Abraham sacrifice his son (ishmael or isaac)

[jazzymom]

According to the biblical story, God commands Abraham pbuh to offer his son Isaac pbuh as a sacrifice.

But what is known to muslims that ishmael pbuh was the one offered for the sacrifice.

"By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son ..." (Hebrews 11:17, R.S.V.)

"After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, ‘Abraham!’ And he said, ‘Here am I.’ He said, ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you’." (Genesis 22:1-2, R.S.V.).

The bible contradict itself by saying "your only son",whereas the established
fact which is also mentioned in the bible that Isaac is not the only son of
Abraham pbuh,as ishmael was born 13 years before Isaac,so in logic,Isaac
wasn't yet born and his only son at that time was Ishmael and not Isaac.

[youtube]yRDw-s5P540[/youtube]
Isaac or Ishmael deedat - YouTube

[youtube]dj7tR0FRvBI[/youtube]
Eid ul-Adha & Abraham Sacrifice Explained + Qur'an! - YouTube

I am a bit confused because in the Bible Ismael is older when he and Hagar leave. In the Quran he is a baby when they leave.

In fact in the wandering of Hagar she had no water to give her baby. There is a story that as she ran in search of water the baby miraculous found water
with his heel and a spring of came from the ground.

If he left as a baby he could not have been offered as a sacrifice, he was no longer a part of the household of Abraham, Isaac was.

 

[Dingbat]

I am a bit confused because in the Bible Ismael is older when he and Hagar leave. In the Quran he is a baby when they leave.

In fact in the wandering of Hagar she had no water to give her baby. There is a story that as she ran in search of water the baby miraculous found water
with his heel and a spring of came from the ground.

If he left as a baby he could not have been offered as a sacrifice, he was no longer a part of the household of Abraham, Isaac was.

I don't remember an age ever being stated in the Torah do you have a link to the chapter and verse where this happens?

 

[jazzymom]

I don't remember an age ever being stated in the Torah do you have a link to the chapter and verse where this happens?

Genesis 22:1-22

It does not mention an age but it does show Isaac speaking to his father which means he was a child, not a baby.

Genesis 22:7

7 And Isaac spoke unto Abraham his father, and said: 'My father.' And he said: 'Here am I, my son.' And he said: 'Behold the fire and the wood; but where is the lamb for a burnt-offering?'

The Binding of Isaac - My Jewish Learning

 

[bretzter]

I wonder if Abrahams willingness to sacrifice Isaac had anything to do with God´s actually sacrificing
his son,Jesus much later on?.
Btw,speaking of both Ishmael and Isaac,I wonder if they actually warred against one another while
Abraham was still yet alive?.
I believe the Bible for example states explicitly that both were in attendance at Abrahams burial.
Or take the case of Esau and Jacob.
Did Esau/Edom,once he was informed that his brother had returned,ride out to meet him with a
sword,or rather with tears of brotherly affection,after his built up anger against him had passed?.

 

[dantech]

According to the biblical story, God commands Abraham pbuh to offer his son Isaac pbuh as a sacrifice.

But what is known to muslims that ishmael pbuh was the one offered for the sacrifice.

"By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son ..." (Hebrews 11:17, R.S.V.)

"After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, ‘Abraham!’ And he said, ‘Here am I.’ He said, ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you’." (Genesis 22:1-2, R.S.V.).

The bible contradict itself by saying "your only son",whereas the established
fact which is also mentioned in the bible that Isaac is not the only son of
Abraham pbuh,as ishmael was born 13 years before Isaac,so in logic,Isaac
wasn't yet born and his only son at that time was Ishmael and not Isaac.

It is wrongly translated as:
“Take your son, your only son Isaac whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”
The original is "2 וַיֹּ֡אמֶר קַח־נָ֠א אֶת־בִּנְךָ֙ אֶת־יְחִֽידְךָ֤ אֲשֶׁר־אָהַ֙בְתָּ֙ אֶת־יִצְחָ֔ק וְלֶךְ־לְךָ֔ אֶל־אֶ֖רֶץ הַמֹּרִיָּ֑ה וְהַעֲלֵ֤הוּ שָׁם֙ לְעֹלָ֔ה עַ֚ל אַחַ֣ד הֶֽהָרִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֖ר אֹמַ֥ר אֵלֶֽיךָ"
It should be translated like this : "Take your son, your only son whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.

