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About Jinns

gnostic

The Lost One
The spiritual beings known as djinns or jinns figured largely in the Qur'an; even more so than the hadiths. There are no jinns in the bible.

It would seem that the jinns existed before the Qur'an, when Arabs believed in polytheistic systems, hence the jinns are spirits of pre-Islamic folklore.

Why did Muhammad believed in something that started before he founded his religion? Was he superstitious?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I think the Biblical equivalence of the djinns are demons. Basically two terms describing the same thing. But I've only read the first three surah's of the Qur'an and there's not a lot on djinns in those ones, save for a passing reference to Iblis, that is Satan, so I don't really know much about them.

But I would say that Mohammad was superstitious... just like the rest of us. ^_^ (I mean no disrespect; I know I'm superstitious)
 

tariqkhwaja

Jihad Against Terrorism
Assalamualaikum.

Modern day mainstream Islamic interpretations of the word "Jinn" state Jinn to be some sort of demonic existence that take over humans sometimes and control them for their own ends. Kind of like in that movie "Exorcism of Emily Rose" (which I have not seen though I think the challenge is worth it). These are just rubbish interpretations drawn out by Ulema who lacked guidance from revelation.

However, the Quran claims Jinn are ...

before I get into that please note that the following is a gist of or quotations from The Jinn. Again very interesting read stating that ...

the "Jinn" can refer to various meanings.

It literally means anything which has the connotation of concealment, invisibility, seclusion and remoteness.

The meaning I will try to prove here is that the Jinn refer to the several Microorganisms (bacteria and viruses (though viruses are not really organisms)).

Firstly, microorganisms are not visible to the naked eye and the use of the word "Jinn" for them would make sense. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) strongly admonished people not to use dried up lumps of dung or bones of dead animals for cleaning themselves after attending to the call of nature because they are food for the jinn.

The Quran describes them as having been born out of blasts of fire (from the cosmos).
Arabic_Page364_1.gif
"And the Jinn We created before that (the creation of man) from blasts of fire (naris-samum)."

Here the adjective used to describe the nature of the particular fire from which the jinn were created is Samum, which means a blazing fire or a blast that has no smoke. We find a similar statement in another Quranic verse:
Arabic_Page364_2.gif
"And the Jinn He created from the flame of fire."

According to the accepted scientific studies, direct heat from fire had to play a vital role in the creation and maintenance of pre-biotic organisms. This, in fact was the only mode of transfer of energy for the consumption of organized forms of existence during this era.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
The spiritual beings known as djinns or jinns figured largely in the Qur'an; even more so than the hadiths. There are no jinns in the bible.

It would seem that the jinns existed before the Qur'an, when Arabs believed in polytheistic systems, hence the jinns are spirits of pre-Islamic folklore.

Why did Muhammad believed in something that started before he founded his religion? Was he superstitious?

Islam is not religion of one man. it is religion of God. Mohammad (PBUH) did not write Qur'an. each verse of Noble Qur'an was said by God. so, it is not our Prophet who tells about Jinns, it is God. Jinns are creatures with free will. just like any human, jinns either follow commands of God or they follow satan. (for that matter they either earn heaven or hell, just like humans) Jinns are not Spirits. actually we have Spirit of God but they don't have it. that's why there are no Prophets among jinns but there are messengers among them too. if a jinn follow satan he is called demon. during the time when people (as they still do today) were worshiping idols, statues, demons used to give them satanic orders. demons can settle in a statue. they can answer and talk. they can also settle down in physical bodies of humans. because the are not made of mud. they are made of energy. so they could easily go through physical stuff.




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TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The spiritual beings known as djinns or jinns figured largely in the Qur'an; even more so than the hadiths. There are no jinns in the bible.

It would seem that the jinns existed before the Qur'an, when Arabs believed in polytheistic systems, hence the jinns are spirits of pre-Islamic folklore.

Why did Muhammad believed in something that started before he founded his religion? Was he superstitious?

I think the Biblical equivalence of the djinns are demons. Basically two terms describing the same thing. But I've only read the first three surah's of the Qur'an and there's not a lot on djinns in those ones, save for a passing reference to Iblis, that is Satan, so I don't really know much about them.

