Abrahamic Faiths Only: How does your religion view Adam and Eve?

[sandy whitelinger]

Wow, that's a new one on me, Sandy. Could you explain how you arrived at this conclusion? I'm specifically curious about a couple of things...

1. How does a plurality reflect a trinity?

2. Do you believe that Adam literally had both male and female sex organs or am I taking your comments too far?

3. I am really confused about them not being in need of salvation. Seriously, I've never heard any Christian say this. What's your reasoning on this?

A plurality does not mean a duality so a trinity is a plurality.

Genesis 1:
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Notice God said, "...Let us make man in our image..." Thats a plural usage, therefore God's a plurality. Notice also in verse 27 that there is the use of the singular pronoun first. since there is no period after that then what follows after the colon is a futher clarification of the first part of the sentence. The singular man was made both male and female. Later God seperated Eve from Adam and we had two separate persons. That is my view on Adam being created in the image of God.

Now, for salvation, I believe that one is saved by accepting Jesus. We know that He was in the Garden with Adam and Eve. We also know that rejecting Jesus is a sin. Since eating the fruit was the beginning of sin in man then we know that neither Adam nor Eve rejected Chgrist, ergo they accepted Him and were saved. I also believe in eternal security so Adam and Eve did not become in need of salvation after commiting sin, only a death sentence was passed on them and they became in need of ressurection.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Isaiah 34:14

Isaiah 34:14 KJV

"The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest."

 

[Watchmen]

Now, for salvation, I believe that one is saved by accepting Jesus. We know that He was in the Garden with Adam and Eve. We also know that rejecting Jesus is a sin. Since eating the fruit was the beginning of sin in man then we know that neither Adam nor Eve rejected Chgrist, ergo they accepted Him and were saved. I also believe in eternal security so Adam and Eve did not become in need of salvation after commiting sin, only a death sentence was passed on them and they became in need of ressurection.

Is this the once saved, always saved approach?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Is this the once saved, always saved approach?

Yes, that is what "eternal security" means.

 

[Watchmen]

Yes, that is what "eternal security" means.

Where does the phrase "eternal security" come from?

 

[Walkntune]

I'm sure we've been over this before but here goes. Adam was fist created as a plurality, both male and female, which means that was the image of God (a Trinity) that Adam reflected. They were separated when Eve was made out of Adm's rib. Adam and Eve were also saved before the eating of the fruit and did not become in need of salvation afterward.

Hmmmm! That's sort of interesting!

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Hmmmm! That's sort of interesting!

Of course it is.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Where does the phrase "eternal security" come from?

I'm not sure but the phrase is used often by those who believe that once saved always saved, ie. always=eternal.

 

[jtartar]

How does your religion view Adam and Eve? Were they wicked? Were they just naive and misguided? Should they be honored and admired or condemned and vilified? Were they only doing what God wanted them to do or did they throw a wrench in His plan?

Katzpur,
My religion is the religion of the Holy Scriptures, so I get all my information from the inspired scrikptures. This is the only way we can get the truth, because there are as many opinions as there are people.
The Bible says Adam and Eve were created in God's image. This does not mean that they looked like God. God is a spirit, we are flesh and blood. Adam and Eve were created perfect, and with the same basic attributes as God had, but of course in a very much smaller amount. The cardinal attributes of God are Justice, Wisdom, Power, and Love.
The reason God said, Let US make man in our image is; He was talking to His son, who was the WORD and God's master worker, Prov 8:30. Jesus was the very FIRST individual that God created, His only begotten, and then through Jesus and for Jesus God created everything else, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, John 1:1-3,14-18.
God, whose proper name is Jehovah, Ex 6:3, Ps 83:18, created Adam ansd Eve perfect, so according to the scriprures, there is no excuse for their disobeying God. It seems they have no hope of a resurrection. God said they would return to the ground from which they were made, Gen 3:19.
The Bible tells us that Eve was deceived, but Adam was not, 1Tim 2:12-14. That means that Adam purposely disobeyed God. The reason is; Adam did not want to live without Eve.
In the Bible there is precidence for God overlooking actions of the woman if the man corrected he mistake. It isd possible that God could have forgiven Eve if Adam had interceded for her. There is no evidence that either of them ever tried to get back into the good graces of God.
When Adam and Eve sinned against God they became imperfect, and they passed their imperfection to all their offspring, Rom 5:12.
Because they had condemned all their offspring to death, God immediately made a way for them to return to Him. This was by sending His son to give his life for mankind, so that all who had faith in Jesus could receive all the promises of God, Gal 2:16, Acts 13:38,39, Matt 20:28.
Because men rebelled against God He turned the world of mankind over to Satan, but only for a certain period of time. This time is called the March of the Nations or The Gentile Times. This time period is almost over. Jesus has been installed as King of God's Kingdom, in heaven. Jesus is to rule over the earth for a short period then take over the world and turn it into a paradise, Ps 110:1, 1Cor 15:25.
Immediately after Jesus would be installed as King there would be great trouble on earth, Rev 6:1-8, 12:3-5, 7-9, 10-12. We are eyewitnesses to the fulfillment of the prophecies of Jesus and the apostles, Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 2Tim 3:1-5.
The Great Tribulation is just ahead, Rev 7:14. Shortly after that will be Armageddon, which will bring an end to this system of things, and the Judgement Day of one thousand years. At the end of that paradise for all those who love God and his son, and follow their commandments.

