Abraham was Brahma or Rama?

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

So mere conjecture to shoehorn your opinions into the Hindu narrative. Okay.


Without Maya, there is no "time," and there is no "where." As I said previously, Maya is space/time/causation.

I think the question remains unanswered. When you say Maya is space, time and causation. I am willing to agree. But the question still remains. Where was Maya when there was only Brahman? And the scriptures seem to say that at a certain time there was no time or space. So, if Brahman had desires only then space and time can arise or only then Maya can arise. It can be said that Brahman’s desires led to the creation of Maya.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think the question remains unanswered. When you say Maya is space, time and causation. I am willing to agree. But the question still remains. Where was Maya when there was only Brahman?

Space is necessary for "where." Without space, how can there be "where?"

And the scriptures seem to say that at a certain time there was no time or space. So, if Brahman had desires only then space and time can arise or only then Maya can arise.

How can you have "a certain time" when there is no time?

It can be said that Brahman’s desires led to the creation of Maya.

Anything can be said. That doesn't mean it's accurate.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Space is necessary for "where." Without space, how can there be "where?"


How can you have "a certain time" when there is no time?


Anything can be said. That doesn't mean it's accurate.

You hit the nail on the head. If there was no space and there was nowhere then where from did Maya arise? Did it arise out of nothing? Nothingness but Brahman is not nothingness. So, you are positing two entities, one Brahman and another nothingness which is outside Brahman. The basic problem of Advaita Vedanta is that they consider Brahman to have no desires but do not answer where from Maya can arise.

I have no trouble with a time when there was no time but that begs the question when first time came into being? That meant change and that time can only come into being when the Brahman has some desires otherwise there can be no time.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You hit the nail on the head. If there was no space and there was nowhere then where from did Maya arise?

What is "nowhere" in the absence of space?

Did it arise out of nothing? Nothingness but Brahman is not nothingness. So, you are positing two entities, one Brahman and another nothingness which is outside Brahman.

I am not. All this is verily Brahman.

The basic problem of Advaita Vedanta is that they consider Brahman to have no desires but do not answer where from Maya can arise.

I have no trouble with a time when there was no time but that begs the question when first time came into being? That meant change and that time can only come into being when the Brahman has some desires otherwise there can be no time.

A time when there was no time?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

What is "nowhere" in the absence of space?


I am not. All this is verily Brahman.


A time when there was no time?

When all this is verily Brahman, then does it have a space? I think so. I do not think there was a time when there was no space. Yes, there may not be time in the sense we understand because two points of time can only be assessed if there is some change within them but time exists nevertheless. So, it seems to me that we are going round in circles and to my mind the central question is when all this is verily Brahman. Then from where did Maya arise? I would request you to focus on this question and help me understand this.

 

[SalixIncendium]

When all this is verily Brahman, then does it have a space? I think so. I do not think there was a time when there was no space. Yes, there may not be time in the sense we understand because two points of time can only be assessed if there is some change within them but time exists nevertheless. So, it seems to me that we are going round in circles and to my mind the central question is when all this is verily Brahman. Then from where did Maya arise? I would request you to focus on this question and help me understand this.

We're going in circles at this point. You are struggling to grasp the idea of a Reality devoid of both time and space. As I said, 'when?' and 'where?' are incorrect questions that only apply to time and space. They only apply to Maya. "When did time start" and "where did space originate" are akin to trying to divide zero by zero.

Until you can realize and accept that Maya is not something apart from Brahman, but an appearance within, just as a dream as an appearance in your consciousness, I'm afraid I can't help you. You are mired in the idea that the world is a reality separate from God...that Brahman is transcendent.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

We're going in circles at this point. You are struggling to grasp the idea of a Reality devoid of both time and space. As I said, 'when?' and 'where?' are incorrect questions that only apply to time and space. They only apply to Maya. "When did time start" and "where did space originate" are akin to trying to divide zero by zero.

Until you can realize and accept that Maya is not something apart from Brahman, but an appearance within, just as a dream as an appearance in your consciousness, I'm afraid I can't help you. You are mired in the idea that the world is a reality separate from God...that Brahman is transcendent.

Okay, tell me, why does Maya appear within the Brahman? The very fact that you say the Maya appears means that there was a creation of time. So, it really makes no difference whether you call Maya appeared within Brahman or was appeared outside. The basic question we are discussing is whether Brahman has some desires or not. All I'm saying is if Maya appeared within the Brahman, that is also because of certain desires of the Brahman.