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Abrahamic Faiths Only: How does your religion view Adam and Eve?
- Thread starter Katzpur
- Start date
When sitting in Bible studies, I got the feeling that people saw them as disobedient children.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Hi! From the Baha'i scriptures:
Question. - What is the truth of the story of Adam, and His eating of the fruit of the tree?
Answer. - In the Bible it is written that God put Adam in the garden of Eden, to cultivate and take care of it, and said to Him: Eat of every tree of the garden except the tree of good and evil, for if You eat of that, You will die. Then it is said that God caused Adam to sleep, and He took one of His ribs and created woman in order that she might be His companion. After that it is said the serpent induced the woman to eat of the tree, saying: God has forbidden you to eat of the tree in order that your eyes may not be opened, and that you may not know good from evil. Then Eve ate from the tree and gave unto Adam, Who also ate; their eyes were opened, they found themselves naked, and they hid their bodies with leaves. In consequence of this act they received the reproaches of God. God said to Adam: Hast Thou eaten of the forbidden tree? Adam answered: Eve tempted Me, and I did eat. God then reproved Eve; Eve said: The serpent tempted me, and I did eat. For this the serpent was cursed, and enmity was put between the serpent and Eve, and between their descendants. And God said: The man is become like unto Us, knowing good and evil, and perhaps He will eat of the tree of life and live forever. So God guarded the tree of life.
If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how much less of the Divinity - that Divinity Who has organized this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength and perfection.
We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.
We will explain one of them, and we will say: Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man. The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.
The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity - that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.
Now consider how far this meaning conforms to the reality. For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.
When the sanctified breezes of Christ and the holy light of the Greatest Luminary were spread abroad, the human realities - that is to say, those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties - were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, I gave My blood for the life of the world - that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins (that is, the detachment of spirits from the human world, and their attraction to the divine world) in order that souls may arise who will be the very essence of the guidance of mankind, and the manifestations of the perfections of the Supreme Kingdom.
Observe that if, according to the suppositions of the People of the Book, the meaning were taken in its exoteric sense, it would be absolute injustice and complete predestination. If Adam sinned by going near the forbidden tree, what was the sin of the glorious Abraham, and what was the error of Moses the Interlocutor? What was the crime of Noah the Prophet? What was the transgression of Joseph the Truthful? What was the iniquity of the Prophets of God, and what was the trespass of John the Chaste? Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.
No; it means what has already been said: Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam. Christ by His holy breezes saved men from this attachment and freed them from this sin. The sin in Adam is relative to His position. Although from this attachment there proceed results, nevertheless, attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin. The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the Near Ones. This is established. So bodily power is not only defective in relation to spiritual power; it is weakness in comparison. In the same way, physical life, in comparison with eternal life in the Kingdom, is considered as death. So Christ called the physical life death, and said: Let the dead bury their dead. Though those souls possessed physical life,
yet in His eyes that life was death.
This is one of the meanings of the biblical story of Adam. Reflect until you discover the others.
Salutations be upon you.
(Abdul-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pages 122-126)
Best!
Bruce
Chapter 30
ADAM and EVE
Question. - What is the truth of the story of Adam, and His eating of the fruit of the tree?
Answer. - In the Bible it is written that God put Adam in the garden of Eden, to cultivate and take care of it, and said to Him: Eat of every tree of the garden except the tree of good and evil, for if You eat of that, You will die. Then it is said that God caused Adam to sleep, and He took one of His ribs and created woman in order that she might be His companion. After that it is said the serpent induced the woman to eat of the tree, saying: God has forbidden you to eat of the tree in order that your eyes may not be opened, and that you may not know good from evil. Then Eve ate from the tree and gave unto Adam, Who also ate; their eyes were opened, they found themselves naked, and they hid their bodies with leaves. In consequence of this act they received the reproaches of God. God said to Adam: Hast Thou eaten of the forbidden tree? Adam answered: Eve tempted Me, and I did eat. God then reproved Eve; Eve said: The serpent tempted me, and I did eat. For this the serpent was cursed, and enmity was put between the serpent and Eve, and between their descendants. And God said: The man is become like unto Us, knowing good and evil, and perhaps He will eat of the tree of life and live forever. So God guarded the tree of life.
If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how much less of the Divinity - that Divinity Who has organized this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength and perfection.
We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.
We will explain one of them, and we will say: Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man. The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.
The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity - that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.
Now consider how far this meaning conforms to the reality. For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.
When the sanctified breezes of Christ and the holy light of the Greatest Luminary were spread abroad, the human realities - that is to say, those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties - were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, I gave My blood for the life of the world - that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins (that is, the detachment of spirits from the human world, and their attraction to the divine world) in order that souls may arise who will be the very essence of the guidance of mankind, and the manifestations of the perfections of the Supreme Kingdom.
