Abortion question.

[Unveiled Artist]

During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?

My coworker told me she constantly questions and corrects her pastor on things. While a lot of people respect their spiritual elder, on the other hand they aren't perfect. I guess it depends on how big your congregation is. I'm sure your peers wanted to do the same.

 

[Kenny]

Unfortunately most, if not all "churches", have an agenda that must be accepted before you can belong; and you are expected to follow the teachings blindly and without question. Once you start thinking for yourself and discovering you own truth you'll start seeing how shallow most of these denominations really are.

I disagree.

 

[Kenny]

Are we talking about "aborted" babies won't go to heaven when not properly baptized?
I am curious if "King David's first born, not baptized, who went to heaven" was "aborted"

It seems from the context it's about aborted babies. If that is the case God needs to update His justice system
But more probably the pastor needs to find another job, because obviously he is not good in this job

doesn't matter. Aborted, not aborted, murdered, or however they died... there is no scriptural support in the Bible for baptizing a baby to go to Heaven.

 

[Kenny]

I think that is technically incorrect. Nobody goes to heaven till the end of time when God will judge the people. The traffic to heaven and hell will start at that time. Presently, the buildings are ready to be occupied but absolutely empty. It could be anytime, depending on the desire (whim) of the old man.

I disagree... It may be a theological position for argument sake, but I find enough scriptural support.

 

[Kenny]

As opposed to what?
Trinitarianism? Racism? Homophobia? The Crusades? The perfection of the Quran?

Why are his unsupported assertions religious hogwash, but your's aren't?
Tom

No scriptural support. But why are you moving the goal post?

 

[Riders]

During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?

Babies can not go to hell, you believe your God sends innocent unborn babies to hell????????????This is one reason why i will not ever serve your stinky war Tribal God..........

 

[Sir Doom]

I just wonder if heaven comes equipped with a little window to look down into hell so that this pastor can gaze in smug self-satisfaction at burning hell-babies.

 

[Cacotopia]

I also would like to know how** this guy was saying that the wombs will be haunted by discarded fetuses for all eternity. was he screaming it?

 

[Cacotopia]

I just wonder if heaven comes equipped with a little window to look down into hell so that this pastor can gaze in smug self-satisfaction at burning hell-babies.

Quite a few Christians I have conversed with gloat at their future permanent movie theatre of horrors they can go at leisure to in heaven, once they get there. They say they will thoroughly enjoy watching me and other unbelievers getting tortured for an eternity.

That says so very much about them as "forgiving and peaceful" Christians.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I disagree... It may be a theological position for argument sake, but I find enough scriptural support.

You have not quoted any. And if you can, then the books carry conflicting ideas.

 

[stvdv]

doesn't matter. Aborted, not aborted, murdered, or however they died... there is no scriptural support in the Bible for baptizing a baby to go to Heaven.

I was just curious if "abortion was the case with King David". Because you mentioned this example in the context of abortion. Just to get my facts straight.

 

[stvdv]

Quite a few Christians I have conversed with gloat at their future permanent movie theatre of horrors they can go at leisure to in heaven, once they get there. They say they will thoroughly enjoy watching me and other unbelievers getting tortured for an eternity.

That says so very much about them as "forgiving and peaceful" Christians.

I have met very judgmental Christians, but not yet the type you describe. I pray to God to keep it that way for their sake

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It's easy to think all are the same. Especially if you run from one to another, and find not much difference.
After a while you get confused, and tired. The next step is to give up.

I kinda did that. Jesus said if your right arm causes you to sin, you should cut it off. I figured churches were filled with backstabbing gossiping harpies, so I left.

I just wonder if heaven comes equipped with a little window to look down into hell so that this pastor can gaze in smug self-satisfaction at burning hell-babies.

Guys like him go to a Twilight Zone heaven, where everything seems perfect, like you're alone in a world filled with books, only to have your glasses break.

They say they will thoroughly enjoy watching me and other unbelievers getting tortured for an eternity.

I've seen a lot of horror movies. Satan has to up his game to compare.

 

[Socratic Berean]

...because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven.

Did not Christ promise the thief on the cross that he would enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Was the thief baptized?

 

[Kenny]

You have not quoted any. And if you can, then the books carry conflicting ideas.

There are none in reference to baptizing baby... so what can I quote?

 

[Kenny]

I was just curious if "abortion was the case with King David". Because you mentioned this example in the context of abortion. Just to get my facts straight.

I'm sorry if I didn't explain myself well. King David's baby died prematurely and went to Heaven. Whether a baby dies prematurely or if it was aborted etc, he/she still goes to Heaven... there is nothing to suggest otherwise and King David said "I will see him again..." in context to Heaven.

 

[stvdv]

I'm sorry if I didn't explain myself well. King David's baby died prematurely and went to Heaven. Whether a baby dies prematurely or if it was aborted etc, he/she still goes to Heaven... there is nothing to suggest otherwise and King David said "I will see him again..." in context to Heaven.

Thank you. Good to hear positive information [OP seemed so negative]. I had a brother who died the second day. So he made it straight into heaven. So we can see it as the biggest blessing to die that quick. Others live a long life and in the end mess up and won't make it into heaven. What a waste of time.

 

[Faithofchristian]

During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?

That's the whole problem with people in the churches, They don't question what their Pastor's, Preachers will tell them, they just sit there like a bump on a log, saying nothing.
My first question to that Pastor, would be, show as to where in what book and chapter and verses where that's written at in the Bible ?
I've cornered many Pastors on such topics as this.
If they can not produce where it's written at in the Bible, then it's only what they are saying.
Which leads me to Christ Jesus said about the teachings and doctrines of man's in the book of Matthew 15:7-9---"
"Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying"

8 "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me"

9 "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

Mark 7:13---" Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which you have delivered: and many such like things do you"

To many Pastors holds themselves on a pedestal that like they can do no wrong.
All because people do not hold them accountable on what they are preaching.

If you or the people in your church do not hold your pastor accountable on what he speaks, by the bible, you all are as much at fault as he is.
When Christ Jesus was here on earth, why do you suppose Christ Jesus held the Pharisees accountable on what they were saying to the people.
Christ Jesus being our example, was in the showing, to hold those accountable on what they are preaching to the people.

Many Pastors will get upset, but then so did the Pharisees to Christ Jesus.
But that did not stop Christ Jesus from holding them accountable.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. there is nothing to suggest otherwise and King David said "I will see him again..." in context to Heaven.

Probably in the audience hall where God will sit in judgment. Again, I do not think anyone has gone to heavens yet, whether of YHWH or Allah. First the Court must sit.

I had a brother who died the second day.

Elder, younger, by how many years, Stvdv? LDS people can always help. They provide baptism even after death, even if someone has messed it up.

 

[BSM1]

I disagree.

Not surprising, I get this all the time. So enlighten me. Show me one church that truly fosters individual thinking?