dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
My bad ...
I will appreciate it when there is progress in the opposite direction.
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
My bad ...
Why don't YOU describe what YOU think about the actions addressed in Israel Hayom and Times of Israel?I asked YOU to describe what YOU saw in the video.
We have distinctly different views of progress. Now, about post #23 ...I will appreciate it when there is progress in the opposite direction.
Why don't YOU describe what YOU think about the actions addressed in Israel Hayom and Times of Israel?
Why don't YOU describe what YOU think about the actions addressed in Israel Hayom and Times of Israel?
Police on Wednesday arrested five Orthodox Jews on suspicion of spitting at Christian worshippers in the Old City of Jerusalem, amid a rise in incidents targeting priests and pilgrims in the capital.
Oh, my! Meanwhile ...
This repulsive practice is a hateful act of persecution against another faith group and a desecration of God's name according to Jewish law," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "This display of hate and bigotry has no place in Israel and is inimical to Jewish values of treating all people with respect and kindness."
And early this month, Netanyahu-friendly Israel Hayom wrote
PM vows to protect Christians after spitting incident in Jerusalem's Old City
Nah. You're ignoring details as usual.
My bad ...
<yawn>
ignore-list
</yawn>
I came across this and other disturbing videos on YouTube showing some religious Jews in Israel spitting on Christian worshipers. Some videos show them being physically attacked. In other videos Netanyahu has denounced this behavior. Why would this group of people be spitting on other folks?
I agree with you that it's certainly not a crime to have harsh feelings towards someone. It's how a person manifests those feelings. And ,no, it's not ok to spit at or on someone. Here in the US where I live, that is considered assault.From what I've read in this thread, I tend to agree with dybmh. And not just because I like him. I think his approach is correct. I don't think it's a crime for Jews to have harsh feelings toward Christians or Christianity. I don't think it's a crime for them to board up a window if it's primary view is of a giant cross on a cathedral. I don't think it's a crime for them to register animosity. I think it's healthy and good, honest, and true.
In a recent statement Netanyahu pointed out that the Bible says there's a time for war and a time for peace. He then shocked some more humanistically minded people by saying now is a time for war. The only place I disagree with him is that it was probably a time for war long ago.
I think there's a time and place for Christians and Jews to be peaceful toward one another, and also a time and place for them to register their animosity for one another. I'd rather be spit on by a Jew who studies the Talmud and believe what it says with all his heart mind and soul than be kissed by a milquetoast secular Jew who's worldview and religion is a subset of Rodney King's famous quip.
John
I agree with you that it's certainly not a crime to have harsh feelings towards someone. It's how a person manifests those feelings. And ,no, it's not ok to spit at or on someone. Here in the US where I live, that is considered assault.
Teaching quality material is always better than arrest.National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir said in an interview: “I still think spitting at Christians is not a criminal case. I think we need to act on it through instruction and education. Not everything justifies an arrest.”
'Stop' is the key term.Speaking to Army Radio, the minister in charge of police added: “It is deserving of every condemnation. It should be stopped. I asked Rabbi Dov Lior, he said it was immoral and wrong. We’re against it. But let’s stop slandering Israel. We’re all brothers, we’re all of the same people.”
I agree with you here.I don't think it's a crime for them to board up a window if it's primary view is of a giant cross on a cathedral.
No problem here either, depending on how they demonstrate said animosity.I don't think it's a crime for them to register animosity. I think it's healthy and good, honest, and true.
Completely disagree with you here. Humans should not be like llamas who spit at people to show their anger. Suppose the role was reversed and a Christian spit at an ultra orthodox Jew because he thought that they deserved it for not accepting Jesus as their Messiah. Would you still defend it? Or suppose a person of Muslim faith were to spit at an ultra Orthodox Jew because he felt it his right to do so because they didn't accept that Mohammed was a prophet of God. Would you defend that action? I certainly hope not. Spitting at, on, or in the direction of anyone of any faith is wrong, rude and unacceptable. Decent mutual respect for others whether they are of a different race, religion or culture would be a great step in the right direction. This spitting nonsense is not acceptable or right in any way. And I am glad that the Israeli authorities are doing their best to put a stop to it.I'd rather be spit on by a Jew who studies the Talmud and believe what it says with all his heart mind and soul
Since it was obviously a religiously based invective, would you agree that it could be an incendiary action?I didn't watch the entire video. But I watched the video footage of the spitting. Please. Did they spit ON OTHER FOLKS? No. They spit on the ground.
If we can agree to this detail, then pperhaps we can have a dicussion reagarding why it's happened and what is the root of it.