But I would say that Mohammad was superstitious... just like the rest of us. ^_^ (I mean no disrespect; I know I'm superstitious)

There is an entire Chapter "Surah" called Al-Jinn. It's chapter 72. And by the way, Jinn were created by God before man, and they have been on earth before Adam was sent down to it. That's why, when Allah told Angels he was going to create Adam, they were afraid we would be as bad as them. That's why you can read in the Quran the following:

[30] Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate Thy praise and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."


[31] And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell Me the names of these if ye are right."


[32] They said: "Glory to Thee: of knowledge we have none, save what Thou hast taught us: in truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom." (Quran 2:30-32)

The scholars said, the angels were disappointed of what Jinns have done, and they thought Adam and his sons would be like them. They didn't know that Adam is capable of doing good more than evil even though he has a choice to do evil, unlike angels who just don't have free will to do evil.
Assalamualaikum.

Modern day mainstream Islamic interpretations of the word "Jinn" state Jinn to be some sort of demonic existence that take over humans sometimes and control them for their own ends. Kind of like in that movie "Exorcism of Emily Rose" (which I have not seen though I think the challenge is worth it). These are just rubbish interpretations drawn out by Ulema who lacked guidance from revelation.

However, the Quran claims Jinn are ...

before I get into that please note that the following is a gist of or quotations from The Jinn. Again very interesting read stating that ...

the "Jinn" can refer to various meanings.



The meaning I will try to prove here is that the Jinn refer to the several Microorganisms (bacteria and viruses (though viruses are not really organisms)).

Firstly, microorganisms are not visible to the naked eye and the use of the word "Jinn" for them would make sense. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) strongly admonished people not to use dried up lumps of dung or bones of dead animals for cleaning themselves after attending to the call of nature because they are food for the jinn.

The Quran describes them as having been born out of blasts of fire (from the cosmos).
Arabic_Page364_1.gif
"And the Jinn We created before that (the creation of man) from blasts of fire (naris-samum)."

Here the adjective used to describe the nature of the particular fire from which the jinn were created is Samum, which means a blazing fire or a blast that has no smoke. We find a similar statement in another Quranic verse:
Arabic_Page364_2.gif
"And the Jinn He created from the flame of fire."

According to the accepted scientific studies, direct heat from fire had to play a vital role in the creation and maintenance of pre-biotic organisms. This, in fact was the only mode of transfer of energy for the consumption of organized forms of existence during this era.

Jinn can mean various things, but the main word mentioned in the Quran is very specififc, and it means creatures who look different than us, created from fire, and they can see us, but we can't. Some of them are muslims and others not.

[1] Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur-an). They said, ' We have really heard a wonderful Recital!

[2] 'It gives guidance to the Right, and we have believed therein: we shall not join (in worship) any (gods) with our Lord.

[3] `And exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son.

[4] 'There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter extravagant lies against Allah;

[5] `But we do think that no man or spirit should say aught that is untrue against Allah. (Quran 72:1-5)

You might as well read the rest of the verses. Actually, the Jinn were talking about their experience with listenining to the Quran, and they expressed that Satan "he is a jinn too who misguided many of jinns and men" was saying lies about God, and they never expected that someone would ever dare to do such a thing. I advice you all to read the rest of the verses and i posted only some of them because my time is limited here because i have got lot of things to do.

Anyway, this conversations happened between Jinn amongst themselves when they listened to Prophet Mohammed reciting the Quran, then Allah reveleaed these verses to Prophet Mohammed after that incident.
 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
I advice you all to read the rest of the verses and i posted only some of them because my time is limited here because i have got lot of things to do.
Anyway, this conversations happened between Jinn amongst themselves when they listened to Prophet Mohammed reciting the Quran, then Allah reveleaed these verses to Prophet Mohammed after that incident.