 

[Watchmen]

Katzpur,
My religion is the religion of the Holy Scriptures, so I get all my information from the inspired scrikptures. This is the only way we can get the truth, because there are as many opinions as there are people.

And there are millions of opinions as to what the Holy Scriptures mean. I don't want to derail this thread, but perhaps we can talk sometime about how we know truth from the scripture when there are so many interpretations and opinions as to what the scriptures mean.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur,
My religion is the religion of the Holy Scriptures, so I get all my information from the inspired scrikptures. This is the only way we can get the truth, because there are as many opinions as there are people.

The scriptures provide us with information, but not everyone interprets them the same way.

The Bible says Adam and Eve were created in God's image. This does not mean that they looked like God.

See, already we differ.

God is a spirit, we are flesh and blood.

We're spirits, too, jtartar. A spirit is a life force. It is entirely possible to be a sprit and also reside within a physical body, but that's not the topic of this thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Adam and Eve were created perfect, and with the same basic attributes as God had, but of course in a very much smaller amount. The cardinal attributes of God are Justice, Wisdom, Power, and Love.

Agreed. Well, pretty much. I believe they were "perfect" in that they were free from sin, but they were not perfect in terms of their full potential.

The reason God said, Let US make man in our image is; He was talking to His son, who was the WORD and God's master worker, Prov 8:30. Jesus was the very FIRST individual that God created, His only begotten, and then through Jesus and for Jesus God created everything else, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, John 1:1-3,14-18.

I agree again.

God, whose proper name is Jehovah, Ex 6:3, Ps 83:18, created Adam ansd Eve perfect, so according to the scriprures, there is no excuse for their disobeying God. It seems they have no hope of a resurrection. God said they would return to the ground from which they were made, Gen 3:19.

I don't believe God's name is Jehovah, but we can talk about that at some other time. Now, as to your statement that they were perfect so there was no excuse for their disobedience. I totally disagree. They were, as I've already said, without sin. But -- they were also without the knowledge of good and evil. How did they know that disobedience was "evil"?

The Bible tells us that Eve was deceived, but Adam was not, 1Tim 2:12-14. That means that Adam purposely disobeyed God. The reason is; Adam did not want to live without Eve.

Adam and Eve had been told to multiply and replenish the Earth. If Eve were expelled from the Garden and Adam was not, they would have been unable to obey this commandment. Adam chose to eat of the fruit so that man might be.

In the Bible there is precidence for God overlooking actions of the woman if the man corrected he mistake. It isd possible that God could have forgiven Eve if Adam had interceded for her. There is no evidence that either of them ever tried to get back into the good graces of God.

What? Wow, that's really different from my belief. I believe Adam and Eve were among the most righteous people who have ever lived.

When Adam and Eve sinned against God they became imperfect, and they passed their imperfection to all their offspring, Rom 5:12.

I agree to the extent that their nature became carnal and their posterity (i.e. us) would be born, not as sinners, but with the propensity to sin.

Because they had condemned all their offspring to death, God immediately made a way for them to return to Him. This was by sending His son to give his life for mankind, so that all who had faith in Jesus could receive all the promises of God, Gal 2:16, Acts 13:38,39, Matt 20:28.

I believe their transgression made it possible for them to have offspring. I believe that if they had never transgressed, they'd still be in the Garden and we would have never been born.

Because men rebelled against God He turned the world of mankind over to Satan, but only for a certain period of time. This time is called the March of the Nations or The Gentile Times. This time period is almost over. Jesus has been installed as King of God's Kingdom, in heaven. Jesus is to rule over the earth for a short period then take over the world and turn it into a paradise, Ps 110:1, 1Cor 15:25.
Immediately after Jesus would be installed as King there would be great trouble on earth, Rev 6:1-8, 12:3-5, 7-9, 10-12. We are eyewitnesses to the fulfillment of the prophecies of Jesus and the apostles, Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 2Tim 3:1-5.
The Great Tribulation is just ahead, Rev 7:14. Shortly after that will be Armageddon, which will bring an end to this system of things, and the Judgement Day of one thousand years. At the end of that paradise for all those who love God and his son, and follow their commandments.

Okay, now we're getting into a completely different subject.

 

[Watchmen]

don't believe God's name is Jehovah, but we can talk about that at some other time.

I do believe it's accurate to say the God of the Old Testament is Jehovah, but maybe we should talk about that in the LDS forum.

 

[Katzpur]

I do believe it's accurate to say the God of the Old Testament is Jehovah, but maybe we should talk about that in the LDS forum.

Yeah, probably.

 

[Clear]

POST ONE OF FIVE

I agree that there are many, many, many theories regarding Adam and the Fall. Even Restorationists, interested in a return to early Christian doctrines regarding Adam will have difficulties BECAUSE of those many competing voices and multiple competing traditions. Regardless, I’ve not seen any “modern” theories that are any clearer, nor more logical nor have any other advantage over the earliest Judao-christian doctrines and beliefs regarding Adam and Eve and the “fall of mankind”. I think the early Judao-Christian doctrines have profound contextual advantages over modern theories. For example, consider the fall of Adam and Eve if one simply adds two simple, but important ancient contexts.

The first principle is reflected by the Prophet Sedrach’s observation to God the Father that : “It was by your will that Adam was deceived, my master” (The Apocalypse of Sedrach 5:1-7). The second principle was the early doctrine that Adam partook of the “TREE OF WISDOM”. It was not simply the tree of "knowledge”. The implications of both ancient principles was the basis of an entirely different paradigm. Combined and paraphrased, this ancient doctrine was : “IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM”.