If we cannot agree on the simple facts of what happpened, then there's no reason to discuss it. If I am seeing them spitting on the ground, and you are seeing them spitting on other folks, then we are not discussing the same event.
Suppose the role was reversed and a Christian spit at an ultra orthodox Jew because he thought that they deserved it for not accepting Jesus as their Messiah.
Since it was obviously a religiously based invective, would you agree that it could be an incendiary action?I didn't watch the entire video. But I watched the video footage of the spitting. Please. Did they spit ON OTHER FOLKS? No. They spit on the ground.
If we can agree to this detail, then pperhaps we can have a dicussion reagarding why it's happened and what is the root of it.
If we cannot agree on the simple facts of what happpened, then there's no reason to discuss it. If I am seeing them spitting on the ground, and you are seeing them spitting on other folks, then we are not discussing the same event.
I used to think ultra orthodox Jews were so very nice until one spit on a friend because of religious differences and ran away and another threatened me with harm.Nah. You're ignoring details as usual. We can't discuss it if you refuse to look at the facts. Your anti-orthodox attitude and prejudice is well documented on this forum.
That is true that murder is worse than spitting. And the history of differences between religion is awful.Oh, let me assure you, we have had worse done to us by Christians for not accepting Jesus as Messiah. I don't think I need to go into it here, as I would be surprised if you or or anyone else were unable to acknowledge this.
If you would have taken the time to read what I wrote above in my previous post, or clicked on the link to the article at Chabad.org that I provided, you might have been able to understand that the spitting is not done out of "anger." It is done because being suddenly confronted with an object of idol worship (and, to the Jews in the midst of observing Sukkot, that would have been the super-sized cross being squeezed onto the narrow street of Jerusalem at the exact time that the Jewish procession was coming through) means that the saliva in one's mouth from speaking or being confronted with an item of idol worship must be expelled and not swallowed. This is why they spit directly on the ground. It is something that is done even within the synagogue itself, in front of other Jews, when reference to idol worship is made.
However, I agree with you that the Israeli authorities are probably making a good call in their efforts to stop the practice in public, since it clearly causes so much bad will from those who take offense (whether they be Christians or merely people who watch YouTube videos without context). It is a shame, though, that the offended are incapable of seeing how their own actions are can be offensive, as well -- such as those actions of the many who come to Jerusalem for the specific purpose of proselytizing to Jews. Or who choose the precise moment (with their cell phones in hand for recording) to provocatively step out into a Jewish religious procession while carrying their humungous cross (as did those in the video).
And here's some additional background information for you. Those Christians in that video were emerging from the Church of the Flagellation, a church in Jerusalem that was originally built by the Crusaders. If the word "Crusaders" holds no significance for you in regard to Judaism (and Islam, as well), then you can Google it.
I know atrocities were and are committing by religious groups against other religious groups. I am looking forward to the fulfillment of the prophecies that state all wars and hatred will cease.Oh, let me assure you, we have had worse done to us by Christians for not accepting Jesus as Messiah. I don't think I need to go into it here, as I would be surprised if you or or anyone else were unable to acknowledge this.
If you would have taken the time to read what I wrote above in my previous post, or clicked on the link to the article at Chabad.org that I provided, you might have been able to understand that the spitting is not done out of "anger." It is done because being suddenly confronted with an object of idol worship (and, to the Jews in the midst of observing Sukkot, that would have been the super-sized cross being squeezed onto the narrow street of Jerusalem at the exact time that the Jewish procession was coming through) means that the saliva in one's mouth from speaking or being confronted with an item of idol worship must be expelled and not swallowed. This is why they spit directly on the ground. It is something that is done even within the synagogue itself, in front of other Jews, when reference to idol worship is made.
However, I agree with you that the Israeli authorities are probably making a good call in their efforts to stop the practice in public, since it clearly causes so much bad will from those who take offense (whether they be Christians or merely people who watch YouTube videos without context). It is a shame, though, that the offended are incapable of seeing how their own actions are can be offensive, as well -- such as those actions of the many who come to Jerusalem for the specific purpose of proselytizing to Jews. Or who choose the precise moment (with their cell phones in hand for recording) to provocatively step out into a Jewish religious procession while carrying their humungous cross (as did those in the video).
And here's some additional background information for you. Those Christians in that video were emerging from the Church of the Flagellation, a church in Jerusalem that was originally built by the Crusaders. If the word "Crusaders" holds no significance for you in regard to Judaism (and Islam, as well), then you can Google it.
Humans should not be like llamas who spit at people to show their anger.
You and me both. I've always said that if a persons religious beliefs cause them to be mean to others, it's best not to have those beliefs at all.I am looking forward to the fulfillment of the prophecies that state all wars and hatred will cease.