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Abiogenesis, elements of life.

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
In the early history of the Earth, life as we know it would have been impossible. Methane, hydrogen, ammonia and water were present, but very little to no free oxygen.
In 1952 Stanley Miller and Harold Urey set up an experiment based on the hypothesis of Alexander Oparin and J. B. S. Haldane that conditions on the primitive Earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized organic compounds from inorganic precursors.

Using the elements that were abundant on the earth at the time of the hypothesized origin of life, Urey and Miller introduced simulated lighting to this prebiotic 'soup'.
In 1953 they published their findings. They found that at least five differing amino acids were formed. In 2008 a reanalysis of the Urey-Miller experiment found that 22 amino acids were formed, rather than 5, in the in one of the apparatus used in the original experiment. Sugars, lipids, and some of the building blocks for nucleic acids were also formed.

Jeffery Bada recently performed tests similar to the Urey-Miller experiment. He found that while carbon dioxide and nitrogen that were present in that early atmosphere may have created amino acid destroying nitrates, iron and carbonate materials also believed to be present would have neutralized the nitrates, and would result in a significant amount of amino acids surviving.

An interesting note is that in 1969, the Murchison meteorite that fell in Australia was found to contain over 90 different amino acids. 19 of which are also found in Earth lifeforms. Showing that the production of amino acids, the very building blocks needed for carbon based life, are not limited to Earth.
Also giving some credence to the panspermia hypothesis that our original building blocks may very well have come from somewhere beyond our own solar system.

As a science, abiogenesis is still seriously underdeveloped in its explanatory power, despite the recent progress. Continuing research will provide more answers, and may give some surprising results. But that is what scientific research is all about. Looking for the correct answers to our biggest questions, no matter what those answers may be. Not looking for the answers we want.
 

Runlikethewind

Monk in Training
Are you at all familiar with an experiment done relating to the effect of high-energy impact events from asteroids and comets and such? The experiment I remember hearing about took those amino-acids you refer to and subjected them to an impact similar to that of space debris. The result was, as I recall, the formation of a number of more complex proteins. But I can't for the life of me find anything about this experiment.
 

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
Early life was anaerobic, probably using Iron / sulfur redox reactions slowly developing into something similar to blue-green algae which could photosynthesize and produced oxygen. Eventually after a further 2.5 billion years the atmospheric oxygen content was high enough to start poisoning the FeS anaerobes. This led to the sudden explosion of more sophisticated aerobic bacteria that eventually led to us. It is interesing to note how quickly life developed after the earth cooled enough to support it, only about half a BILLION years. Amazing really.

Amino acids are an important part of higher life, but probably of less importance in early protolife, where nucleic acids may have been the more desirable essential components. Evidence would suggest the formation of RNA can occur forming nucleotide polymers which can replicate on silicate arrays such as those found on montmorillonite type clays.


Cheers
 
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David M

Well-Known Member
In the early history of the Earth, life as we know it would have been impossible. Methane, hydrogen, ammonia and water were present, but very little to no free oxygen.

Are you saying that free oxygen is a requirement for life as we know it?

Considering that we have found life that does not require free oxygen that is around today I'd say that this assertion needs some serious evidence.

Thiobacillus denitrificans is a bacteria that uses nitrate to oxidise sulfur.

Loriciferans are animals that survive and reproduce in extremenly anoxic conditions.
 

Beyondo

Active Member
Found it! thanks to Commoner from another abiogenesis thread that is really startin to heat up now!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Interesting ideas...So it would seem that the stuff of life should be all over the solar system! Life on Mars seem even more reasonable after reading that article, but actually life on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn seem likely as well. But the energy sources for the life on the gas giants' moons would be volcanism caused by the planets' gravitational tidal forces and even the radiation belts.

If life is exists through out our solar system, then life within our local galactic neighborhood is very likely. Some kind of life exists within 10 to 50 light years radius...
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Are you saying that free oxygen is a requirement for life as we know it?

No, I am saying that life as we know it today could not have existed in our early atmosphere of carbon dioxide, methane, ammonia, nitrogen and other volatiles.
That and the lack of free oxygen was actually helpful in the creation of the initial amino acids.


Considering that we have found life that does not require free oxygen that is around today I'd say that this assertion needs some serious evidence.
Thanks, but I made no such assertion.