Just as the origin of Satan is not to be understood outside of pre-mortal Christian theology, I do not think the fall of Adam can be well understood without considering Pre-mortality; what God was attempting to with Adam (and the rest of us) and the role of gaining moral wisdom in God’s plan for mankind.



(“IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM&#8221



A) PRE-CREATION CONDITIONS RELATING TO ADAM - “GOD WAS IN THE MIDST OF SPIRITS”

According to the early Christian doctrines, before the creation of this world, God was in the midst of spirits. Early textual testimonies describe innumerable spirits existing in “heaven” before creation and, they describe what God intended to do with these innumerable spirits. Regarding pre-creation heaven, Enoch records :

"No one could come near unto him [God the Father] from among those that surrounded the tens of millions (that stood) before him". (1 En 14:23)

Enoch continues :

"I saw a hundred thousand times a hundred thousand, ten million times ten million, an innumerable and uncountable (multitude) who stand before the glory of the Lord of the Spirits". (1 Enoch 40:1-2)"

In this ancient doctrine, God was in the midst of spirits of all the spirits who ever lived or will live on this earth. The spirit that was to be clothed in Adam’s body was among these spirits. Jewish haggadah relates :

...With the soul of Adam the souls of all the generations of men were created. They are stored up in a promptuary, in the seventh of the heavens, whence they are drawn as they are needed for human body after human body.” (The Haggadah (The Soul of Man)

The pre-mortal Jesus is among these spirits as well. Enoch describes his vision of seeing the pre-mortal Jesus with the Father. Upon seeing these two individuals, Enoch asks who this individual (the pre-mortal Jesus) was and what role he had in the Father's Plan :

"At that place, I saw the Beginning of days [i.e. the Father] And his head was white like wool, and there was with him another individual, whose face was like that of a human being. His countenance was full of grace like that of one among the holy angels. And I asked the one – from among the angels –who was going with me,..."Who is this and from where could he be, and for what reason does he go with him who precedes time?" And he answered me and said to me, "This is the Son of Man, to whom belongs righteousness, and with whom righteousness dwells...the Lord of the spirits has chosen him, and he is destined to be victorious before the Lord of the spirits in eternal uprightness...." (1 Enoch 46:1-4)

The fact that the original plan called for a savior to redeem meant that it was known from the very beginning that man would both fall and need a redeemer to save them from the fall. Early texts such as Jewish Zohar confirm this :

“At the time that the Holy One, be blessed, was about to create the world, he decided to fashion all the souls which would in due course be dealt out to the children of men, .... Scrutinizing each, he saw that among them some would fall into evil ways in the world.” (The Zohar - The Destiny of the Soul)

(“IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM&#8221

B) GOD THE FATHER’S PLAN FOR MANKIND - “TO SEE AND UNDERSTAND THINGS”

If the early Christians were correct that spirits existed prior to creation, then one may ask what a moral and loving God would plan regarding these spirits?

The ancient Jewish doctrine that God had instituted a divine plan is interwoven into multiple texts :

"Before all things came to be, he [God] has ordered all their designs" (Dead Sea Scrolls 4Q255-264)

“....I (the Father), in the midst of the light (glory), moved around in the invisible things, like one of them, as the sun moves around from east to west and from west to east. But the sun has rest; yet I did not find rest, because everything was not yet created. And I thought up the idea of establishing a foundation, to create a visible creation." (2nd Enoch 24:4)

The Prophet Enoch describes the earliest stages of God’s plan before it was known among the heavenly host : "for not even to my angels have I explained my secrets, nor related to them their origin, nor my endless and inconceivable creation which I conceived." (2nd Enoch 24:3) Once God sets in motion his great plan, God seems to take great care in both the planning of and in ensuring the deep involvement of the Heavenly Hosts (for whose benefit the plan existed).

Early records also describe the great authority and various roles the pre-mortal Jesus fulfilled in administrating much of the Father’s plan from early on (God’s "right hand" was one of the Pre-Creation Jesus’ appellations). Diognetus relates :

"And when he (God) revealed it (his plan) through his beloved Child and made known the things prepared from the beginning, he gave us to share in his benefits and to see and understand things which none of [us] ever would have expected.” (Diog 301:8-11)

Such texts explain that the purpose of the plan was to “share in the benefits and see and understand things”; i.e. to gain wisdom. This is the very thing Adam and Eve sought FROM the tree of wisdom).


POST TWO OF ? FOLLOWS

 

[Clear]

POST TWO OF FIVE


The gaining of wisdom WAS the very thing God wanted to share with man. In fact, the dead sea scrolls celebrate God’s giving of knowledge and understanding (wisdom) to Adam :

…You have done wonders of old, and awesome deeds long ago. You fashioned Adam, our father, in the image of Your glory; You breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and filled him with understanding and knowledge. You set him to rule over the garden of Eden that you had planted…and to walk about in a glorious land…” (The words of the heavenly lights - 4Q504 - 506)

In explaining Adam’s assignment upon the earth, God says of the pre-eminent Adam : “...(as my) image he knows the word like (no) other....11 and on the earth I assigned him to be a second angel, honored and great and glorious. 12 And I assigned him to be a king, to reign on the earth, and to have my wisdom. “ (2nd Enoch 30:10-12)

