Abortion

[Subduction Zone]

Good.
You'd be surprised how many feticide rights people don't think that the life cycle of a Primate applies to human beings.
Tom

You are simply wrong in this statement. And using loaded terminology is not an honest approach to the problem. This is a dishonest attempt to shift the burden of proof at the best.

 

[columbus]

I tried reason with you, it did not work. All that is left is ridicule.

Really?
I'm not impressed with your reasoning.
My recollection was something about religion and cognitive dissonance. Nothing to do with me.
Tom

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really?
I'm not impressed with your reasoning.
My recollection was something about religion and cognitive dissonance. Nothing to do with me.
Tom

There is severe cognitive dissonance on your part. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

 

[columbus]

You are still making the same error of assuming that a fetus is a human being.

I read it in a science textbook.
You might want to try that.

Or continue posting like a Creationist, where science doesn't matter if it interferes with a pre-existing condition.
Tom

 

[columbus]

There is severe cognitive dissonance on your part.

Where?
Tom

 

[Subduction Zone]

I read it in a science textbook.
You might want to try that.

Or continue posting like a Creationist, where science doesn't matter if it interferes with a pre-existing condition.
Tom

I understood that textbook. You obviously did not. Your misapplication of science does you no good here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where?
Tom

You keep claiming that a fetus is human but the best that you can offer is an equivocation fallacy. If you want to claim that a fetus has the same rights as a person the burden of proof is upon you. Failed analogies do you no good in this debate, you need to prove your claim first, then you can apply the analogies that you have been trying to use.

 

[Curious George]

It's rather like driving a car.
If you can't take responsibility for the possible outcome of causing harm, then driving is irresponsible.
Same with sex. If having potentially fertile sex, while in a situation where you'd rather kill your offspring than provide the most basic needs, you are behaving irresponsibly.
Tom

Again that is a matter of perspective. Calling someone irresponsible is really just name calling here. I get that you feel they are irresponsible but the argument making that connection has not been shown.

 

[Curious George]

Good.
You'd be surprised how many feticide rights people don't think that the life cycle of a Primate applies to human beings.
Tom

The problem here, for many, is the term "human being" as distinguished from "homo sapiens" It is a waste of time to argue over definitions. If you want to call them human beings that is fine. I am okay with justified killings of human beings.

 

[allright]

You are not paying attention. I don't know. You don't know. You can't ban an activity based upon a lack of knowledge. The only ones that can be said to know are those that are pregnant in regards to their own pregnancy. Until you prove that it is a "human" life the burden of proof is upon those opposing abortion.

Your not sure if a baby in its ninth month is a human

 

[columbus]

I am okay with justified killings of human beings.

Who does the justifying?
You? Hitler? 19th century slavers? Genghis Khan? Cortez? Mao? Pol Pot? Roy Moore?

I am a hard core Pro-Lifer. I am not Ok with anybody choosing death for other human beings.
Tom

 

[Curious George]

Who does the justifying?
You? Hitler? 19th century slavers? Genghis Khan? Cortez? Mao? Pol Pot? Roy Moore?

I am a hard core Pro-Lifer. I am not Ok with anybody choosing death for other human beings.
Tom

Well each individual does the justifying, they are the ones who are making the choice. If there is no justification for you imposing the restriction not to kill, then it is a justified killings because it is within their choice.

You don't believe in self defense? On what grounds do you exempt human beings. If you are a hardcore pro lifer why not be against any loss of life? You can enjoy martyrdom and turning the other cheek. I am realistic about the world. I believe killing is a part of it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am a hard core Pro-Lifer. I am not Ok with anybody choosing death for other human beings.

Anybody except people like Savita Halappanavar, right?

 

[columbus]

Anybody except people like Savita Halappanavar, right?

I don't know who that is.
Tom

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't know who that is.
Tom

There was a link.

Savita Halappanavar was a pregnant woman who was admitted to an Irish hospital with a blood infection. She needed an abortion to address the problem, but Irish law prohibits abortion except to save the woman's life. Because of this, the doctors waited... despite the fact that they deemed a miscarriage inevitable and despite the fact that Halappanavar requested one. They waited until the fetus actually miscarried before taking action. By the time they did, it was too late: she became septic and died.

This is the sort of situation that is created by laws that prohibit abortion except to save the woman's life: they make doctors unwilling to do life-saving abortions unless they're sure the woman is past the point where, at an inquest or trial after the fact, no expert witness would be able to say "it's possible she could have survived without an abortion."

So you are okay with those deaths, right?

 

[columbus]

Well each individual does the justifying, they are the ones who are making the choice.

No, actually we don't.
We humans learn from each other.
And get better at living quality lives.
Tim

 

[Curious George]

There was a link.

Savita Halappanavar was a pregnant woman who was admitted to an Irish hospital with a blood infection. She needed an abortion to address the problem, but Irish law prohibits abortion except to save the woman's life. Because of this, the doctors waited... despite the fact that they deemed a miscarriage inevitable and despite the fact that Halappanavar requested one. They waited until the fetus actually miscarried before taking action. By the time they did, it was too late: she became septic and died.

This is the sort of situation that is created by laws that prohibit abortion except to save the woman's life: they make doctors unwilling to do life-saving abortions unless they're sure the woman is past the point where, at an inquest or trial after the fact, no expert witness would be able to say "it's possible she could have survived without an abortion."

So you are okay with those deaths, right?

As I understood him, he is not okay for choosing to kill a human (including all stages of the human life cycle for any reason). In other words, he is not okay with abortion even to save the pregnant woman's life.

 

[columbus]

So you are okay with those deaths, right?

I've explained what I mean by Pro-Life.
Have you read any of it?
Tom

 

[Curious George]

No, actually we don't.
We humans learn from each other.
And get better at living quality lives.
Tim

That makes no sense in this context. If someone is about to kill my son and I kill them first, I made a decision. I justified that decision on my beliefs. So how is it not the individual who does the justifying?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've explained what I mean by Pro-Life.
Have you read any of it?
Tom

You said that you're not okay with choosing death for other human beings.

So how would you deal with the issue of pregnant women whose lives are at risk?