Abortion

[Storm]

Proving once again that pro-lifers are much more reasonable than the pro-choicers. We allow exceptions while the pro-choicers have none and then they have the temerity to call us 'dogmatic.' That's rich.

What's so dogmatic about "make your own choice?"

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Storm,

What's so dogmatic about "make your own choice?"

The liberal dogma is no restriction on abortion at all which even includes the truly disgusting paractice of partial birth abortion. And you don't see any liberals deviating from this dogma, at least not ones pursuing the oval office.

 

[Storm]

Hi Storm,



The liberal dogma is no restriction on abortion at all which even includes the truly disgusting paractice of partial birth abortion. And you don't see any liberals deviating from this dogma, at least not ones pursuing the oval office.

Bull.

 

[Acim]

..shet

(oops, wrong thread. Thought this was games forum)

 

[ninerbuff]

Hi niner,



That is the only exception; however I would allow other exceptions in cases of rape and/or incest in the case of abortion laws. Thus, being more flexible that any run-of-the-mill pro-choice liberal out there. In the 2008 presidential election when Democrats were fighting for the nomination early on and they had about 8 or 9 candidates debating, not one could even come out against partial birth abortion while the Republicans had pro-life and pro-choice candidates running.

Then according to catholic following, you're no different the "liberals" since the catholic church is against abortions even is cases of rape/incest.
So do you make up "your" ethical rules or do you follow the rules of your faith? Doesn't sound like it.

 

[Oneatatime]

Let's say a 9 year old girl was raped and her mom died earlier than this, her dad was a poor, drunk. The girl had nobody else but her dad in that poor hillbilly place. Let's say her dad was a farmer who lived in a town by other farmers. One day while her dad went to milk the cows, one of the neighbors raped her, and nine months later she was pregnant.

Would it be fine for her to get an abortion?

Its not neccessary to conjure up such an extreme hypothetical situation for abortion to be acceptable.

In this case there is a strong arguement for abortion assuming this is what the girl wants.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Storm,

Bull.

I wish this was a stunning refutation of my point but it is not. You obviously missed my point about liberals running for president (it was tough to catch, being the second sentence and all). Not one candidate running to capture the Democratic nomination came out for the ban on partial birth abortion. In fact, one debate happened right about the time the Supreme Court upheld the ban of partial birth abortion, the candidates were asked about it and the ones that answered were against it and were 'troubled.'

And we know that since liberals don't like Americans voting they took the abortion issue largely out of our hands with the horrendous (even liberal legal minds admit this) Roe v Wade deicsion thus making the executive office the most important office to affect political change when it comes to abortion (by nominating pro-Roe judges).

So, what liberal running for president in 2008 was for the ban on partial birth abortion?

 

[Storm]

Hi Storm,



I wish this was a stunning refutation of my point but it is not. You obviously missed my point about liberals running for president (it was tough to catch, being the second sentence and all). Not one candidate running to capture the Democratic nomination came out for the ban on partial birth abortion. In fact, one debate happened right about the time the Supreme Court upheld the ban of partial birth abortion, the candidates were asked about it and the ones that answered were against it and were 'troubled.'

And we know that since liberals don't like Americans voting they took the abortion issue largely out of our hands with the horrendous (even liberal legal minds admit this) Roe v Wade deicsion thus making the executive office the most important office to affect political change when it comes to abortion (by nominating pro-Roe judges).

So, what liberal running for president in 2008 was for the ban on partial birth abortion?

You're right I missed that. It was late.

ETA: Do you think it's fair to characterize all liberals based on the scumbags who run for office?

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi niner,

Then according to catholic following, you're no different the "liberals" since the catholic church is against abortions even is cases of rape/incest.
So do you make up "your" ethical rules or do you follow the rules of your faith? Doesn't sound like it.

Are we being a little schizophrenic now? I follow my church's teaching on abortion, but I would allow the exception for rape/incest in abortion laws. So, I should be a theocrat now? And you're criticizing me for being more flexible and reasonable than liberal pro-choicers, alright, carry on.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Storm,

ETA: Do you think it's fair to characterize all liberals based on the scumbags who run for office?