God continues explaining to Enoch regarding Adam : And there was nothing comparable to him on the earth, even among my creatures that exist.... I gave him his free will; and I pointed out to him the two ways –light and darkness. And I said to him, ‘this is good for you, but that is bad’.... “ (2nd Enoch 30:13-15) The text continues on to explain reasons WHY God wanted to give Adam (and all of the rest of us) knowledge and wisdom :

“...so that it might become plain who among his race loves me. 16 Whereas I have come to know his nature, he does not know his own nature. That is why ignorance is more lamentable than the sin such as it is in him to sin.” (2nd Enoch 30:15-17)

There was something even “more lamentable” about an eternal existence in moral ignorance and social unrest than a temporary and limited sin IF it contributed to mankind acquiring moral wisdom sufficient to live in eternal social joy and harmony. The texts also make clear that mankind had to understand moral law BEFORE mankind could understand EITHER moral reward OR moral punishment BASED on moral law. When the Prophet Baruch complains about apparent inconsistencies in reward and punishment in mortality, God explains the principle underlying this moral education. God tells Baruch :

“... your judgment about the evils which befell those who sin is incorrect. ... ....listen and I shall speak to you; pay attention and I shall let my words be heard. It is true that man would not have understood my judgment if he had not received the law and if he were not instructed with understanding. But now, because he trespassed, having understanding, he will be punished because he has understanding. And with regard to the righteous ones,... this world is to them a struggle and an effort with much trouble. And that according which will come, a crown with great glory.” (The Apocalypse of Baruch 15:1 and 5-7)

If man was not educated regarding good and evils they do, they would not understand the rewards nor the punishments that follow moral actions nor would they have understood the ultimate justice of God’s judgment.

The Zohar explains this doctrine of moral education of spirits leaving heaven for earth for a short time, to become educated, only to return to heaven.

“It may be wondered, if they are thus preeminent on both sides, why do they descend to this world only to be taken thence at some future time? “This may be explained by way of a simile: A king has a son whom he sends to a village to be educated until he shall have been initiated into the ways of the palace. When the king is informed that his son is now come to maturity, the king, out of his love, sends the matron his mother to bring him back into the palace, and there the king rejoices with him every day.....” (THE ZOHAR - A SEAL UPON YOUR HEART)

(“IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM&#8221

C) THE UNITING OF ADAM’S BODY AND SPIRIT WAS AN INAUGURATION OF GOD’S PLAN ON EARTH


After enduring some controversy (e.g. the war in heaven), the plan of the Father progressed through the creation of the various planets and the preparation of the earth all in preparation for the placing of mankind on the earth. After eons of time and great preparations, the appointed time of inauguration of mankind with Adam takes place. Multiple texts describe this time period in great detail. The texts describe a time of great excitement as Adam’s body is created and Adam’s spirit is placed into his body to become a living being, and, being in the image and appearance of God, Adam is beautiful and honored.

In Christian Barthlomew, God tells Michael :

"Bring me earth...And when Michael had brought them to him, he formed Adam in the east, and gave form to the shapeless earth, and stretched sinews and veins, and united everything into a harmonious whole. And he showed him reverence for his own sake because he was in his image. And Michael also [honored] him. (The Gospel of Bartholomew Ch IV)

Christian Abbaton describes the event similarly : "And He put breath into him in this way : “He (God) breathed into his (Adams) nostrils the breath of life three times, saying, “Live! Live! Live! According to the type of My Divinity.” And the man lived straightway, and became a living soul, according to the image and likeness of God. And when Adam had risen up he cast himself down before [My] father, saying, “My Lord and my God! Thou hast made me to come into being [from a state in which] I did not exist.”Thereupon My Father set him upon a great throne, and he placed on his head a crown of glory, and he put a royal scepter [in his hand](Discourse on Abbaton)

Many ancient Christian records describe the great and wonderful beauty of this first man in an immortal state. The Christian Cave of Treasures text says :

“God formed Adam with His holy hands, in His own Image and Likeness and when the angels saw Adam's glorious appearance they were greatly moved by the beauty thereof. For they saw Fol. 5a, col. 2 the image of his face burning with glorious splendor like the orb of the sun, and the light of his eyes was like the light of the sun, and the image of his body was like unto the sparkling of crystal... There he was arrayed in the apparel of sovereignty, and there was the crown of glory set upon his head, there was he made king, and priest, and prophet, there did God make him to sit upon his honorable throne, and there did God give him dominion over all creatures and things.... And the angels and the hosts of heaven heard the Voice of God saying unto him, "Adam, behold; I have made thee king, and priest, and prophet, and lord, and head, and governor of everything which hath been made and created; and they shall be in subjection unto thee) and they shall be thine, and I have given unto thee power over everything which I have created." And when the angels heard this speech they all bowed the knee and [honored] Him.” (Cave of Treasures - chapt on Creation of Adam)

In fact, Adam's appearance and image was so much like that of God the Father, that he is actually mistaken FOR God the Father until it’s realized he is human.

The point in such descriptions from the early texts is that the early Christian doctrines commonly taught that Adam held a position of pre-eminence and honor and he was not merely a pet of a lonely God, but he was chosen to inaugurate the most important part of God’s pre-creation plan up to that point in history. Adam was not an arbitrary choice, but he was chosen and assigned. Keep in mind God’s description of Adam’s assignment :

“...(as my) image he knows the word like (no) other....11 and on the earth I assigned him to be a second angel, honored and great and glorious. 12 And I assigned him to be a king, to reign on the earth, and to have my wisdom. “ (2nd Enoch 30:10-12)

(“IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM&#8221


I’ve run out of time, I’ll have to continue tomorrow
I’d like to mention the early Judao-Christian views of the Fall and a bit on what “nakedness” meant in the early Jewish and Christian texts, and the early views of Adam’s fall and the promise of redemption for Adam.