Observe that if, according to the suppositions of the People of the Book, the meaning were taken in its exoteric sense, it would be absolute injustice and complete predestination. If Adam sinned by going near the forbidden tree, what was the sin of the glorious Abraham, and what was the error of Moses the Interlocutor? What was the crime of Noah the Prophet? What was the transgression of Joseph the Truthful? What was the iniquity of the Prophets of God, and what was the trespass of John the Chaste? Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.
No; it means what has already been said: Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam. Christ by His holy breezes saved men from this attachment and freed them from this sin. The sin in Adam is relative to His position. Although from this attachment there proceed results, nevertheless, attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin. The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the Near Ones. This is established. So bodily power is not only defective in relation to spiritual power; it is weakness in comparison. In the same way, physical life, in comparison with eternal life in the Kingdom, is considered as death. So Christ called the physical life death, and said: Let the dead bury their dead. Though those souls possessed physical life,
yet in His eyes that life was death.
This is one of the meanings of the biblical story of Adam. Reflect until you discover the others.
Salutations be upon you.
(Abdul-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pages 122-126)
Best!
Bruce
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Incorrectly.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Could you be a little more specific. How is the way your religion views Adam and Eve "incorrect"?
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I'm sure we've been over this before but here goes. Adam was fist created as a plurality, both male and female, which means that was the image of God (a Trinity) that Adam reflected. They were separated when Eve was made out of Adm's rib. Adam and Eve were also saved before the eating of the fruit and did not become in need of salvation afterward.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Not a Biblical persona.and Lillith is just not worth mentioning?
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Wow, that's a new one on me, Sandy. Could you explain how you arrived at this conclusion? I'm specifically curious about a couple of things...
1. How does a plurality reflect a trinity?
2. Do you believe that Adam literally had both male and female sex organs or am I taking your comments too far?
3. I am really confused about them not being in need of salvation. Seriously, I've never heard any Christian say this. What's your reasoning on this?
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
Adam (Kadmon, cadmon) before he split into adam and eve....
was the first perfected man.....
Adam:
In the religious writings of Kabbalah, Adam Ḳadmon is a phrase meaning "father time," or "Primal Man". The oldest rabbinical source for the term "Adam ha-Ḳadmoni" is Num. R. x., where Adam is styled, not as usually, "Ha-Rishon" (the first), "Ha-Kadmoni" (the original).
It is said that Adam Ḳadmon had rays of light projecting from his eyes. In Lurianic Kabbalah, Adam Ḳadmon acquired an exalted status equivalent to Purusha in the Upanishads, denoting the Manifest Absolute itself, and 'Adam Soul', the primeval Soul that contained all human souls, is described in different terms in this variant of mythopoetic cosmogenesis and anthropogenesis.
Adam Ḳadmon is comparable to the Anthropos of Gnosticism and Manichaeism. There is also a similar concept in Alevi and Sufic philosophy called Insan-i Kamil, the Perfect or Complete Man.
Adam Kadmon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Isaiah 34:14
Are you sure that's the right scripture reference? Are you saying Lillith is the "wild beast?"
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
the eden story of course can be seen in many ways...
this subject of course has been done to death at RF,,,,
Personally I see the eden story along the lines of moving from non duality to duality...and as such moving from "perfected" conciousness to "imprefect"
I became water
and saw myself
a mirage
became an ocean
saw myself a speck
of foam
gained Awareness
saw that all is but
forgetfulness
woke up
and found myself
asleep.
Binavi Badakhshani
In Judaism we find concepts such as Tikkun Olam... things are broken and need repair
arguably of course eden is a story of the mystical journey.
It is the same as that of Buddha and Christ....
we begin as special beings in a nice home
we leave the home
we wander
we remember who we are
we return home
Creation, fall, redemption
Ex Deo nascimur.
In Jesu Morimur
Per Spiritum Sanctum reviviscimus.
We are born in God we die in Christ and are reborn in the Holy SPirit .
creation destruction redemption
The end is in the beginning
....
Of course there is far more...
this subject of course has been done to death at RF,,,,
Personally I see the eden story along the lines of moving from non duality to duality...and as such moving from "perfected" conciousness to "imprefect"
I became water
and saw myself
a mirage
became an ocean
saw myself a speck
of foam
gained Awareness
saw that all is but
forgetfulness
woke up
and found myself
asleep.
Binavi Badakhshani
In Judaism we find concepts such as Tikkun Olam... things are broken and need repair
arguably of course eden is a story of the mystical journey.
It is the same as that of Buddha and Christ....
we begin as special beings in a nice home
we leave the home
we wander
we remember who we are
we return home
Creation, fall, redemption
Ex Deo nascimur.
In Jesu Morimur
Per Spiritum Sanctum reviviscimus.
We are born in God we die in Christ and are reborn in the Holy SPirit .
creation destruction redemption
The end is in the beginning
....
Of course there is far more...