A womans breast=A mans penis?

[Storm]

While they may not be needed in the more progressive societies where milk substitutes are available, they are certainly needed to nourish babies in the more primitive ones. Then there's the fact that most males find females with no, or very small, breasts less attractive than those with more normal size breasts.

And formula feeding is inferior. People tout the "benefits" of breastmilk all the time, but I think they're looking from the wrong angle.

 

[Skwim]

And formula feeding is inferior. People tout the "benefits" of breastmilk all the time, but I think they're looking from the wrong angle.

Speaking of substitutes for the natural, what's your take on breast augmentation, implants or otherwise?

 

[Storm]

Speaking of substitutes for the natural, what's your take on breast augmentation, implants or otherwise?

Whoa, random!

I don't care for implants, myself. Not familiar with other forms of augmentation, unless you mean something like a WonderBra.

That said, I wouldn't mind a bit more up top myself (and a bit less just beneath), but most of us would tweak a feature or two, given the chance.

 

[Skwim]

Whoa, random!

I don't care for implants, myself. Not familiar with other forms of augmentation, unless you mean something like a WonderBra.

If that's a padded or inflatable bra, yeah. Then there's just stuffing a bra with tissue paper or whatever (something I unexpectedly ran across one evening).

That said, I wouldn't mind a bit more up top myself (and a bit less just beneath), but most of us would tweak a feature or two, given the chance.

Absolutely! And even more than two.

 

[Storm]

If that's a padded or inflatable bra, yeah. Then there's just stuffing a bra with tissue paper or whatever (something I unexpectedly ran across one evening).

Well, as a woman, even a bi woman who loves breasts, I see a woman in one of those contraptions and all I can think is "OW!"

 

[trdash]

I am new to this site, and may be way off here. I agree with many of the perceptive here and can honestly see how breasts and a penis are different (plural and singular; breasts are not a specific sexual organ; breasts are for feeding, etc.). Just so everyone knows, I am a heterosexual male who is married.

However, I have also noticed some silly comparisons, that seem to be pervasive in everyday society. Both on-line and in face to face conversations, I have argued with men (usually good friends in face to face conversations) that have a preference for larger breasts is an act of sexually objectifying women and that locating female worth via breast size is damaging for both men and women. On the on-line forums, a fairly common reply back – by both men and women – is that I must be small between the legs to not want to be with a woman sexually who is large up top. My real reason is that men need to see women as beyond sexual objects and when you fall in love, breast size is irrelevant. But there have been a good many of men and women who make this comparison who believe I am small and am “intimidated” by large breasted women. It’s another example of a silly comparison and I realize it’s an ad hominem statement.

The only comparison that has caused me to stop and think is the comparison between breast implants and Viagra use. Both are interventions used to add firmness related to aging. I once had anwoman explain that the male craze for Viagra (when there is not a real medical need – just normative aging and less firm erections) is the equal of women getting breast implants – both are about firming up a body part for intimacy. That has caused me to stop and think, but I am not sure if it a real fair-minded comparison.

What do others think?

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me that many women take as much pride in their breasts as many men take in their penis.

 

[Skwim]

Personally, I've never known any man who was at all concerned about the size of their penis, or has taken particular pride in it. As the old joke goes. A man and a women on a date finally get to the point of having sex. The woman disrobes and then the man does the same. Looking at the size of the man's penis, she says with disappointment and a sneer, "And who do you think your going to satisfy with that? The man looks down at himself and then at her, and responds, "Me." A penis, unlike breasts, which are always in view to one extent or the other, remains out of sight and rarely draws attention.

 

[Sunstone]

Personally, I've never known any man who was at all concerned about the size of their penis...

I have. I haven't counted exactly how many men I've known who were concerned with the size of their penis, but I have known quite a few. I suppose that only goes to show we've known different people, though, rather than provides a grounds for drawing much in the way of general conclusions.