Clear
drvidrhh

 

[Clear]

POST THREE OF FIVE


(“IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM&#8221

D) ADAM’S DESIRE TO GAIN KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM WAS NOT EVIL - “I (god) assigned him (adam) to be a king, to reign on the earth, and to have my wisdom. “ (2nd Enoch 30:12)

When we consider the Knowledge or wisdom Adam was given by having eaten of the fruit of the tree, Sedrach’s reminder, changes our viewpoint as to what happened. When the Prophet Sedrach said to God : “It was by your will that Adam was deceived, my master”; he said this, knowing that God COULD HAVE STOPPED THE FALL OF MAN. The Prophet then asks God : “If you loved man, why did you not kill the devil, the artificer of all iniquity? Who can fight against an invisible spirit? He enters the hearts of men like a smoke and teaches them all kinds of sin. He even fights against you, the immortal God, and so what can pitiful man do against him.....” (The Apocalypse of Sedrach 5:1-7) In this ancient view, man eventually would have “fallen”. Sedrach understood that God himself created the very essential precondition for Adam and Eve partaking of the tree of wisdom by expelling a vengeful Lucifer from heaven and then placing the willy lucifer in close proximity to the guileless but inexperienced Adam and Eve. And Sedrach ultimately understood that there was a perfectly legitimate reason for God to have done so.

One might consider that there is nothing wrong with the desire to have knowledge and wisdom. Ignorance was never a positive virtue. Knowledge and wisdom regarding good and evil and their discernment seems to be an essential characteristic of divinity. Lucifer’s specific promise to Adam and Eve that if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, their eyes should be “opened” and they would then “be as the gods, knowing good and evil” (Gen 3:5) was not a lie since God himself confirms that, having eaten of the fruit of the tree, “the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil” (Gen 3:22).

It is partly the ongoing discoveries of ancient contexts that caused later scholars to consider such histories from the view point of the ancients who described their beliefs in multiple ancient texts. For example, Gordon and Rendsburg write “If we examine the story in Genesis objectively, we see that, while many elements go into making up the whole picture, it is not so much an account of the “Fall of Man” but rather of the rise of man halfway to divinity.”

Their logic is that Adam DID obtain one characteristic of divinity (moral knowledge) and, when he obtains immortality, he will have gained another essential characteristic of divinity. Thus, it makes perfect sense for Adam to relate to Seth, what god said to him after Adam became mortal : “...He (god) spoke to me about this in Paradise after I picked some of the fruit in which death was hiding: ‘Adam, Adam do not fear. You wanted to be a god; I will make you a god, not right now, but after a space of many years. I am consigning you to death, ...But after a short time there will be mercy on you because you were created in my image, and I will not leave you to waste away in Sheol. (Testament of Adam 3:1-4) In all such statements, in fact even during the period where God explained to Adam and Eve the many consequences of having eating of the tree of wisdom, no strict judgment is given regarding Adam’s character, but rather God gives Adam and Eve an objective description of the changed conditions their choice to gain wisdom entails. The elements of disobedience is present in the story, but only circumstantially. The modern tendency to stress “evil” and overlook the “good” in the text would have seemed unjustified to the ancients.

Nor does god abandon Adam and Eve after they eat from the tree of wisdom, but he continues to teach them to care for themselves; to sacrifice the firstfruits of Adam’s flocks and many other things : "And during the first week of the first jubilee Adam and his wife had been in the Garden of Eden for seven years tilling and guarding it. And we gave him work and we were teaching him to do everything which was appropriate for tilling...And he was guarding the garden from the birds and beasts and cattle and gathering its fruit and eating...” (Jubilees (the book of division) 3 15-16) Jewish Haggadah relates that “ he (Adam) was in very truth a prophet, and his wisdom a prophetic quality....for mankind owes all crafts to him,...(The Haggadah -The Ideal Man).

The ancient Christians understood that, after the Fall, God continued to Give Adam, the very knowledge and wisdom Adam sought, not only by the spirit of God, but by visitations of Angels. In the Apocalypse of Adam, Adam relates to his son Seth:

“... I was sleeping in the thought of my heart, and I saw before me three men whose appearance I could not recognize because they were not from the powers of the God who created me. They surpassed [those powers in their] glory. The men [spoke] , saying to me, ‘Rise up, Adam, from the sleep of death, and hear about the aeon and the seed of that man to whom life has come, the one who came forth from you and from Eve your wife (that is, her progeny).... Then the vigor of our eternal knowledge perished in us, and feebleness pursued us. For this reason the days of our life became few, for I knew that I had become subject to the power of death. “Now then, my son Seth, I will reveal to you what was revealed to me by those men whom I once saw before me. (The Apocalypse of Adam 2:1-6-7, ch 3:1)

Adam then teaches Seth regarding the future and the evils that will occur among the children of men and the disastrous consequences of evil. He tells Seth about the redeemer. Again, these are the very things that Adam wanted to know and importantly, it is God who is seeing that Adam obtains this knowledge.

