Abortion = Manslaughter??

[michel]

I cant believe some of what I have been reading. Hit the mother in the head! Who do you think you are. She was probably uneducated about the services offered or scared about what her parents would say and think!

Lily, Namaste.

I agree with you; I am not sure whose 'fault' this is. Ultimately though, I cannot really believe that a sixteen year old would be so uneducated; there is enough advertizing about sex, contraception, well I find it difficult to understand the whole thing. I think some of the comments made in this thread were a 'gut-reaction', and that it you actually gave anyone the baseball bat with which to bash the teenagers heads, he/she would not actually do so.

I think I can speak on behalf of most people here in this respect - the subject is so emotive that we react on 'paper' differently than we would in real life.

I notice that this is your first post, and I therefore wanted to welcome you here; You might find this helpful: Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to forum rules .

I hope you enloy being with us.

 

[James the Persian]

The weirdest thing about this whole discussion is the manslaughter charge. How on earth can it be manslaughter? Does that mean something else over the pond? Here it means the unintentional killing of a human being (and I assume it does over there too). In that case you can either agree with me that abortion is the deliberate killing of a human being and therefore the action is morally (but not legally) murder, or you can say that the the foetus is not a human being in which case abortion is neither murder nor manslaughter. The only way this case resulting in a manslaughter charge would make sense is if the girl was being hit with the baseball bat in some sort of strange game with both parties unaware that their reckless actions might endanger the child. That, clearly, is nonsense and I agree with all those who say your legal system is working to double standards (and I'd add a lack of logical coherency).

James

 

[Isabella Lecour]

OK. I don't get it. Why would the society even care how a 16 year old woman would choose to abort a unwanted child in a society that permits abortion? Is it because she didn't go to an "approved" doctor to perform the abortion? I know she took great risk to her own life in choosing this particular way of doing it and I wouldn't ever recommend such a method. But it was the method she choose to preform a legal option. I don't know what her money status is, so I'll ask this; whats the going price for abortions now days? Is that too much to expect from a 16 year old? I don't think any of them should be charged for a crime. If abortion is legal, then any method to do such should be legal too.
Morals mean little to me in this case. It's the legals that's got them in trouble, not morals. Depending on morals, this case would be all over the place from reaction alone.

Isabella

 

[Fluffy]

Why is this girl possibly facing manslaughter charges for aborting her own fetus?

There are two possibilities. Firstly the age of the foetus, was it older than it is legally allowed to be aborted? Secondly the method of abortion, was such a method less humane than the standard abortion procedure?

The first requires a fact which I do not have available to me so I won't comment on it. The second is based on opinion but I, and I think others will agree, that the method of miscarriage via baseball bat to the stomach is comparatively less humane and would have caused the baby more suffering than that of a standard abortion procedure. This might be justification for charging the 2 for manslaughter.

 

[michel]

What I cant understand about this - and I think it is cruicial to the case, is how far into the pregnancy the gil was; It sounds as if it was not 'very early' - since the fetus was 'burried' and the Medical examiner needs to find out at what stage the pregnancy was.

Whichever way you look at it, it is horrendous. If the girl was truly a consenting party to what can only be termed 'abuse', there is something very badly wrong; for one I cannot imagine the boy hitting her repeatedly, day after day. I just don't know, the whole thing is beyond words.

 

[Fluffy]

Whichever way you look at it, it is horrendous. If the girl was truly a consenting party to what can only be termed 'abuse', there is something very badly wrong; for one I cannot imagine the boy hitting her repeatedly, day after day. I just don't know, the whole thing is beyond words.

I agree. It is also very difficult to believe that the boy or girl were consenting parties in this though I would have thought it more likely that the girl coerced the boy into it. If she was that desperate not to have a baby then it is likely because her background (perhaps her parents or community) would look badly upon it whereas the boy would have comparatively little to lose, at least nothing which might make him go to such extremes.

 

[Prima]

Is there a law that states abortion can only be performed a certain way?

Yes, there are guidelines. Baseball bats are not acceptable medical instruments for an abortion...

I think the whole thing is just sick.

 

[Prima]

On another note, a friend of mine was pregnant...a friend of hers who was angry at her for some reason punched her in the abdomen in an attempt to get revenge by making her miscarry. It worked They didn't press charges, though...it made me very sad.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Abortion is legal in the UK.
I have never heard of a case of violent abortion here. Though I could believe violence probably has been used on women to cause abortion. It would the Violence on the woman that would be the main offence.
There is an anti abortion lobby in the Uk but it is small and as yet ineffective.

My belief is that until a fetus is viable it has no independent human rights.

Do fetus have souls I don't Know?

Terry
______________________________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land

 

[Ceridwen018]

I believe late-term (after fetal viability) abortions are restricted (allowed in cases where it hurts the mother) in most states.

Partial Birth Abortion, which is the only way to abort a fetus in the 3rd trimester or late 2nd trimester, is illegal. However, in cases where the mother's life is at risk, I believe that it can still be performed.

Why would the society even care how a 16 year old woman would choose to abort a unwanted child in a society that permits abortion?

The manslaughter charge is crap, this I think we all agree on. That said, I believe there are stipulations of some kind about a person harming themselves....but I need someone to help me out with that one because I'm not sure. Anyhow, the girl was obviously harming herself by allowing herself to be hit by a baseball bat.

Secondly, an aborted fetus is a biohazard. In an abortion clinic, the aborted babies are disposed of in a safe manner, however, this girl would have basically thrown her baby into the trashcan, which would have been illegal.

I have never heard of a case of violent abortion here.

There is an anti abortion lobby in the Uk but it is small and as yet ineffective.

I imagine that birth control and abortions are easier to come by in the UK than in America where anti-abortion lobbyists stand strong. Perhaps that is why there is less violence. Obviously, these kids felt that they had no alternative.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

It was not uncommon in my time for people to use natural substances to abort an unwanted fetus ( codliver oil, penaroil, are these "old wifes tales"?, someone please correct me if I'm wrong here) But although these matters were common knowledge they were not discussed openly in society as a matter of good form.

I think you'll find Castor rather than Cod Liver was the oil of choice there. I've also been told a bottle of a whiskey and a very hot bath can be quite effective as well.

 

[BebopBoy]

Using a baseball bat to abort a fetus, and i bet people think they are messed up. With all the freakin scare tactics everyone gives teens about sex, and morals and stuff like that it makes total sense to me. Not to mention the girls parents probably would have disowned her for getting pregnant. We need understanding parents, not more laws.

 

[michel]

Using a baseball bat to abort a fetus, and i bet people think they are messed up. With all the freakin scare tactics everyone gives teens about sex, and morals and stuff like that it makes total sense to me. Not to mention the girls parents probably would have disowned her for getting pregnant. We need understanding parents, not more laws.

I agree with you to some extent - but just wait until you become a parent - it isn't all plain sailing! I have done my best to be what I would call 'understanding' - but there are limits.........

 

[BebopBoy]

I agree with you to some extent - but just wait until you become a parent - it isn't all plain sailing! I have done my best to be what I would call 'understanding' - but there are limits.........

Hahaha i agree, i was just focusing more on the parents who have no reguard for their children. I am privelged enough to have amazing parents, but i know of a lot of kids who arent as lucky as I am. And from what i read of your posts michel, i dig all of what you say, except when it comes to religious prefrence MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU