) Can they get cosmetic surgery?
--> Any human with sufficient agency has the right to waste money on pointless surgical procedures.
6) Can they act in porn?
--> Any human who meets employment requirements of their area and isn't a minor can seek whatever types of employment they wish.
7) Can they act in degrading porn?
-- > Any human who meets employment requirements of their area and isn't a minor can seek whatever types of employment they wish.
8) Can they have surgery to become male?
--> Any human with sufficient agency can have any sort of cosmetic surgery they wish, though at least this one might not be entirely pointless.
9) Can they abort a fetus up thru....let's say 3 months?
--> Yes
10) Can they abort a fetus after it becomes viable outside the womb?
--> Yes; "viable outside the womb" is a poor benchmark given the preponderance of early delivery pregnancies that would have bitten the dust even a few decades ago.
11) Is a person's physical sex irrelevant for most of the questions above?
--> Yes, because they don't pertain specifically to human reproductive anatomy and therefore are nonspecific to a human's sex.

 

[BSM1]

Yes to all except #3. I agree with Alceste on this one. However I would wonder who or what parameters would determine the mother's ability to care for a child.

As for #10, if you're going to be pro-choice--darn it--be pro-choice.

 

[Quintessence]

Yes to all except #3. I agree with Alceste on this one. However I would wonder who or what parameters would determine the mother's ability to care for a child.

I wonder how in the blazes we are going to establish causality for any specific behavior "caused" the "deformity" in the first place. It's simply untenable.

Seriously guys, think about this for a second. Think about how we can actually prove that any behavior, beyond a reasonable doubt, caused a particular "deformity."

Every 4.5 minutes, a baby is born with a birth defect. Major birth defects are conditions present at birth that cause structural changes in one or more parts of the body. They can have a serious, adverse effect on health, development, or functional ability.

About one in every 33 babies is born with a birth defect. Birth defects are a leading cause of infant death, accounting for more than 1 of every 5 infant deaths.2 In addition, babies born with birth defects have a greater chance of illness and long term disability than babies without birth defects.

Most birth defects are thought to be caused by a complex mix of factors. These factors include our genes, our behaviors, and things in the environment. For some birth defects, we know the cause. But for most, we don&#8217;t.

*source*

 

[Revoltingest]

The same legal restrictions that apply to men - it should be illegal to use your body to cause harm or injury to others.

The difference is that we menfolk don't physically harm anyone else merely by ingesting drugs
or alcohol (setting aside the possibility of doing something wrong while under the influence).
But of course, the general principle would still apply....just hypothetically for now.

 

[Revoltingest]

One reason why I'm against #1: local story from a few years ago:
Brains And Medical Records Collected by King County | www.kirotv.com
The county government was making money selling human brains, and using deceptive tactics by which to do so! I don't know about you, but I'd rather have the government see me (or anyone else) as being worth more alive than dead.

Your concern is tailor made for me! By making it legal to sell our organs, the increased supply would cause prices to plummet, thereby mitigating the risk of being worth more dead than alive.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think that we should solve the problem by making it illegal -- I mean, how would we enforce that kind of law without severely limiting personal liberty?

I agree that it would be very difficult, & perhaps unworkable. But ignoring the problems if enforcement, what do you think about the ethics of the right of a woman to do something resulting in damage to the eventual child?
We'll have to cogitate some to work out how this would be incorporated into public policy.

Spending money on edification -- voluntary participation in education and advertising campaigns, for example -- are better than criminalizing the the action IMHO.

I agree again.
Let's not make this a pattern, bub!

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder how in the blazes we are going to establish causality for any specific behavior "caused" the "deformity" in the first place. It's simply untenable.
Seriously guys, think about this for a second. Think about how we can actually prove that any behavior, beyond a reasonable doubt, caused a particular "deformity".

There would be practical difficulties. I'd expect that there would be certain patterns which are addressable, & many which would not be. Consider fetal alcohol syndrome.
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If concerned citizens notice a mother is abusing alcohol, & report this abuse, the authorities would have a clear link between the behavior & the established terrible result for the child. It could be worth it for the state to step in & ensure the abuse ceases. Would this be difficult & expensive? Would it result in curtailing the usual liberties of the mother? Yes & yes. But consider the life long suffering of the child which could be avoided. Rights in conflict need to be balanced somehow.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

1) Can they sell their organs?
2) Can they rent out their bodies for sex?
3) Can they do things when pregnant which would cause a deformed child?
4) Can they commit suicide?
5) Can they get cosmetic surgery?
6) Can they act in porn?
7) Can they act in degrading porn?
8) Can they have surgery to become male?
9) Can they abort a fetus up thru....let's say 3 months?
10) Can they abort a fetus after it becomes viable outside the womb?
11) _______________________ <--- Your question here!

There seems to be a theme, but 1,3 and 10 are the main ones I have issue with.
I'm not sold on 1 being a No, but my gut reaction is no (for all people). There are a lot of issues I'd have to think on, and educate myself more on before having a definitive opinion. Call it no for now.
3 is hard to legislate against, and I'm not sure that it's a good idea to try. But morally, it behooves a woman to take reasonable care of themselves whilst pregnant, in relation to the child.
10...I'm more for induced labour, as a general rule. I can see situations (eg. gross deformity) where it might be better to abort though, so I wouldn't quite call it a blanket. Let's say they can abort after viability only if based on medical reasoning.

Additional questions:
A) Should non-feminists be allowed a say in this?
B) Should men be allowed a say in this?
C) Does everyone get a say?

I'd go C, in terms of determining the rules within society. I'd go C with ALL rules within society. It's everyone's society.

Rules:
- No comments about fat old white men.
- No comments about how unhot feminist activists are.
That should keep things relatively civil!

Given the clearly oppressive environment you've set up for this discussion, I'll have to end my input there...lol