This is the whole Quranic chapter of Al-Jinn (The Jinn) # 72

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
1. Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur'an). They said, 'We have really heard a wonderful Recital!
2. 'It gives guidance to the Right, and we have believed therein: we shall not join (in worship) any (gods) with our Lord.
3. 'And Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son.
4. 'There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter extravagant lies against Allah.
5. 'But we do think that no man or spirit should say aught that untrue against Allah.
6. 'True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the Jinns, but they increased them in folly.
7. 'And they (came to) think as ye thought, that Allah would not raise up any one (to Judgment).
8. 'And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.
9. 'We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.
10. 'And we understand not whether ill is intended to those on earth, or whether their Lord (really) intends to guide them to right conduct.
11. 'There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths.
12. 'But we think that we can by no means frustrate Allah throughout the earth, nor can we frustrate Him by flight.
13. 'And as for us, since we have listened to the Guidance, we have accepted it: and any who believes in his Lord has no fear, either of a short (account) or of any injustice.
14. 'Amongst us are some that submit their wills (to Allah., and some that swerve from justice. Now those who submit their wills - they have sought out (the path) of right conduct:
15. 'But those who swerve,- they are (but) fuel for Hell-fire'-
16. (And Allah.s Message is): "If they (the Pagans) had (only) remained on the (right) Way, We should certainly have bestowed on them Rain in abundance.
17. "That We might try them by that (means). But if any turns away from the remembrance of his Lord, He will cause him to undergo a severe Penalty.
18. "And the places of worship are for Allah (alone): So invoke not any one along with Allah.
19. "Yet when the Devotee of Allah stands forth to invoke Him, they just make round him a dense crowd."
20. Say: "I do no more than invoke my Lord, and I join not with Him any (false god)."
21. Say: "It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to right conduct."
22. Say: "No one can deliver me from Allah (If I were to disobey Him), nor should I find refuge except in Him,
23. "Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."
24. At length, when they see (with their own eyes) that which they are promised,- then will they know who it is that is weakest in (his) helper and least important in point of numbers.
25. Say: "I know not whether the (Punishment) which ye are promised is near, or whether my Lord will appoint for it a distant term.
26. "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,-
27. "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,
28. "That He may know that they have (truly) brought and delivered the Messages of their Lord: and He surrounds (all the mysteries) that are with them, and takes account of every single thing."

Yusuf Ali Translation
 
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tariqkhwaja

Jihad Against Terrorism
Tashan you have no idea. You simply have no idea. The treasure and proofs Islam posesses for believers and disbelievers. You and all your Muslim brethren who reject the Imam Mahdi that God appointed. You take the Quranic words at face value and have no idea of the treasures stored in them.

I am saying this out of sympathy. My heart is boiling with sympathy.

Did you read the Tafseer of Alhamdolillah I gave on the same-faith forum? Can any of your biggest scholars today give Tafseer a thousandths of its value? I realized non-Muslims did not respond because they probably did not care to give the Quran credit for summarizing itself in the statement "Alhamdolillah". But even Muslims ... even Muslims did not care to reply. I did not discover that Tafseer and claim no part of it and do not care for praise. But the sympathy that arises ...
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
I think you'll find that Jinn (as defined as fire elementals) are mentioned in the bible, at least analogically. The elementals are usually defined as Salamander (Fire), Undines (Water), Sylphs (Air), and Gnomes (Earth). The concept of a Salamander has close affinity to a Dragon, which certainly appears in Biblical literature.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
.lava said:
Islam is not religion of one man. it is religion of God. Mohammad (PBUH) did not write Qur'an. each verse of Noble Qur'an was said by God. so, it is not our Prophet who tells about Jinns, it is God.
About the divine authorship of the Qur'an, that's a matter of view.

As to the matter of Jinns, they existed before in pre-Islamic or if you like in pagan Arabia. It would suggest that your Muhammad couldn't throw off pagan superstition.

But if you think your God was the true author, then I must say he is fanciful storyteller. For religion that supposed to believer of science and who don't believe in ghouls and goblins of other cultures, the Muslims swallowed pagan fairytales of their own version of ghouls and goblins.
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
tariqkhwaja said:
Did you read the Tafseer of Alhamdolillah I gave on the same-faith forum? Can any of your biggest scholars today give Tafseer a thousandths of its value? I realized non-Muslims did not respond because they probably did not care to give the Quran credit for summarizing itself in the statement "Alhamdolillah". But even Muslims ... even Muslims did not care to reply.
If the topic is in "Same Faith" forum, then usually non-Muslims would usually not response to the topic because it was not meant for them.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
nehustan said:
I think you'll find that Jinn (as defined as fire elementals) are mentioned in the bible, at least analogically. The elementals are usually defined as Salamander (Fire), Undines (Water), Sylphs (Air), and Gnomes (Earth). The concept of a Salamander has close affinity to a Dragon, which certainly appears in Biblical literature.

If you are saying that these salamanders are jinns, then I would think th.....Hell! I don't know what to think except that it is silly.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
About the divine authorship of the Qur'an, that's a matter of view.

