Abortion: can a mother hurt the embryo?

[leroy]

I think you may be confusing "conscious" with "self aware". 5 month babies are clearly conscious.

adjective: aware of and responding to one's surroundings[

and can you provide a source that shows that a 1 month baby is concious (using that defintion)

[Who makes that argument? Certainly not me. Not do the medical experts on whose advice laws are based.

It's always fun to pop back over were and watch you flailing about like a badly trained ninja.

Ok if you are not making the argument, and if you don’t think is a good argument, then we agree.

 

[KWED]

and can you provide a source that shows that a 1 month baby is concious (using that defintion)

Ah, sorry. I just assumed that you had been in the same room as a baby before. My bad.
ok. If you touch a newborn baby's cheek with your little finger it will turn to it and suckle it. It is aware that there is something next to its face, thinks it is a nipple and reacts to it by turning to feed.
If a baby is crying, you can make certain noises (depends on the baby), the baby is aware of the noise and reacts by calming.
Health visitors check on a baby's awareness and reaction from a few weeks. They start smiling in response to familiar sights and sounds from the second month. You can get them to laugh at three months fss!

And yet you are claiming that newborns are just insentient meat robots until they are 5 months old

Careful now, you'll have someone's eye out!

 

[leroy]

Your definition has been dismissed, with reasonable explanation.
Unless you also accept my definition: a human baby after it has been born.
Ok?

Well I am the one who is making the argument, I am the one who decides how to define words, but who cares, you dont have to call it “person” you can use any other label.

The argument would be

1 it is wrong to kill humans with actual or potencial consciousness (I call it person, but you can use any other term)

2 abortion implies killing a human with actual or potential consciousness

3 therefore abortion is wrong

Which of the 2 premises would you deny and why?

That used "conscious" meaning "self aware", not "aware of and responding to one's surroundings".
Remember it was you who claimed that it responds to its environment.
In fact, reading back you seem to have been even more confused that I first thought. You said..."they are not aware of anything, they simply react".
You cannot react to something if you are not aware of it.

Yes I am confused, what is the difference between "aware" and "self-aware?

And please can you explain your point?

Also, the typical dishonest cherry-picking of the religionists. You ignore the scientific medical community when they decide that early-stage abortion is ethical, and yet suddenly, scientific opinion is sacrosanct when you find something that you imagine supports your position.

You haven’t supported that the medical community decided that it is ethical to abort……….. but so what? they are authorities in medicine, not in ethics.

But so what? what is your point?

I see you are still peddling your fundamentally dishonest claim that an early-stage]abortion is "killing a baby".

Aborting is killing a human with potential consciousness…. Feel free to call it a person or to use another label… so what? what is your point? Care to elaborate an argument?

 

[leroy]

Ah, sorry. I just assumed that you had been in the same room as a baby before. My bad.
ok. If you touch a newborn baby's cheek with your little finger it will turn to it and suckle it. It is aware that there is something next to its face, thinks it is a nipple and reacts to it by turning to feed.
If a baby is crying, you can make certain noises (depends on the baby), the baby is aware of the noise and reacts by calming.
Health visitors check on a baby's awareness and reaction from a few weeks. They start smiling in response to familiar sights and sounds from the second month. You can get them to laugh at three months fss!

And yet you are claiming that newborns are just insentient meat robots until they are 5 months old

Careful now, you'll have someone's eye out!

Well a fetus has that type of reactions too…………. But I am lost, care to explain your point? Care to develpe your argument?

 

[leroy]

nd yet you are claiming that newborns are just insentient meat robots until they are 5 months old
Careful now, you'll have someone's eye out!

I have never claimed that 5months old babies are incientent, I have no idea, and as far I as know nobody knows……

But so what? what is your point? Care to develop an argument?

My claim that I would make is that it doesn’t really matter if a 5month baby is sentient or not, he is sill a human worthy of human rights.

any disgareement?