{Abrahamics Only} Are you truly monotheistic?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Are you truly monotheistic?

Please just relax and think about this with an open mind. Abrahamic mythology has an entire pantheon of spiritual beings who are believed to exist Above and Below and Within in a manner beyond our comprehension. In the Abrahamic religions, the term "god" seems to have evolved to mean the ultimate being of ultimate everything... when before, the roles of many gods and goddesses were more comparable to the roles of many of the angels and demons we learn about in Abrahamic lore.

The term "Abrahamic mythology" is simply useless. You seem to instinctively acknowledge this when you talk about terms evolving.

I am not a polytheist and would argue that much of Genesis 1 and 2 is a polemic against polytheism presented in the language of the day.

 

[Aštra’el]

The term "Abrahamic mythology" is simply useless. You seem to instinctively acknowledge this when you talk about terms evolving.

When I say "Abrahamic mythology", I am referring to the the grand collective combination of biblical lore, kabbalistic lore, quranic lore, the lore of Abrahamic apocrypha, and miscellaneous lore about Abrahamic perspectives of demons and angels and heaven and hell and God. I find the term very useful, especially considering how my own spiritual-religious system heavily draws upon these things.

 

[First Baseman]

The first commandment is explicit. There is only one God and no others.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

When I say "Abrahamic mythology", I am referring to the the grand collective combination of biblical lore, kabbalistic lore, quranic lore, the lore of Abrahamic apocrypha, and miscellaneous lore about Abrahamic perspectives of demons and angels and heaven and hell and God.

It sounds very discerning, but no less sloppily labeled.

 

[Aštra’el]

The first commandment is explicit. There is only one God and no others.

"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"

One might interpret this as "Acknowledge and worship YHWH as the highest and greatest God"... but I can also see how another might interpret it as "believe in no other gods but YHWH"...

 

[Neo Deist]

It doesn't work to believe in free will and then claim to be monotheistic.

Wanna bet?

 

[Sleeppy]

Wanna bet?

Bet.

 

[Neo Deist]

Bet.

My beliefs:

God created the universe, including the laws of nature, and set everything in motion. Living beings, especially humans, have free will. In other words, we make our own choices and take the consequences; good or bad. God does not control us or our destination. If God were to intervene, it would no longer be free will. That is why bad things happen to good people; human choices. Besides, what good would an end time judgment be if God was in control? He would be judging His own actions.

I believe in one deity; God. No other being can hold that title, as they were all created by God. Everything has a purpose and is in the universe by design, even if we do not understand it.

You lost the bet.

 

[First Baseman]

"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me"

One might interpret this as "Acknowledge and worship YHWH as the highest and greatest God"... but I can also see how another might interpret it as "believe in no other gods but YHWH"...

Very good. I admire your knowledge. But there is also:

Isaiah 45:5-6New International Version (NIV)
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
people may know there is none besides me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other.

 

[Sleeppy]

My beliefs:

God created the universe, including the laws of nature, and set everything in motion. Living beings, especially humans, have free will. In other words, we make our own choices and take the consequences; good or bad. God does not control us or our destination. If God were to intervene, it would no longer be free will. That is why bad things happen to good people; human choices. Besides, what good would an end time judgment be if God was in control? He would be judging His own actions.

I believe in one deity; God. No other being can hold that title, as they were all created by God. Everything has a purpose and is in the universe by design, even if we do not understand it.

You lost the bet.

Free will implicitly contradicts monotheism. With this idea, the will of man is free to subvert God's will, effectively nullifying His authority. It's called autolatry; a form of idolatry.

 

[Neo Deist]

Free will implicitly contradicts monotheism. With this idea, the will of man is free to subvert God's will, effectively nullifying His authority. It's called autolatry; a form of idolatry.

No it does not. Monotheism simply means the belief in a single deity. Free will has nothing to do with the number of gods/goddesses there are.

If God gave us free will because It did not want a bunch of automatons running around, then so be it. That is my belief and something that you can't challenge.

What you are describing is YOUR personal belief between free will and God's authority...I dare say predestination.

 

[Sleeppy]

No it does not. Monotheism simply means the belief in a single deity. Free will has nothing to do with the number of gods/goddesses there are.

If God gave us free will because It did not want a bunch of automatons running around, then so be it. That is my belief and something that you can't challenge.

What you are describing is YOUR personal belief between free will and God's authority...I dare say predestination.

With free will, you are declaring yourself a god, capable subverting God's will.

 

[Neo Deist]

With free will, you are declaring yourself a god, capable subverting God's will.

Uh, no.

I believe that God gave us the freedom of choice. Do you really think God cares whether you wear a blue shirt or a white one today? Do you think God cares if you eat a taco or a cheeseburger? How about taking a dump...do you think God controls whether you drop one long turd, or three short ones?

If you think that God controls everything and all are subject to Its divine authority, then why in the hell would there be a judgment (Revelation 20)? God would be a hypocrite because It would be judging us based on what It controlled and caused in the first place. There would be no such thing as sin because God would cause the sin, thus removing our responsibility.

In other words...

God (today): Pete, go commit murder. Rape three women. Burn down a black church in an act of racism. This is my will!
God (at judgment): Pete, why did you commit murder, rape women and burn down a church?
Pete: Uh...because you made me do it, since you control everything and all are subject to your will.
God: You will burn in hell for eternity for my actions!

Yeah. Time to rethink your position on free will.

 

[Sleeppy]

Uh, no.

I believe that God gave us the freedom of choice. Do you really think God cares whether you wear a blue shirt or a white one today? Do you think God cares if you eat a taco or a cheeseburger? How about taking a dump...do you think God controls whether you drop one long turd, or three short ones?

If you think that God controls everything and all are subject to Its divine authority, then why in the hell would there be a judgment (Revelation 20)? God would be a hypocrite because It would be judging us based on what It controlled and caused in the first place. There would be no such thing as sin because God would cause the sin, thus removing our responsibility.

In other words...

God (today): Pete, go commit murder. Rape three women. Burn down a black church in an act of racism. This is my will!
God (at judgment): Pete, why did you commit murder, rape women and burn down a church?
Pete: Uh...because you made me do it, since you control everything and all are subject to your will.
God: You will burn in hell for eternity for my actions!

Yeah. Time to rethink your position on free will.

Simply saying "no", doesn't negate the fact. You think you can subvert God's will, with your own.

Jesus didn't believe in free will, and that is very evident in the things he taught, and in the people he taught them to.


Revelation is a stumbling block. Don't believe what isn't evident.

 

[Neo Deist]

You think you can subvert God's will, with your own.

For crying out loud, it has nothing to do with subverting God's will. God gave us free will; the ability to think for ourselves and make our own choices.

Obviously you believe that God controls everything and all that is happens for His reasons. Ok, fine. Here is a test for you...

Get in your car and go on the interstate. Floor the gas pedal, take your hands off the steering wheel and close your eyes. If God is in control and wants you to make it to your destination, He will drive the car for you and you'll arrive unharmed.

(don't actually do that...it won't be pretty)

 

[Sleeppy]

For crying out loud, it has nothing to do with subverting God's will. God gave us free will; the ability to think for ourselves and make our own choices.

Obviously you believe that God controls everything and all that is happens for His reasons. Ok, fine. Here is a test for you...

Get in your car and go on the interstate. Floor the gas pedal, take your hands off the steering wheel and close your eyes. If God is in control and wants you to make it to your destination, He will drive the car for you and you'll arrive unharmed.

(don't actually do that...it won't be pretty)

God isn't a fool, is He? I won't test Him where I've known Him.