 

[Skwim]

I have. I haven't counted exactly how many men I've known who were concerned with the size of their penis, but I have known quite a few. I suppose that only goes to show we've known different people, though, rather than provides a grounds for drawing much in the way of general conclusions.

Absolutely. I don't wouldn't want anyone to make generalizations from what either of us has said.

 

[Sunstone]

Absolutely. I don't wouldn't want anyone to make generalizations from what either of us has said.

Agreed.

 

[Penumbra]

A woman's breasts are an aspect of the shape of her body, and are quite visible in many forms of closing, seeing as how we have them right front and center. So I can see why women would be proud of, or worry about, their breasts.

A man's penis doesn't really affect his appearance.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

A man's penis doesn't really affect his appearance.

For some of us it does.

 

[trdash]

A woman's breasts are an aspect of the shape of her body, and are quite visible in many forms of closing, seeing as how we have them right front and center. So I can see why women would be proud of, or worry about, their breasts.

A man's penis doesn't really affect his appearance.

Penumbra:
Your last post makes sense to me. However, don’t you think that times are changing at the penis is become more front and center in society.

In a fairly fascinating book called “Survival of the prettiest” the psychologist Nancy Ectoff claims that because breasts are on display in society (you can gauge size even when women dresses modestly) that men have been socialized to think that breast size/shape is important from a general attraction framework (I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not gauge female attraction on breast size/shape and would debunk the thinking of any person who thinks it’s ok to do so). Ectoff claims because the male sex organ is always hidden (erect or flaccid), women are socialized to not really care about size/shape/appearance, but instead focus on personality.

There is still clearly inequality in society, but it seems to me that penis size and shape is becoming more part of mainstream society, with a strong emphasis that bigger is better (just like with women). Personally, I am shocked at how often comments are made about the beneficial aspects of having a larger penis on mainstream movie and TV shows and HBO created the show “Hung.” Full frontal male nudity is now become fairly common in restrictive shows and I am sure this will extended to erections soon. Wet underwear contest are becoming the norm around university campuses, where woman can gauge size. And of course the internet has proliferated this also.

So, although I agree with your comments I can see things are changing and sadly I think you will see in the next few years more women will be socialized to think that penis size/shape is important from a general attraction framework. It will not become as front and center as women related to breasts, but it will (sadly) become more front and center in the general psyche of society.

 

[Skwim]

Penumbra:
Your last post makes sense to me. However, don’t you think that times are changing at the penis is become more front and center in society.

In a fairly fascinating book called “Survival of the prettiest” the psychologist Nancy Ectoff claims that because breasts are on display in society (you can gauge size even when women dresses modestly) that men have been socialized to think that breast size/shape is important from a general attraction framework (I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not gauge female attraction on breast size/shape and would debunk the thinking of any person who thinks it’s ok to do so). Ectoff claims because the male sex organ is always hidden (erect or flaccid), women are socialized to not really care about size/shape/appearance, but instead focus on personality.

I disagree with Ectoff's claim as you've related it. Aside from being on display, because breasts are almost always concealed they remain a mystery of sorts, which I believe greatly enhances their appeal. More than once I've seen it mention that for those who frequent nudist gatherings, both males and females, sexualized body parts loose much of their allure. And other than the fact that covered breasts are a result of social mores, I fail to see how men are socialized "to think that breast size/shape is important." My opinion is that the any importance placed on size is a result of the more-is-better mind set. Personally, I'm much more attracted to perkiness, than size.

There is still clearly inequality in society, but it seems to me that penis size and shape is becoming more part of mainstream society, with a strong emphasis that bigger is better (just like with women).

Hey, people are attracted to what they're attracted to. I fail to see any inequality. If anything, I see any increase in importance here as merely the result people feeling freer to speak out about their preferences.

Personally, I am shocked at how often comments are made about the beneficial aspects of having a larger penis on mainstream movie and TV shows and HBO created the show “Hung.” Full frontal male nudity is now become fairly common in restrictive shows and I am sure this will extended to erections soon. Wet underwear contest are becoming the norm around university campuses, where woman can gauge size. And of course the internet has proliferated this also.

