Abortion

[Messianic Israelite]

No problem, really. Except that I'm a hardcore Prolifer, and I very much care about what improves the human situation and what does not.

Leaving an ectopic pregnancy alone and hoping God fixes it is not at all pro-life, in my very firm opinion.


I have no idea why you'd think it was. I've never heard of it. I don't really care. I do know that there's lots of internet sources for false medical opinions which match some religion or anothers faith.

I have a bit of education on the subject of ectopic pregnancies, I didn't just hear about it today.
There are two main reasons for this.
1) My own mother would have died from ectopic pregnancy, back in the 50s, if surgical abortion had not been an option. She and Dad wanted a big family. But their second pregnancy went awry. She survived, and they went on to adopt the flock of kids they wanted.
But if they and the doctors had waited around for God to fix things, she'd have died and that would have been that.
2) I'm quite opposed to elective abortions, but I also realize that pregnancy is a chancy proposition. Some pregnancies are just doomed from the start. Learning to sort out the risks and benefits was important to me, so that I had an informed Prolifer ethic. Not just something someone told me to believe.


What I know is that the medical profession does things that God doesn't do! If Yahweh did these things humans wouldn't happen to find ways to do them on our own. But He doesn't, or can't, or refuses to, or whatever. Sufficient evidence for me that there is no God who cares about anything. By "sufficient evidence", I mean proof.
I have proof that there is no God who cares about anything, much less humans. God doesn't care what we believe, do, or what happens to us.
And ectopic pregnancy is strong evidence.

Your beliefs about Yahweh are strong evidence that your God is a human invention.
Tom

Hi Colombus. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate that. It's a hard subject. But if things didn't go wrong in life, there would be no way for Yahweh to work a miracle for us. I believe in Yahweh. The true and living Elohim. Yahweh isn't any Mighty One. He is the one and only. The Creator of heavens and earth. Most people go on believing in a nameless mighty one as Acts 17:23 says, but we exercise trust in Almighty Yahweh.

"What therefore ye worship in ignorance, this I set forth unto you. 24 Yahweh that made the world and all things therein, he, being Master of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 and he made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 that they should seek Yahweh, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us"

He is able to do all things. But I know I wouldn't be able to convince you just by saying so. What I do know is that doctors have many times told mother's to terminate their pregnancy's because they have claimed their babies wouldn't survive birth. Many babies have been born and grown up healthy in defiance to what doctors and medical staff have advised. To an unbeliever, the idea that Yahweh would intervene and work a miracle is ridiculous. I can understand that. Many times, the unbeliever has not experienced Yahweh's grace in the same way a believer has. The opinion that I hold is undoubtedly not the popular one. I understand that too. But you have to understand that I fear Yahweh. I wouldn't want to go anywhere near the possibility of ending a life. We turn to prayer. And prayer works.

Hebrews 4:16 says:
"Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

​

Many babies have been born and grown up healthy in defiance to what doctors and medical staff have advised.

What percentage, according to whom, and how do you account for those instances where this does not happen?

 

[Messianic Israelite]

What percentage, according to whom, and how do you account for those instances where this does not happen?

Hi Jayhawker. Good morning. As far as I know, they don't keep statistics I'm afraid. But a search on the internet will find examples when doctors have been proven wrong in this way. Doctors are of course right sometimes, but in our faith we express faith in Yahweh. We have to. I wouldn't be worthy of using the Name if I didn't have faith in Him.

You may want to read this article also:
Tragically Wrong: When Good Early Pregnancies Are Misdiagnosed As Bad

I have included a quote below:
"A beautiful, supremely talented young friend of our family recently fell victim to a terrible medical mistake. Newly married, she was having some pelvic pain and bleeding, and the doctor who saw her diagnosed a probable ectopic pregnancy — an embryo that develops outside the womb. Concerned that such pregnancies can turn life-threatening, the doctor prescribed the standard treatment: methotrexate, a drug used for chemotherapy and to help induce abortions.

When our friend returned to be checked a few days later, the imaging revealed that in fact, the pregnancy had not been ectopic; it was in place, in her uterus. But because she had taken the methotrexate, a known cause of birth defects, her pregnancy was doomed. She soon miscarried. What may have been a perfectly healthy pregnancy had been ended by well-meant medical treatment."

This is disturbing. But it just goes to substantiate what I've been saying.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hi Jayhawker. Good morning. As far as I know, they don't keep statistics I'm afraid. But a search on the internet will find examples when doctors have been proven wrong in this way. Doctors are of course right sometimes, but in our faith we express faith in Yahweh. We have to. I wouldn't be worthy of using the Name if I didn't have faith in Him.

So, let's try this again ...

Many babies have been born and grown up healthy in defiance to what doctors and medical staff have advised.

What percentage, according to whom, and how do you account for those instances where this does not happen?

I asked three questions.

• Your response to the first (what percentage?) appears to be "I don't know," and yet you claim "many."
• Your response to the second (according to whom?) appears to be "the internet," which is laughable on the face of it.
• Your response to the third ...
  
  (how do you account for those instances where this does not happen?)​
  appears to be silence.

Throughout you've impressed me as someone with no medical expertise or credibility. That is not a criticism; the same could be said of me. But it begs an additional question: Do you think it ethical to risk life by offering implied medical advice suggesting that informed medical judgments be discounted or dismissed?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As I've noted before, Abortion in Judaism by Rabbi Daniel Schiff is, while not an easy read, well worth reading.