Abraham Father of Many Nations

[Nakosis]

using your logic that abraham was a jew would make ishmael and all of hagar's and keturah's children jew too.

they aren't considered jewish.

Apparently Islam considers them all Muslim.

 

[Nakosis]

So from this book "From Earth Spirit to Sky Gods" by Bruce Lerro.

Monotheism and empire building are similar endeavors. Being able to integrate many different societies into one ruling structure requires a lot of abstract thinking. The ruling elite turned their abstract thinking towards religion uniting religious under one ruling God.

 

[J2hapydna]

IMO it's a religious myth that survived only because it was adopted as part of a national belief adopted by the Roman empire. And adopted by the Ottoman empire who also supported the religious myth.

Yeah, but you do realize that the both the Ottoman and the Roman empires were ruled from the same city Constantinople in modern Turkey?

 

[J2hapydna]

Apparently Islam considers them all Muslim.

Islam is considered the Noachide covenant. Jew refers to a subset- those who lived in the kingdom of Judea after the Israelites came out of Egypt and followed the Mosaic covenant. So strictly speaking, there were no Jews in the days of Abraham, they were all following the Noachide back then

 

[Nakosis]

Islam is considered the Noachide covenant. Jew refers to a subset- those who lived in the kingdom of Judea after the Israelites came out of Egypt and followed the Mosaic covenant. So strictly speaking, there were no Jews in the days of Abraham, they were all following the Noachide back then

From what I currently understand, prior to about 600BCE the religion of the Hebrews was Yahwism which as Judah became an empire in the absence of Assyria rule became it's national religion under the 8 year old King Josiah. What occurred prior is myth, speculation, folklore. A belief system created by the abstract thinking of the ruling elite as much as any actual events.

 

[RESOLUTION]

israel is not a person by blood, or familialism.

King James Bible
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The twelve sons of Israel,(the person named Israel) became the 12 tribes of Israel.

God is not a respecter of persons, any person. its a person who acts a certain way, like jacob.

So God changed the name of Abram to Abraham because of his promise to Abraham.
He changed Sara to Sarah because of his promise to Sara.


King James Bible
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

there is a new jerusalem, a new nation, a new heaven and a new earth. people will be divided to the left or to the right. personally i want to be in the middle with God. some will awake to everlasting life and others to everlasting guilt.

What about those who are no longer judged? Those whose sins God has forgiven and so are in the Lambs book of the living? There is no middle you chose now.

being a jew, israelite, moslem, christian, buddhist, atheist, satanist won't save you. what will save you is how you behave toward self and others.

I found how unfounded and negative of any earthly teaching that you included Satanist as not saving you??? Is Satan or anyone who would follow him saved?
Your view and statement was not based on anything you learned regarding a religion or belief in a god or gods and certainly not the true God.

If, it difficult for a pharisee to get into heaven how difficult do you believe it is for anyone outside Christ and his teachings?

 

[RESOLUTION]

Could that be because God has made foolish the things of the earthly wise?
You see nothing about an interpretation it is what it is the truth. It isn't left to interpretation where if the bible is correct God reveals the truth through the teacher.
The Sword the word of God which the Spirit gives. How do you think this truth differs to those taught by man and not God?



No! that is not seen or taught.

You see God chose the maternal and paternal for his line with Abraham.
In the Priesthood we see the mother the wife of Aaron born of the line of Judah and Judah along with the Tribe of Levi become the high priest line.
King David came from a line which was not both Jew. Ruth chose to be part of Gods people and God accepted her.
She and Obed the line king David came from. It is always about Gods choice and we see can see clearly he chose Abraham and Sarah so there could be no error in the Jewish line of Gods
chosen people and the line from Ishmael. That none of the descendants of Ishmael received any promise of God regarding being a light to the world and Abraham being the Father of many nations.

Strong's Hebrew was written by men for men.
The Word of God was written by God for the Children of God for those whom God chose before the foundation of the world.
God does not require an explanation of what the Hebrew words mean because Gods people have one teacher the Holy Spirit.

1 John 2:27 (KJV)
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John 16:1313 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Who is telling the truth? You or God in his word through Christ and the Prophets?

I believe that the best way you can test the things you believe is to look at what Christ said and what the Disciples said then the teachings of the Prophets.
What I NOTE when looking at the above is that God, Christ, the Disciples, and the Prophets support what I say.
But nothing about needing mans teachings such as Strong's Hebrew for definition of the word. According to God you need the Spirit the way all truth came to men of God
and the people he sent.
Luck is something not required or the Strong's Hebrew if men are taught by God.


31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


If you have scripture to show different I would be interested in seeing this. There is no mission or strong pattern to my beliefs it is based solely on the WORD of God and the
teachings of the Prophets and Christ. I am discussing the things written in the bible by the Prophets but you show no knowledge of one being taught by God.