Things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. As I see it, a greater acceptance of sex and sexuality is healthier than a lessening acceptance.

So, although I agree with your comments I can see things are changing and sadly I think you will see in the next few years more women will be socialized to think that penis size/shape is important from a general attraction framework.

Again, I don't see socialization being a big player in this. Just because the majority of people might prefer chocolate ice cream doesn't in least affect my preference for vanilla. I like what I like.

 

[trdash]

Skwim
I can agree with some of what you are saying. I agree, for example, that there still is a mystery aspect when breasts or covered up. But that is true for us as male in a similar culture, there are studies that underscore that men of different cultures and eras do not find breast even sexually exciting.

However, at the root of your last post is that you are free from all socialization – you like what you like. And this is an area we will have a huge difference of opinion, I believe that all people are socialized by norms. Simply look at ethnic dress – we dress related to the standards of cultural norms. Same with sexual aspects, to the classic Greeks male nudity was everywhere with very little female nudity. In the 1970s and 1980s in the United States, there were movies where female frontal nudity was acceptable and no full male frontal nudity (unless x-rated). Today, male frontal nudity is become acceptable in movies that are not x-rated. In the Victorian era, small breasts were desirable and were signs of upper class grace and intelligence (desire for larger breasts were associated with less-developed people who were animalistic). Today with the development of breast implants surgeries, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons is trying to convince/manipulate women (and men) that bigger breasts are better.

My point is this, we are all socialized. Human behavior is based on genetics and environment and the norms of cultures do affect us. With that said, we are not helpless to social conditioning, but it does play a part of who we are. I think your post hyper-augments individualism with little awareness of how as people part of our human behavior is based on environmental conditioning.

 

[Skwim]

Skwim
I can agree with some of what you are saying. I agree, for example, that there still is a mystery aspect when breasts or covered up. But that is true for us as male in a similar culture, there are studies that underscore that men of different cultures and eras do not find breast even sexually exciting.

However, at the root of your last post is that you are free from all socialization – you like what you like.

False generalization. Cultural socialization has shaped many of my outlooks and predilections.

And this is an area we will have a huge difference of opinion, I believe that all people are socialized by norms. Simply look at ethnic dress – we dress related to the standards of cultural norms. Same with sexual aspects, to the classic Greeks male nudity was everywhere with very little female nudity. In the 1970s and 1980s in the United States, there were movies where female frontal nudity was acceptable and no full male frontal nudity (unless x-rated). Today, male frontal nudity is become acceptable in movies that are not x-rated. In the Victorian era, small breasts were desirable and were signs of upper class grace and intelligence (desire for larger breasts were associated with less-developed people who were animalistic). Today with the development of breast implants surgeries, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons is trying to convince/manipulate women (and men) that bigger breasts are better.

Oh, I think you'd be very hard pressed to make that case.

 

[Koldo]

A woman's breasts are an aspect of the shape of her body, and are quite visible in many forms of closing, seeing as how we have them right front and center. So I can see why women would be proud of, or worry about, their breasts.

A man's penis doesn't really affect his appearance.

The size of a penis may have direct effect upon appearence if you use swimsuits, and impact upon self-steem even when it is concealed.

 

[Valjean]

Breasts are a secondary sexual display feature, like noses, not primary sexual anatomy like a penis.

 

[trdash]

Breasts are a secondary sexual display feature, like noses, not primary sexual anatomy like a penis.

Seyorni:

Although I agree with you, there still are so many parallels between breasts and penises.

In the Western world, both are external body part used for sexual stimulation and satisfaction. Sadly, in the Western world, both are more valued when they are larger and firmer. Women with smaller breasts and men with smaller penises are the blunt end of jokes, and women and men who are larger are saluted or sometimes held in awe. Also in the Western world, when breasts and penises become less firm due to normative aging, women rush to plastic surgeons for surgery, and men rush to medical doctors for Viagra.

So, I can see some parallels.