As to the matter of Jinns, they existed before in pre-Islamic or if you like in pagan Arabia. It would suggest that your Muhammad couldn't throw off pagan superstition.

But if you think your God was the true author, then I must say he is fanciful storyteller. For religion that supposed to believer of science and who don't believe in ghouls and goblins of other cultures, the Muslims swallowed pagan fairytales of their own version of ghouls and goblins.

Pagan? Hello??? I already mentioned that they were created before Adam was ever created.
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
If you are saying that these salamanders are jinns, then I would think th.....Hell! I don't know what to think except that it is silly.

I'm not talking strictly about the biological species called salamanders, but more their mythic role. I think the actual name for the species means 'fire within'. The name Salamander is often used as a synonym for jinn in the magical traditions. I'll see if I can find a link for you...

Fire elementals

Not great...but it will have to do...
 

gnostic

The Lost One
tashaN said:
Pagan? Hello??? I already mentioned that they were created before Adam was ever created.
But that's only from the perspective of WHEN the Qur'an was written. It's after the fact that you think they were created before Adam.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
About the divine authorship of the Qur'an, that's a matter of view.

As to the matter of Jinns, they existed before in pre-Islamic or if you like in pagan Arabia. It would suggest that your Muhammad couldn't throw off pagan superstition.

But if you think your God was the true author, then I must say he is fanciful storyteller. For religion that supposed to believer of science and who don't believe in ghouls and goblins of other cultures, the Muslims swallowed pagan fairytales of their own version of ghouls and goblins.

Qur'an proves itself.

for jinns..jinns were created long before human. jinns are not superstitious. radio waves are scientific enough. we don't see them but we can prove they exist. you can't see jinns is not proof for they are fairy tales. if you manage to see energy you'd see jinns too. matter of fact, you probably already did. but even if you see a demon who's shaped like human you would not be able to understand he is a demon. you'd think that is a man. they could take any shape. cat, dog...etc. jinns do not belong pagan cultures. they have their own cultures. USA government knows, so does Russians. therefor they pay for parapsycologic researches.




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gnostic

The Lost One
.lava said:
for jinns..jinns were created long before human. jinns are not superstitious. radio waves are scientific enough. we don't see them but we can prove they exist. you can't see jinns is not proof for they are fairy tales. if you manage to see energy you'd see jinns too. matter of fact, you probably already did. but even if you see a demon who's shaped like human you would not be able to understand he is a demon. you'd think that is a man. they could take any shape. cat, dog...etc. jinns do not belong pagan cultures. they have their own cultures. USA government knows, so does Russians. therefor they pay for parapsycologic researches.

This is clumsy attempt of trying to prove jinn being real and fact. You need more than to prove anything to be a fact, like "evidences" for example.

Can you prove that jinn disguise as human, cat, dog, etc?

Not only they (jinns) existed in the time of among the polytheistic and pre-Islamic nomadic Arabic tribes, the jinns is not that a very ancient concept, because even the word (jinn) is not of Arabic origin.

Jinn comes from the Roman (or Latin) word, genius, one of the many guardian spirits that can manifest as a person, animal or even inanimate object in appearance. Genius in plural is genii. The words - jinn, djinn and genie - were all derived from the Roman word, genius.

Also the words or names, Iblis and Shaytan, never existed until the Qur'an was written.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is clumsy attempt of trying to prove jinn being real and fact. You need more than to prove anything to be a fact, like "evidences" for example.

Can you prove that jinn disguise as human, cat, dog, etc?

Not only they (jinns) existed in the time of among the polytheistic and pre-Islamic nomadic Arabic tribes, the jinns is not that a very ancient concept, because even the word (jinn) is not of Arabic origin.

Jinn comes from the Roman (or Latin) word, genius, one of the many guardian spirits that can manifest as a person, animal or even inanimate object in appearance. Genius in plural is genii. The words - jinn, djinn and genie - were all derived from the Roman word, genius.

Also the words or names, Iblis and Shaytan, never existed until the Qur'an was written.

So anything mentioned in the Quran is considered to be invalid in this discussion?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
TashaN said:
So anything mentioned in the Quran is considered to be invalid in this discussion?

Actually I think the Qur'an is relevant, but only because it was written in the 7th century CE, not before. And not in the way you think.

The origin of Islam only existed with Muhammad, also in the 7th century CE. Before Muhammad, the nomadic Arab clans and tribes were polytheistic.