There was certainly a lot of enthusiasm for the candidates and I don't recall a clamor for more pro-life Democratic candidates by rank-and-file liberals in the Democratic Party.

 

[Storm]

There was certainly a lot of enthusiasm for the candidates and I don't recall a clamor for more pro-life Democratic candidates by rank-and-file liberals in the Democratic Party.

I'll admit it, Obama gave me hope for the first time in a long time. Let me down, but that's another thread.

Anyway, put yourself in our shoes. The fight is choice or no choice, and every time we make concessions, it bites us in the ***.

Personally, I'm all for that ban. So, no. it's not fair to say "liberals aren't."

 

[Koldo]

I wish this was a stunning refutation of my point but it is not. You obviously missed my point about liberals running for president (it was tough to catch, being the second sentence and all). Not one candidate running to capture the Democratic nomination came out for the ban on partial birth abortion. In fact, one debate happened right about the time the Supreme Court upheld the ban of partial birth abortion, the candidates were asked about it and the ones that answered were against it and were 'troubled.'

And we know that since liberals don't like Americans voting they took the abortion issue largely out of our hands with the horrendous (even liberal legal minds admit this) Roe v Wade deicsion thus making the executive office the most important office to affect political change when it comes to abortion (by nominating pro-Roe judges).

So, what liberal running for president in 2008 was for the ban on partial birth abortion?

Straw man.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Storm,

I'll admit it, Obama gave me hope for the first time in a long time. Let me down, but that's another thread.

Anyway, put yourself in our shoes. The fight is choice or no choice, and every time we make concessions, it bites us in the ***.

Personally, I'm all for that ban. So, no. it's not fair to say "liberals aren't."

Fair enough

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Koldo,

Who am I straw manning there?

 

[Storm]

Fair enough

So, with that in mind.... how are we dogmatic?

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Storm,

So, with that in mind.... how are we dogmatic?

I guess it's the dichotomy of seeing something disgusting like partial birth abortion (and being against it) but not holding your leaders feet to the fire on the issue. The status quo of being dogmatically pro-choice wins out personal feelings about some abortion procedures notwithstanding.

 

[Storm]

I guess it's the dichotomy of seeing something disgusting like partial birth abortion (and being against it) but not holding your leaders feet to the fire on the issue. The status quo of being dogmatically pro-choice wins out personal feelings about some abortion procedures notwithstanding.

Ah.... fair enough. I'm sure I could make the same criticisms of the conservative base/ leader relationship, though.

 

[Koldo]

Koldo,

Who am I straw manning there?

Not 'who', rather 'what'.

You are trying to defend your argument ( that pro-choicers do not allow exceptions in their position ) by presenting the USA president election in 2008. As if those candidates could represent the opinion of every pro-choice person.

 

[ninerbuff]

Hi niner,



Are we being a little schizophrenic now? I follow my church's teaching on abortion, but I would allow the exception for rape/incest in abortion laws. So, I should be a theocrat now? And you're criticizing me for being more flexible and reasonable than liberal pro-choicers, alright, carry on.

Uh no, according to catholic faith you SHOULDN'T accept abortion period with the exception of consequence to mother's health. But of course, like many many catholics I know (family included) you're a fair weather follower. So yes, please carry on with your fair weather "catholic" faith.:cover:

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Koldo,

You are trying to defend your argument ( that pro-choicers do not allow exceptions in their position ) by presenting the USA president election in 2008. As if those candidates could represent the opinion of every pro-choice person.

Of course the reason I made that point is because the executive office is the only major institution that can affect political change when it comes to abortion (by nominating justices to the high court). There is a reason you don't hear much about abortion in House and Senate elections, aside for voting for a justice (and the rare case something like a partial birth ban vote comes up) there is little you can do on the issue.

I assume pro-choicers know that and yet they still do not want a president that allows even modest curbs on abortion, thus making them dogmatic on the issue of abortion.