But someone who belonged to God in the OT and the NT were taught by God. The words did not write themselves. The book of life was written before the foundation of
the world. But in the bible men were taught by God by the power of the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1.

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


If all men have the power of Gods Spirit presence in them today, through Christ which becomes far greater:-
The written word or the teacher within them who wrote the written word by giving it to men?

If I am wrong, then I am willing to change what I have found. But so far Gods words in the OT and the NT prove that you do not follow or know
what God actually teaches.



You mean your Strong's Hebrew? I have not yet seen you use any truth from the bible to actually prove any point you have made. I have shown OT and NT writings which show you]have no knowledge of the bible to debate with! Why is that?
The bible speaks for itself. The God of Abraham,. Isaac and Jacob.

KJV EXODUS 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

God does not forget who he is the God of, and whom he has chosen. When talking to Moses he never mentioned Ishmael because he was not the God of Ishmael for he did not choose Ishmael he only blessed him.

You will note you read the Koran too, but isn't it funny you don't obey

KJV
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


You break even the simpliest of commands when adding to the word of God something God has not commanded or revealed through his true Prophets.

In my life, I have learned and believed that Gods words guide you correctly.

The true people of God obey him and are chosen. God clearly telling Moses...

KJV EXODUS 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

I claim nothing, God himself declares who he is the Father and whom he is the God of according to the OT the Torah which he gave to Moses.

Incorrect... you were told something you read the/cherry picked bits and tried to fit it to your preconceived beliefs.
That is why you do not know or understand the things above or why you use worldly scholarly methods.


It means nothing the Israelites left Egypt and only after they left did God establish a Covenant with them. The Priestly line of Melchizedek is about Gods choice yet again.
I am not sure why the fact the wife of Aaron was from the line of Judah and the mother of the high priesthood is overlooked. Making Christ born of the line of Judah and Levi,
Mary and Elizabeth both cousins and born of the same line. But I do know whatever man teaches, God's teachings are the ones which count.
The truth is that people are chosen by God not mans beliefs.

Reuben my great grandfather was a Jew and his wife Ada both descended from Isaac.
In Joel it tells us.
Joel 2:28-32 (KJV)
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

This is how we can tell the correct Spirit.

Kjv
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh and was he the Son of God Yeshua?


I will go into the passages you REFER to in a separate discussion.

SO YOU do not believe ALL mankind came from the one surviving man Noah and his family after the flood?? If the bible is true and people of the earth descended from Noahs family then all genetically related.
But which made God people chosen? The genetic link before Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or the choice God made when he became the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
It is always Gods way.

His real name was Mahomet and the whole world is related to Abraham because the whole world came down from the same ancestor and his family, Noah.

The Ethiopian takeover of Egypt in 711 B.C which lasted 60 years. Isaiah 19:1-17
Egyptian against Egyptian Isaiah 19:2 the civil war this allowed the easy access to Egypt by the Ethiopians.

Isaiah 19: 16-22. A time when Egyptians will turn to YHWH and experience Salvation. The reference made " In that day" usually refers to the time of the Messiah through the line of Isaac, Jacob and David,

All people were Gentiles who were not born of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob.
Egypt and Assyria were typical Gentiles. and with Israel would experience the salvation through the Messiah. Isaiah 19:22-25.

Your thinking is incorrect. For anyone not born of the Jews were Gentiles including Egypt and Assyria. Ishmael and any descendants were not part of the chosen people of God through the tribes of Israel. So any descendant of Mahomet or Ishmael were not part of the chosen people they were Gentiles.
Which was used for anyone not born of the tribes of Israel and not part of the covenant God made with them through Moses.

We could go right through Isaiah 19.
But we see your thought train is wrong. For the bible especially the Torah and the covenants were for the people of GOD born through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Those not born of the covenants throughout were not Jews they were all Gentiles.

God showing clearly that Egypt and Assyria are Gentile nations and all nations were to be included in the salvation of the Messiah,=.
BUT even now if the bible is correct those who do not obey or believe the Messiah is no part of those who have salvation.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Mahomet died Jesus Christ was killed as Isaiah 53 said he would and he is alive and seated at Gods right hand.

Isaiah 54:17
17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.
The God of the bible wins again. God can uphold what he says. That is because he deals with truth,
Kjv
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
How can you tell a strong delusion and a lie if you cannot understand the bible?

 

[Fool]

King James Bible
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The twelve sons of Israel,(the person named Israel) became the 12 tribes of Israel.




So God changed the name of Abram to Abraham because of his promise to Abraham.
He changed Sara to Sarah because of his promise to Sara.


King James Bible
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


What about those who are no longer judged? Those whose sins God has forgiven and so are in the Lambs book of the living? There is no middle you chose now.