It doesn't say "your only son" as if he only had one son. It says "your only son whom you love, Isaac, ..."

I see no contradiction.

 

[Godobeyer]

the Editors of the Torah made these errors , replaced Isaac (pbuh) instead of Ishmael (pbuh) .for my opinion it's means Abraham(pbuh) sacrafice his (only) son Ishmeal (pbuh) before the birth of Isaac (pbuh) .

there is much errors detected in Torah which contradict the meaning

a verse said 1- God bless Ishmeal (pbuh) , other verse insult Ishmeal (pbuh) !!!

 

[Godobeyer]

It is wrongly translated as:
“Take your son, your only son Isaac whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”
The original is "2 וַיֹּ֡אמֶר קַח־נָ֠א אֶת־בִּנְךָ֙ אֶת־יְחִֽידְךָ֤ אֲשֶׁר־אָהַ֙בְתָּ֙ אֶת־יִצְחָ֔ק וְלֶךְ־לְךָ֔ אֶל־אֶ֖רֶץ הַמֹּרִיָּ֑ה וְהַעֲלֵ֤הוּ שָׁם֙ לְעֹלָ֔ה עַ֚ל אַחַ֣ד הֶֽהָרִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֖ר אֹמַ֥ר אֵלֶֽיךָ"
It should be translated like this : "Take your son, your only son whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.

It doesn't say "your only son" as if he only had one son. It says "your only son whom you love, Isaac, ..."

I see no contradiction.

still there is error , because "only whom you love " is mean that he don't love his other son Ishmael , we are human , ask any father : if he loved his sons or not ?, he will tell you i love all my sons ,especially the first birth son .(Ishmael (pbuh) .

 

[dantech]

still there is error , because "only whom you love " is mean that he don't love his other son Ishmael , we are human , ask any father : if he loved his sons or not ?, he will tell you i love all my sons ,especially the first birth son .(Ishmael (pbuh) .

That's for another debate. If you have scriptural evidence that he loved him, then bring it forward, otherwise you're only assuming.

 

[Godobeyer]

That's for another debate. If you have scriptural evidence that he loved him, then bring it forward, otherwise you're only assuming.

I have verse that God bless him .

I am not talking if there is evidence scriptural , i am talking about ordinar evidence (humanitiy ) , all the fathers and mothers loved all their sons and daugthers .

so the Bible tells something against the human nature .

 

[dantech]

I have verse that God bless him .

We are not trying to explain the relationship between God and Ishmael, but between Abraham and Ishmael.

I am not talking if there is evidence scriptural , i am talking about ordinar evidence (humanitiy ) , all the fathers and mothers loved all their sons and daugthers .

so the Bible tells something against the human nature .

There are plenty of examples throughout humanity in which a parent didn't love their child. Regardless, it's useless to have a debate using assumptions. There is evidence however that Abraham did love Ishmael. There is also evidence that makes it clear that the bible spoke about Isaac and not Ishmael when it came to the sacrifice. The word "Yachid" is also better translated as "unique" rather than "only".
So maybe the verse shows that Abraham loved Isaac in a unique way, rather than exclusively.

This is what Rashi says:

"your son: He [Abraham] said to Him,“ I have two sons.” He [God] said to him,“ Your only one.” He said to Him,“ This one is the only son of his mother, and that one is the only son of his mother.” He said to him,“ Whom you love.” He said to Him,“ I love them both.” He said to him,“ Isaac.” Now why did He not disclose this to him at the beginning? In order not to confuse him suddenly, lest his mind become distracted and bewildered, and also to endear the commandment to him and to reward him for each and every expression. — [from Sanh. 89b, Gen. Rabbah 39:9, 55:7]"

 

[Godobeyer]

We are not trying to explain the relationship between God and Ishmael, but between Abraham and Ishmael.