Thiobacillus denitrificans is a bacteria that uses nitrate to oxidise sulfur.

Loriciferans are animals that survive and reproduce in extremenly anoxic conditions.
Thanks for the info.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Amino acids are NOT elements of life. Amino acids are quite plentiful in dead things. No amino acid is alive.

Look deeper, don't waste your time on the surface.

Life is something that activates DNA/RNA. Find that in your Abiogenisis experiment.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Amino acids are NOT elements of life. Amino acids are quite plentiful in dead things. No amino acid is alive.
Did I ever imply that Amino Acids were alive? Amino Acids are necessary for life.

Look deeper, don't waste your time on the surface.
Read the OP


Life is something that activates DNA/RNA. Find that in your Abiogenisis experiment.

Runlikethewind provided a link to a very good article from Nature.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Did I ever imply that Amino Acids were alive? Amino Acids are necessary for life.


Read the OP




Runlikethewind provided a link to a very good article from Nature.

Amino acids are necessary for life? And so are many other elements like Calcium, Selenium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium... Still, none are alive. Life is not a chemical, life uses chemicals to form biological machines.

It's not the formation of a group of chemicals that gives life, it's the mysterious something that ACTIVATES that group.

There are two kinds of God energy that are attracted to life, spirit energy and soul energy. Spirit energy is dumb energy that is attracted to DNA/RNA of suitable quality. This spirit energy activates DNA/RNA. You can remove a living cell from your body (or even an arm) and provide it with sufficient air, food, water, temperature, waste removal, and it will survive.

Soul energy is sentient energy. It is attracted to a certain part of the brain in higher developed life forms. If that part of the brain is damaged the soul will disconnect but our medical technology can still keep the body alive like the unfortunate case of Terry Schiavo.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
I thought the latest "thinking" in the origins of life was that it could have started next to volcanic activity deep in the oceans, in places one would not normally think would be habitable to any life.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Amino acids are necessary for life? And so are many other elements like Calcium, Selenium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium... Still, none are alive. Life is not a chemical, life uses chemicals to form biological machines.
Yes, Amino Acids (Proteins) are one of the necessary components of biological life on this planet. As well as [SIZE=-1]Polysaccharides, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Phospholipids and [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Nucleic Acids[/SIZE].

It's not the formation of a group of chemicals that gives life, it's the mysterious something that ACTIVATES that group.

Tell me. What is that "mysterious something"? Do you have an hypothesis that can be tested?

There are two kinds of God energy that are attracted to life, spirit energy and soul energy. Spirit energy is dumb energy that is attracted to DNA/RNA of suitable quality. This spirit energy activates DNA/RNA. You can remove a living cell from your body (or even an arm) and provide it with sufficient air, food, water, temperature, waste removal, and it will survive.
God energy? Again, have you detected this energy in any repeatable lab experiments? Is this God energy falsifiable?

Soul energy is sentient energy. It is attracted to a certain part of the brain in higher developed life forms. If that part of the brain is damaged the soul will disconnect but our medical technology can still keep the body alive like the unfortunate case of Terry Schiavo.

Please provide scientifically verifiable evidence for your statement.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
I thought the latest "thinking" in the origins of life was that it could have started next to volcanic activity deep in the oceans, in places one would not normally think would be habitable to any life.

True. Oceanic vents may have been a source for abiogenesis. However, lab experimentation is having more success with the scenario outlined in the OP.
 

Perfect Circle

Just Browsing
Amino acids are necessary for life? And so are many other elements like Calcium, Selenium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium... Still, none are alive. Life is not a chemical, life uses chemicals to form biological machines.

It's not the formation of a group of chemicals that gives life, it's the mysterious something that ACTIVATES that group.

There are two kinds of God energy that are attracted to life, spirit energy and soul energy. Spirit energy is dumb energy that is attracted to DNA/RNA of suitable quality. This spirit energy activates DNA/RNA. You can remove a living cell from your body (or even an arm) and provide it with sufficient air, food, water, temperature, waste removal, and it will survive.

Soul energy is sentient energy. It is attracted to a certain part of the brain in higher developed life forms. If that part of the brain is damaged the soul will disconnect but our medical technology can still keep the body alive like the unfortunate case of Terry Schiavo.


Very sound argument. I think I speak for everyone here when I say "check & mate"... :rolleyes:
 
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