God allows many bad things in this "life". It does not mean they are all good.
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Abortion doctors are more pro life than God.
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
But it does mean God wants them to be. The God of the New testament wants you to be concerned about you first and foremost and then teachers of his word and lastly to walk away from those that won't listen. You can hold sinners accountable but God is the only one to judge Jesus taught and asked sinners to change but never forced them. Today's Christians are all about Judgement and Government 2 things Christ was against. It really is a shame.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry, repeating an error will not make it go away. And even if God gave life, once you give something it is no longer yours. You are wrong on several levels here.
There are quite a few places. Here are two, but you may not understand them:
- Mark 16:16 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
- John 3:5 “Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’”
No, that is ignoring other parts of the Bible where it makes it clear that everyone sins and everyone false short of the unreasonable standards of the god of the Bible. If Jesus saved he would save everyone regardless of something as pathetic as belief.
So it is not about whether one was righteous or not. You are now openly contradicting yourself.
No, the Bible is never clear. One can support almost any argument by picking and choosing the verses that one wants to follow. Again, that is why there are thousands upon thousands of sects.
I don't think so. God wanted people to be free and he allowed people to also get the knowledge about evil. Yet He has also given advice how people should live well and not do evil things, which means He doesn't want that people do bad things.
Those are not the same as: "Bible admits that being evil is not what keeps a person out of heaven".
Why call belief pathetic? All of your actions and knowledge is based on believing.
But, anyway, saving is offered for all freely. It is not useful, if one continues in sin and doesn't accept the offer.
Sorry, I don't see how.
If people cherry pick lines from the Bible arbitrarily, it is not fault of Bible, if the text becomes unclear. Any book can be called unclear, if read like that.
God wants people to have choice and to choose right by their own will, not being forced. The current Christian world wants to take away God's choices and force everyone by mans law. Elevating mans laws over God's.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
They are. That is the logical consequence of those verses. A person can lack belief in your God and still be very very moral. They won't get to heaven. And yet the most immoral person ever only needs to say "I'm sorry God, I won't do it again, really" even though he has done it again and again. As long as his timing right he gets to heaven.
No, freely offered would have to include actually knowing that the Bible is true and since it is clearly not all true then the offer is not genuine as offered. Many will never have the myths of the Bible explained to them in a believable way at all.
I know, and that is your probem.
No, everyone cherry picks the Bible. You do it all of the time too. One almost has too because the Bible is constantly contradicting itself.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I have read the Bible many times and some of it I can quote without looking it up.
Muffled
Jesus in me
God has the power and the right to decide to whom and when death comes.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is the same one and none of that is murder.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Might as well put a millstone on one's neck than hurt a little one.
Another contradiction obviously.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I grant that you believe this, but you cannot justify this belief.
There is a big difference between making baseless claims and disbelief. I think Thomas is a good example of a person who had difficulties in believing, but could still be considered righteous.
The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." After eight days again his disciples were inside, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, the doors being locked, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace be to you." Then he said to Thomas, "Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don't be unbelieving, but believing."
John 20:25-27
I don't think disbelief is bad, if there is a good reason for it. If you don't have a good reason for it, then it can be bad and a sign of unrighteousness. Before you go to final judgment, you better have a really good reason, or a very good lawyer.
And you know that because?
One of the most clear lines in the Bible is:
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
And being righteous means:
…He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is right-eous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
It may be that even a righteous person makes mistakes. But, I don't think such a person would fake being sorry, when he knows he has done wrongly. And if one is not faking, I think being sorry and asking forgiveness is one sign of righteousness.
I think your biggest problem is to claim it is not true, when you can't really know it. If you would only say that you don't believe, I don't think it would be a problem.
Yet I don't think you can show any real contradiction in it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry, mythological characters from a book of myths do not help you. And it brings up a very valid point. Let's assume that the myth is true. Though in reality Jesus was probably never taken down from the cross. Let's assume that Thomas got this confirmation. Why would Thomas get a special revelation, when he knew Jesus in reality and could not accept someone that was close but no cigar in looking like Jesus? He got to see and touch the evidence himself and yet everyone else has practically nothing in personal evidence compared to what he was exposed to. To be fair shouldn't everyone have this sort of evidence given to them?
Because I know human nature. People fail. That is what we do best. "Saved" people tend to fail even more often it seems, they just won't admit it. No one can be perfect so what even is a "righteous person"? You do not know any. You may know some people that put on a good public face, but we all have our failures. Even me at times, as hard as that is to believe.
I do not just claim that it is not all true. I can show how it fails. But that requires some honesty on those that are being showed how it fails. You have failed that test yourself. Refusing to accept facts supported by clear evidence does not help Jesus. And this is what shows your claim to be a bit of projection. I can support my claims of the Bible being false. You have failed to show any evidence for it being true.
And you immediately confirm my claims. I can and have shown real contradictions in it. You appear to have very weak faith. Perhaps you believe the opposite. But claiming that God is a liar, as you so often do, is not an example of strong faith It shows the opposite. If the real God is different from the Bible God you refuse to believe in him because you honor a book of myths more than you honor God. The Bible is just a book of people trying to write down what they thought that God was like over the years. They got quite a bit wrong. Especially in the early Bible where the cure for behaviors that were not even sins in any sense of the word was to kill the person guilty of them.
And to top that off, Satan only killed 10 people. Who's the evil character in that book again?
I think the reason is, it is not about knowing God is, but about being righteous. It is possible to be or to become righteous, even without knowing surely. Even if God would prove Himself to you without any doubt, it is not useful, if you don't become righteous.
But, maybe this promise could help to know?
Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17
I have understood righteousness means wisdom of the just. Person who has that wisdom can be called righteous.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh my! Breaking the Ninth Commandment and slandering your fellow man. An atheist is far more likely to be righteous than Christians. You should know that by now.
You far too often do not act righteous here. You do not even understand the concept of sin. But that is the sect you were brought up in.
Please explain why do you think so and what righteous means to you?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
In a nutshell, less likely to harm others.
So, if you lead others astray with lies, are you harmful?