There are plenty of examples throughout humanity in which a parent didn't love their child. Regardless, it's useless to have a debate using assumptions. There is evidence however that Abraham did love Ishmael. There is also evidence that makes it clear that the bible spoke about Isaac and not Ishmael when it came to the sacrifice. The word "Yachid" is also better translated as "unique" rather than "only".
So maybe the verse shows that Abraham loved Isaac in a unique way, rather than exclusively.

This is what Rashi says:

"your son: He [Abraham] said to Him,“ I have two sons.” He [God] said to him,“ Your only one.” He said to Him,“ This one is the only son of his mother, and that one is the only son of his mother.” He said to him,“ Whom you love.” He said to Him,“ I love them both.” He said to him,“ Isaac.” Now why did He not disclose this to him at the beginning? In order not to confuse him suddenly, lest his mind become distracted and bewildered, and also to endear the commandment to him and to reward him for each and every expression. — [from Sanh. 89b, Gen. Rabbah 39:9, 55:7]"

thanks for explaination

is Rashi Rabbi recite Talmud ?
for Abraham (pbuh) what make loved Isaac a unique way ?

 

[Sleeppy]

Ishmael was sent off with his mother. Abraham's "only son" referred to Isaac, for this reason.

 

[dantech]

thanks for explaination

is Rashi Rabbi recite Talmud ?

Rashi is a Rabbi who commentated on most of the Torah.

for Abraham (pbuh) what make loved Isaac a unique way ?

I don't know. Maybe it is that it was his promised son, or that it was Sarah's child?

 

[dantech]

Ishmael was sent off with his mother. Abraham's "only son" referred to Isaac, for this reason.

Also a reasonable explanation.

 

[Godobeyer]

Rashi is a Rabbi who commentated on most of the Torah.

so most of Talmud belong to Rashi ?

I don't know. Maybe it is that it was his promised son, or that it was Sarah's child?

was not Ishmeal (pbuh) came first , so he is the promised son ?

Sarah and Abraham (pbuh) share "unique" love child that may is correct .

since Ishmeal (pbuh) did not disobey or rebellion against his father , there is no excuse/cause that made Abraham(pbuh) hate him .

 

[Sleeppy]

Also a reasonable explanation.

After all, there was only one son uniquely qualified. Abraham just didn't have two sons to choose from at that time, for the purpose of being a burnt offering. @Godobeyer

 

[Godobeyer]

Ishmael was sent off with his mother. Abraham's "only son" referred to Isaac, for this reason.

So there was abuse against Ishmael (pbuh) and Hajar from Sarah and Abraham (pbuh) ?

 

[Sleeppy]

since Ishmeal (pbuh) did not disobey or rebellion against his father , there is no excuse/cause that made Abraham(pbuh) hate him .

True. I don't think there was a valid reason to send Ishmael off either. But, Sarah was jealous, as many women would be. These types of things happen to this day- likely even more so today than ever before.

 

[Sleeppy]

So there was abuse against Ishmael (pbuh) and Hajar from Sarah and Abraham (pbuh) ?

Not so much abuse, but neglect. Abraham neglected Ishmael, because of Sarah's demand.

 

[Pegg]

I don't remember an age ever being stated in the Torah do you have a link to the chapter and verse where this happens?

There is mention of Ishmaels age while he was still with the household:

Genesis 17:23 Abraham then took Ish′ma·el his son and all the men born in his house and everyone he had purchased with money, every male in the household of Abraham, and he circumcised the flesh of their foreskins on that very day, just as God had spoken with him.+24 Abraham was 99 years old when he had the flesh of his foreskin circumcised.+25 And Ish′ma·el his son was 13 years old when he had the flesh of his foreskin circumcised.+26 On that very day, Abraham was circumcised and also his son Ish′ma·el. 27 All the men of his household, anyone born in the house and anyone purchased with money from a foreigner, were also circumcised with him.


So Ishmael was 13 Isaac was born a year later and it was when Isaac was weaned that Ishmael was sent away. So he could have been 16 years old or more when he was sent away.