Yours (and other Muslims) assertion that the Qur'an (and Islam) existed before Muhammad's time and that Allah is the original author of the Qur'an, is only based on faith, not facts. You have no physical evidences to prove such thing, just as you have no evidences of the existence of a god.

Qur'an, Islam and Muslims only began with Muhammad, and without supporting evidences they didn't exist until Muhammad. If you believe it to be so, then I can't argue you what you believe because you are entitled to your belief and faith, but don't confuse faith with fact, because they are not always mutually inclusive.

You have no proof of the existence of jinn, let alone angels or demons, and more importantly, of Allah (just as Jews and Christians have no proof).

And I need far more than just your prophet's words (or any other prophets' for that matter).
 

Nehustan

Well-Known Member
Jinn comes from the Roman (or Latin) word, genius, one of the many guardian spirits that can manifest as a person, animal or even inanimate object in appearance. Genius in plural is genii. The words - jinn, djinn and genie - were all derived from the Roman word, genius.

The word Jinn comes from the Arabic root JNN from which derives multiple words, all having some sense of 'concealment'...

Nehustan said:
the word for madness in Arabic, al-junun, and its variations are said to derive from the same root as the word jinn with the ‘literal meaning of the word Jinn’ coming ‘from the verb Janna, Yajunnu: “to cover, hide or conceal”’ (Philips, 1997, p.78). As Al-Issa delineates, ‘for most Muslims, al-junun (being possessed by the jinni or spirit) is madness’ (Al-Issa1, 2000, p.xv). A famous Arabic saying states, ‘Al-junun funun "madness is of many kinds"’ (Al-Ezabi, 1994, p.192); Ibn Imran writes that ‘diversity is confusing in the eyes of the doctors, who do not have an exact knowledge of the illness because of the variety in the symptoms of the soul [nafs]’ (Dols, 1992, p.73). It is typical of the Arabic language that the linguistic root of a word leads to words of many kinds,


"The basic sense of the triliteral root "j-n-n" in Arabic is concealment (istitar); hence, all its derivations retain aspects of this meaning. And so, as al-Naysaburi illustrates, we say the night has janna, meaning night has fallen, covering everything in its darkness. The janan is the heart, since what occurs in it is concealed; it is also the tomb that shrouds and covers up. Al-jinn are the invisible beings, concealed from the eyes of mortals. Al-janna is the dense garden, with obscuring intertwined trees, as well as the warrior's armour since it shields. Al-janin is the unborn child, concealed in its mother's womb. Finally jinna is madness, and al-majnun is he whose mind's workings are concealed from others, and from himself."

Al-Ezabi, 1994, p.194
 
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.lava

Veteran Member
This is clumsy attempt of trying to prove jinn being real and fact. You need more than to prove anything to be a fact, like "evidences" for example.

Can you prove that jinn disguise as human, cat, dog, etc?

Not only they (jinns) existed in the time of among the polytheistic and pre-Islamic nomadic Arabic tribes, the jinns is not that a very ancient concept, because even the word (jinn) is not of Arabic origin.

Jinn comes from the Roman (or Latin) word, genius, one of the many guardian spirits that can manifest as a person, animal or even inanimate object in appearance. Genius in plural is genii. The words - jinn, djinn and genie - were all derived from the Roman word, genius.

Also the words or names, Iblis and Shaytan, never existed until the Qur'an was written.

do you think i can prove that i had pasta last night? can i?

first of all, i am a Muslim, a religious one. i had my own life with my experiences. i've seen things. can i prove what i experienced? they are real to me. so we speak and i share and what i am saying is not really coming from just what i was taught. i mentioned many times, i was not religious before. until the day i realized that Islam covers everyhting without gaps, i had a life. before Islam i tried to explaine my experiences with my intellect and perception. if i gave into Islam and the knowledge in Qur'an it is because it matched perfectly. it is obvious that i don't need anymore proof. my life, my experiences are fairy tales to you which i understand. and yes, there are people who would send demons on you but for me it is not friendly at all. IMO that is the worst thing i could do to a human being. like pushing wild dogs onto you. so, don't ask proof for this. because proof means demon itself, not jinns. jinns would try to stay away from you. the ones who show themselves to you are demons. demons hate people.

for language thing...i believe once upon a time there was one language. that one language of Adam(PBUH) spread all around the world. so i don't think if languages had similarities would surprise me. that is perfectly normal IMO.



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