Adam was not only given knowledge by God but he says to the God regarding God’s son : "And behold, your word came to me and the Lord said to me, ‘Because your days are numbered, you have been made to cherish knowledge; ...” (Life of Adam and Eve (Vita) 27:2-3 (“your word” is a euphamism for the pre-mortal messiah)

The gaining of wisdom by partaking of the tree of wisdom was not a terrible mistake. It was part of God’s plan and original intention Thus the filling of Adam with “understanding and knowledge” was celebrated in the dead sea scroll text :

“…You have done wonders of old, and awesome deeds long ago. You fashioned Adam, our father, in the image of Your glory; You breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and filled him with understanding and knowledge. You set him to rule over the garden of Eden that you had planted…and to walk about in a glorious land…" (The words of the Heavenly Lights 4Q504 - 506)

Though modern theories can certainly argue that the ancient Christians were wrong in their beliefs and their descriptions regarding Adam’s having gained knowledge and wisdom by eating of the tree of wisdom, still, I’ve never seen any modern theory regarding Adam that is as coherent and sensible as the ancient versions.

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FOUR OF FIVE FOLLOWS

 

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POST FOUR OF FIVE

(“IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM&#8221

E) “NAKEDNESS” - THE BALANCE BETWEEN LITERAL AND SYMBOLIC - “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him” / “And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked”

In our attempts to determine and define what the ancients are saying in early texts, it’s often difficult to determine the correct mixture of what is literal and what is symbolic and what is a mixture and to what extent the two principles are mixed. It is clear, for example, that when the early Christian texts describe God, having “created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him” (Gen 1:27), they were speaking quite literally. To repeat an earlier text as an example :

“God formed Adam with His holy hands, in His own Image and Likeness and when the angels saw Adam's glorious appearance they were greatly moved by the beauty thereof. For they saw (Fol. 5a, col. 2) the image of his face burning with glorious splendor like the orb of the sun, and the light of his eyes was like the light of the sun, and the image of his body was like unto the sparkling of crystal... There he was arrayed in the apparel of sovereignty, and there was the crown of glory set upon his head, there was he made king, and priest, and prophet, there did God make him to sit upon his honorable throne, and there did God give him dominion over all creatures and things.... ” (Cave of Treasures - chapt on Creation of Adam)

Such detailed descriptions make it clear that they are talking about the appearance of Adam being in God’s own “image” and “likeness”. Such literalness is confirmed when they talk about the immortal Adam’s appearance. It is all very anthropomorphic in the extreme.

In an earlier post I said that Adam’s “appearance and image was so much like that of God the Father, that he is actually mistaken FOR God the Father until it’s realized he is human”. A good example is from early Jewish Haggadah :

"When Adam opened his eyes the first time, and beheld the world...his admiration for the world surrounding him did not exceed the admiration all creatures conceived for Adam. They took him to be their creator, and they all came to offer his adoration. But he spoke : “Why do you come to worship me? Nay, you and I together will acknowledge the majesty and the might of him who has created us all. ‘The Lord reigns,’ “ he continued, “‘he is appareled with majesty.’” And not alone the creatures on earth, even the angels thought Adam the lord of all, and they were about to salute him with “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts, “ when God caused sleep to fall upon him, and then the angels knew that he was but a human being. (The Haggadah (Woman) - THE FALL OF ADAM AND EVE)

Whether these early Christians were correct or not, a survey of the many, many such descriptions of Adam’s appearance make it absolutely clear that these early Christians are talking about physical appearance when they taught that God made Adam in his own image.

However, what is one to make of the description of “nakedness” of Adam and Eve?

“And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.” (Gen 3:7)

On the surface it may seem that they are somehow embarrassed about physical nakedness (else why sew physical aprons?). Some modern readers take this to mean that the pair who had just eaten of the tree of wisdom simply realized that had always been physically naked. However, to the ancients, it meant that they had become “naked” in some way that had reference physical appearance AND to their moral status. The two things were connected for these immortal being who are becoming mortal.

Enoch says of his vision :

“3 And I came to the garden of righteousness and saw beyond those trees many (other) large (ones) growing there— .... And the tree of wisdom, of which one eats and knows great wisdom, (was among them)....” 6 Then the holy angel Raphael, who was with me, responded to me and said, “This very thing is the tree of wisdom from which your old father and aged mother, they who are your precursors, ate and came to know wisdom; and (consequently) their eyes were opened and they realized that they were naked and (so) were expelled from the garden.” (1st Enoch 32:3-6)

In multiple records there is this connection between being “naked” and nakedness being a reason for being “expelled from the garden”. Presumably there was nothing wrong with nakedness itself, nor is there a moral quandary created for either to be “naked” in front of their spouse. The word “naked” in this specific context has deeper connotations and connections in the early Judao-Christian literature.