I found how unfounded and negative of any earthly teaching that you included Satanist as not saving you??? Is Satan or anyone who would follow him saved?
Your view and statement was not based on anything you learned regarding a religion or belief in a god or gods and certainly not the true God.

If, it difficult for a pharisee to get into heaven how difficult do you believe it is for anyone outside Christ and his teachings?

its not personal. Even now instead of praying you are defending "your" understanding just as I am defending mine. there is no gospel to worship jesus.

Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


its your free will to serve self, or other as self, that determines your salvation.


You reap what you sow; so cast your bread upon the waters and after many days it will return to you. do unto others as you would have done unto you because with what you do to others, it too will be done to you.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[RESOLUTION]

its not personal. Even now instead of praying you are defending "your" understanding just as I am defending mine. there is no gospel to worship jesus.

If , God is truth and God has said through Christ Jesus King James Bible
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
I defend no understanding... I simply trust God and allow him to give me what I need to say when I need to say it/write it.

Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


its your free will to serve self, or other as self, that determines your salvation.

Whereas the gospel of Christ and the teachings of the Prophet's show us that the Agape love of God is selfless so that it is not done as the Pharisees but with true love for God which in its self The Pharisee obeyed the Law and did all they did for the praise of men. But Christ did it from the love for God and not self.For me to live is Christ.

You reap what you sow; so cast your bread upon the waters and after many days it will return to you. do unto others as you would have done unto you because with what you do to others, it too will be done to you.

Those who sow in love they forgive. So many may sow in the ways of the flesh and other sow in the way of Gods Spirit and Truth.
When Jesus sowed in all the things of God, Love for God and Love for others what was it about those things which caused him to reap, hatred, despair, beating, whipping, crucifixion and even when all had been done he said " Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Even those who are pure in heart and are all the things a man in God should be, like Christ can suffer for doing good.
In this world they do not accept the believers they will do to you are they did to Christ.
We do not work for reward we work to the Glory of God. What is there in heaven you could possibly want to know but God? What is there on earth that is better than knowing God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and the presence of Gods Holy Spirit?

King James Bible
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


It isn't an understanding... it is a way of life in Christ.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

When you cast your bread on the waters then it will return it will be the will of God in your life.It will direct you and keep you in the way of eternal life.

 

[Fool]

If , God is truth and God has said through Christ Jesus King James Bible
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
I defend no understanding... I simply trust God and allow him to give me what I need to say when I need to say it/write it.

so if you're trusting the Spirit of God to lead and show you why are you worshiping a man?

Whereas the gospel of Christ and the teachings of the Prophet's show us that the Agape love of God is selfless so that it is not done as the Pharisees but with true love for God which in its self The Pharisee obeyed the Law and did all they did for the praise of men. But Christ did it from the love for God and not self.For me to live is Christ.

the gospel is God's by which jesus and all the prophets were sent to witness too. it isn't their gospel.

Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Those who sow in love they forgive. So many may sow in the ways of the flesh and other sow in the way of Gods Spirit and Truth.
When Jesus sowed in all the things of God, Love for God and Love for others what was it about those things which caused him to reap, hatred, despair, beating, whipping, crucifixion and even when all had been done he said " Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Even those who are pure in heart and are all the things a man in God should be, like Christ can suffer for doing good.
In this world they do not accept the believers they will do to you are they did to Christ.
We do not work for reward we work to the Glory of God. What is there in heaven you could possibly want to know but God? What is there on earth that is better than knowing God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and the presence of Gods Holy Spirit?

Love covers all wrong doing. You don't have to be christian to love.

When you cast your bread on the waters then it will return it will be the will of God in your life.It will direct you and keep you in the way of eternal life.

so it's the persons actions that determine their future or their destiny

 

[RESOLUTION]

so if you're trusting the Spirit of God to lead and show you why are you worshiping a man?

I do not worship ANY man, I worship only God.
Jesus taught to worship only God.
King James Bible
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

the gospel is God's by which jesus and all the prophets were sent to witness too. it isn't their gospel.Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

"I have not come to do my will but the will of him who sent me."
He who sends is greater than he who is sent.
King James Bible
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater
than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Love covers all wrong doing. You don't have to be christian to love.

King James Bible
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves:
for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

The body of Christ promote the love of God in that whilst still dead in sin he sent his son to save us.
It was a high price Christ paid. The love of God covered our sins. He sent his son to pay for them because God
is Just. He is Love.King James Bible
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

so it's the persons actions that determine their future or their destiny

. Does a man sin by thought, word and deed?

You try so often to try and trip people up twisting what has been said into something else.
The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life.
God leads all believers he keeps his promises.

 

[Fool]

at minute 12 of the video the rabbi indicates that abraham was a brahmin who came from india.

brahma = abraham
sarai = sarasvatti
ghaggar = hagar


The Soul of Adam - Reincarnation: Part 2

Bene Israel

India's Bene Israel Jews | My Jewish Learning