In Christian (vita) Adam and Eve text, eve says : “And at that very moment my eyes were opened and I knew that I was naked of the righteousness with which I had been clothed. 2 And I wept saying, ‘Why have you (satan) done this to me, that I have been estranged from my glory with which I was clothed?” [/quote] Eve She then approaches a tearful and reluctant Adam (he is tearful because he can see that Eve’s very nature has changed and reluctant to take of the fruit himself. She then truthfully relates : “I said to him, ‘Do not fear; for as soon as you eat, you shall know good and evil.’5 Then I quickly persuaded him. He ate, and his eyes were opened, and he also realized his nakedness.” (Life of Adam and Eve (apocalypse) 20:1-2, 21:1, 3-5)

The concept of being “clothed” in a garment of glory and loss of this garment is found throughout the early literature. With the fall of Satan from heaven, it was said of Lucifer : “...he was cast out, and "Daiwâ" because he lost the apparel of his glory. And behold, from that time until the present day, he and all his hosts have been stripped of their apparel, and they go naked...” (Cave of Treasures, chapt on “The Revolt of Satan&#8221

Though I would describe it differently, Ginzbert discusses this principle when he (legends, vol. 5, pp. 121 f. and n. 120) correctly noted that the haggadic interpretation of “naked” in Gen 3:7, 10 is that the first pair became aware that they were bare of good deeds. ( cf shab 14a; Meg 32a; GenR 19:6; PRE 14). This also, in view of other ancient Jewish and Christian writers asserting that Adam and Eve had garments of light before the fall. However, it seems not so much as a bareness of good deeds, but rather a loss of “purity”, a loss of a “primal state” (as the christian Abbaton translator said it.)

Regarding Adam, Jewish haggadah says “he lost his celestial clothing .... in sorrow he was to earn his daily bread...” (The Haggadah - The Punishment). Speaking of immortal beings in heaven, an early Christian text says “The inhabitants of that place were clad with the shining raiment of angels and their raiment was suitable to their place of habitation.” (The apocalypse of Peter). Early hymns relate the similar doctrines in their verse : “ I am clothed with a garment of light...and I am passed beyond the pain and anguish of bodies. And I am arrayed and succored by the savior of my spirit, through the power, which was never constricted. " (Angad Roshnan - From the Parthian Hym-Cycles - The Ship of God VIII)

The use of the term “naked” in a connection to a lack of righteousness and glory were used in many other texts. For example, in the “Rechabite” vision of heaven, the heavenly individuals explain : “But we are not naked as you suppose, for we are covered with a covering of glory; and we do not show each other the private parts of our bodies. But we are covered with a stole of glory (similar to that) which clothed Adam and Eve before they sinned.” (History of the Rechabites 12:3)

Part of the point in focusing on a single point is to simply demonstrate that modern Christian theories regarding Adam and Eve are, in the main, quite different than early doctrines AND, the modern’s lack the same context and depth of meaning and understanding that the ancients had on these subjects. The data that modern Christianity has gained does not offset the data and context they have lost. This is part of the reason why restorationist Christians who want to restore early Christian doctrines will have a very difficult time with those who are convinced that the modern theories ARE the same as the ancient doctrines. (Or that they are somehow “better” than the original christian doctrines)


POST FIVE OF FIVE FOLLOWS

 

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POST FIVE OF FIVE

F) ADAM IS GIVEN KNOWLEDGE AND THE PROMISE OF FUTURE RESURRECTION AND IMMORTALITY

(“IT WAS ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL THAT ADAM ACQUIRED WISDOM&#8221 - Without this Context, modern theories often relegate the Atonement of christ to a hasty “PLAN B” necessitated by the “Fall of Adam” caused by a “clever lucifer” who scuttles a good hearted, but not-so-omniscient God’s INITIAL Plan.

Acquiring moral knowledge and wisdom is a good thing, and NOT itself evil, however, the PROCESS of gaining wisdom involves observation of and experience with evil, and consequences caused by evil. If early Judao-Christian textual descriptions are correct, then Adam was not “cursed” for gaining wisdom. God explains to Enoch regarding the “fall”:

“...those whom I had blessed previously, them I did not curse; (and those whom I had not blessed previously, even them I did not curse) – neither mankind I cursed, nor the earth, nor any other creature, but only mankind’s evil fruit-bearing. This is why the fruit of doing good is sweat and exertion.....” (2nd Enoch 31:2-8)

“God said to Adam, ‘Because you transgressed my commandment and listened to your wife, cursed is the ground in your labors.” (Life of Adam and Eve (apocalypse) 24:1; 5)

After eating of the fruit Eve said to God :

“My Lord, the serpent led me astray; I ate, and I became like the gods.” And My Father said unto the serpent, “Because thou hast done this thing, cursed art thou among all the beasts of the earth. Thou shalt walk upon thy belly all the days of thy life, and all thy seed [shall be accursed] throughout all generations on the earth. Thou shalt eat earth and ashes all thy time, and so shall all those that shall come forth from thee.” It was in this way that the serpent came to walk upon his belly, according to what My Father decreed for him. And He said unto the woman also, “Because thou hast done this thing thou shalt bring forth children in sorrow and sighing, and thou shalt turn to thy husband.” And similarly He turned to Adam, and said unto him, Cursed be the earth because of thy deeds. Thou shalt eat thy bread by the sweat of thy face, and all those who shall come out of thee shall do likewise. Behold, thou shalt die from this day onwards, because thou art earth, and thou shalt return again to the earth. Thou shalt live in the world a life of nine hundred and thirty years, and when death cometh upon thee thou shalt turn to the earth again. Thy soul shall abide in Amente, (Hades, or the spirit world) and thou shalt sit in black darkness for four and a half thousand of years . . . (Discourse on Abbaton)

In such early descriptions, Lucifer is cursed, the earth is “cursed”, but Adam and Eve are NOT cursed but rather God describes the vicissitudes and difficulties Adam and Eve will undergo as they gain wisdom. In fact, God continues to support them and, he promises them redemption, if they will repent and learn to live by moral laws.


Jewish Haggadah explains “As it was, when God dismissed them from Paradise, He did not allow the divine quality of justice to prevail entirely. He associated mercy with it." (The Haggadah - The Punishment) (The LDS will recognize profound parallels of this same early doctrine though in greater detail in the Book of Mormon)

Upon realizing that he will die, multiple early texts relate Adams prayer to God to "give him from the Fruit of the tree of Life" so as to avoid death and to regain his immortal state.

1 “And the Lord turned and said to Adam, ‘From now on I will not allow you to be in Paradise.2 And Adam answered and said, ‘Lord, give me from the tree of life that I might eat before I am cast out.’ 3 Then the Lord spoke to Adam, ‘You shall not now take from it;...that you might not taste of it and be immortal forever, but that you might have the strife which the enemy has placed in you. But when you come out of Paradise, if you guard yourself from all evil, preferring death to it, at the time of the resurrection I will raise you again and then there shall be given to you from the tree of life, and you shall be immortal forever.’ (Life of Adam and Eve (apocalypse) 28:1-4) Several texts confirm this promise. For example, Jewish Haggadah relates : “Adam’s prayer, to be given of the fruit of the Tree of Life, was turned aside, with the promise, however, that if he would lead a pious life, he would be given of the fruit on the day of resurrection, and he would then live forever. (The Haggadah - The Punishment)

In the testament of Adam, Three angels come to visit Adam and they teach Adam important truths about this world, about evils that will occur and the disastrous consequences of men’s evils. Of the angels teaching, Adam tells his son Seth :

“You have heard my son, that God is going to come into the world after a long time, (he will be) conceived of a virgin and put on a body, be born like a human being, and grow up as a child. He will perform signs and wonders on the earth, ........2 He spoke to me about this in Paradise after I picked some of the fruit in which death was hiding: ‘Adam, Adam do not fear. You wanted to be a god; I will make you a god, not right now, but after a space of many years. I am consigning you to death, and the maggot and the worm will eat your body.’3...But after a short time there will be mercy on you because you were created in my image, and I will not leave you to waste away in Sheol. For your sake I will be born of the Virgin Mary. For your sake I will taste death and enter the house of the dead....4'And after three days, while I am in the tomb, I will raise up the body I received from you. And I will set you at the right hand of my divinity, and I will make you a god just like you wanted. And I will receive favor from God, and I will restore to you and to your posterity that which is the justice of heaven.” (Testament of Adam 3:1-4)

FIVE OF SIX (sorry, I went over the 10000 character limit...)

 

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POST SIX OF SIX



G) DECENSUS TEXTS RELATE HOW GOD MAKES GOOD ON HIS PROMISE TO ADAM

Bartholomew asks the resurrected Jesus regarding what he did after he died on the cross :

Bartholomew said to him: “Lord, when you went to be hanged on the cross, I followed you at a distance and saw how you were hanged on the cross and how the angels descended from heaven and worshiped you. And when darkness came, I looked and saw that you had vanished from the cross; only I heard your voice in the underworld, and suddenly a great wailing and gnashing of teeth arose. Tell me, Lord, where you went from the cross.” And jesus answered: “Blessed are you Bartholomew, my beloved, because you saw this mystery. And now I will tell you everything you ask me. “When I vanished from the cross, I went to the underworld to bring up Adam and all the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. ....And I brought out all the patriarchs..."

Bartholomew continues : "Tell me, Lord, who was he whom the angels carried in their arms, that exceedingly large man? And what did you say to him that he groaned so deeply?” “It was Adam, the first created, for whose sake I came down from heaven upon the earth. And I said to him: ‘I was hanged upon the cross for your sake and for the sake of your children.’ And when he heard that, he groaned and said: ‘So you were pleased to do, O Lord.’” (The Gospel of Bartholomew chapt one)

Other early christian texts relate the fulfilment of God’s promise to Adam; how Adam is brought to a heaven “...I shall lead you into the primeval calm of that land, the new Paradise and I shall show you the Fathers, my own divine entity. ..You shall put on a radiant garment, and gird on light; and I shall set on your head the diadem of sovereignty. “ (Canto VI c Huvidagman - The Parthian Hymn-cycles)

Early Christians celebrated this promise in their hymns :

“When the First Man had ended his struggle the Father sent his second Son. He came and helped his brother out of the Abyss. He built this whole World up out of the mixture that had come into existence out of Light and Darkness. “

the same verse continues on to relate that “All the Powers of the Abyss he spread out to ten Heavens and to eight earths, he shut them up into this World and made it a dungeon for all the Powers of Darkness. The World is also, however, a place of purification for the soul...” (Coptic Psalm-book - Let us worship the spirit of the Paraclete Psalm 223 - allberry 9-11)

The story of Adam and Eve had a different context and meaning to the ancient christians and the story of Adam and Eve was told with a much larger context that is quite foreign to most non-historians. Still, the Story of Adam’s choices and the conditions he went through in order to gain moral wisdom have direct bearing on our lives and purposes here.

“But now, turn yourselves to destruction, you unrighteous ones who are living now, for you will be visited suddenly, since you have once rejected the understanding of the most High. For his works have not taught you, nor has the artful work of his creation which has existed always persuaded you. Adam is, therefore not the cause, except only for himself, but each of us has become our own Adam.” (The apocalypse of Baruch (Baruch 2)

I have to stop here or I won’t get anything else done. I'll have to return to this later and correct mistakes...

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DRSISEET