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Abrogation in the Quran

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Can you support possibility of abrogation of the Quran?

As many verses are contrary to it. Also proof that Quran does not need to be abrogated is within the same verse people ignorantly state to be in accordance with their abrogation theory:

[Qur'an 2:107] "Whatever Sign We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than that or the like thereof. Dost thou not know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills?"

According to the Holy Quran prior scriptures were abrogated and forgotten because they were time-limited. The distinction is that Quran was protected in text because it wasn't time limited, hence it is stated to be "perfected". This shows that Religion evolves, the central theme stays the same but just as mankind evolved religion evolved. But such evolution has a peak before its fall, that peak is Islam. After Islam will only follow the end of this generation when they finally go astray from this message post acceptance.

Moreover, the message of the Quran is protected through Mujjadids in each century, in each century God raises Imams. Which is why Quran is not only protected in physical form but protected against distortion.

In addition to my other posts such as #17, I believe the Sharia of Islam is substituted by Aqdas, the Baha'i Book of Laws. but since the OP is in Quran debate thread, I'd rather not get into the details of comparing Aqdas and Quran Shariah Laws. Specifically, I believe whatever Shariah Law we find in Quran, is replaced with another Law revealed in Aqdas that is better and more suitable for our Age.
 

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
In addition to my other posts such as #17, I believe the Sharia of Islam is substituted by Aqdas, the Baha'i Book of Laws. but since the OP is in Quran debate thread, I'd rather not get into the details of comparing Aqdas and Quran Shariah Laws. Specifically, I believe whatever Shariah Law we find in Quran, is replaced with another Law revealed in Aqdas that is better and more suitable for our Age.

I am aware of Bahai beliefs. So the purpose of this thread is to debate using the Quran if is is abrogated. Surely Allah (swt) can do as he pleases (in ref post 17), but that is not a basis to argue that he has done so. Especially if we find it contrary to verses that clearly state religion has been "perfected" with the coming of Islam.

If you have Quranic evidence to present, share it and I will respond to it.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
I am aware of Bahai beliefs. So the purpose of this thread is to debate using the Quran if is is abrogated. Surely Allah (swt) can do as he pleases (in ref post 17), but that is not a basis to argue that he has done so. Especially if we find it contrary to verses that clearly state religion has been "perfected" with the coming of Islam.

If you have Quranic evidence to present, share it and I will respond to it.

If you are talking about, whether or not any of laws in Quran, were abrogated by some of the later verses in Quran, then that would be a different topic, than if we are talking about the possibility of another revelation after Quran that would abrogate Quran shariah.
With regards to the first topic, I can remember that some of the Laws in the beginning of Quran were not as restricted as later, so for example, drinking wine was only prohibited if one wanted to say his prayer, but later became more restricted under all conditions. This may be view as an abrogation or gradual modification of that Law.
With regards to second topic, whether it can be deduced from Quran if another revelation is possible or not, I would say, sure, depending how you interpret Quran. As regards to completion or perfection of Islam, this does not necessarily mean no more revelations from God. When looking at the topic of completion in the whole Quran, we see the favor and Book of God was completed and perfected before Quran, and the completion is not limited to only Islam, but also previous revelations.
Please see this site for the verses: Completion of Religion - what does it mean?

In fact God does not do anything except it is perfect and complete. But this completion or perfection is according to the requirement and exigencies of the time and age. Therefore it was revealed in Quran "to each Age its Book, He abrogates or Confirms what He wills"
Another rational argument is that, the absolute perfection and absolute Truth is only and only restricted to God, therefore in this physical earthly world, the absolute truth and perfection who is God Himself, has never appeared and never shall appear for He is too high, but only a relative truth according to the requirements and capacity of mankind in every Age is revealed. It is like a man who was sick, and the Perfect Physician formulated a perfect Medicine to cure him. In another time same man has a different sickness, and therefore the Perfect Physician formulates a new perfect medicine to cure him. Likewise God from His own Perfect wisdom formulates a new set of teachings and Laws according to the problems and social diseases of the body of mankind in every Age. As mankind in every age has different problems to be solved, therefore a new Law is required in every Age, so for example, at the time of Muhammad, some Arabs buried their daughters alive, so He revealed a Law for that. In Jesus time, too many Jews were divorcing wives, and Jesus revealed a new Law of divorce which was more restricted than before. The disease of our Age to be cured is disunity, therefore Baha'u'llah revealed Laws and teachings to cure this sickness, and 1000 years later also when another revelation comes, it deals with the problems of its own Age.
 
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Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Naskh is just a method of preserving textual conformity simply. The Qur'an has many errors in it along with many false claims. None of this invalidates it but it is not a book of factual information as it is a reformation of myths that came before it.

As Rational Mind pointed out earlier, the Qur'an itself is unclear and does not define many of the things it says as they must be understood through very cultural eyes which is the result of any mythology formed. They form through cultural norms and cultural interpretations. Naskh is necessary is ensure none of this effects the Qur'an when it is applied abroad
 

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
Naskh is just a method of preserving textual conformity simply. The Qur'an has many errors in it along with many false claims. None of this invalidates it but it is not a book of factual information as it is a reformation of myths that came before it.

Sorry Ahmadi Muslims disagree here. We don't believe there is any errors, false claims, etc in the Quran. What ever contradictions other Muslims today find is due to their lack of understanding and their decay spiritual state.

As Rational Mind pointed out earlier, the Qur'an itself is unclear and does not define many of the things it says as they must be understood through very cultural eyes which is the result of any mythology formed.

I don't remember saying that. Maybe some other statement of mine has been misunderstood. Some teachings of the Holy Quran are left more open for us to adopt to the best of our understanding. But these are more superficial and the reason for them is if Allah (swt) gave clarity in such matter it maybe too hard for some to follow. So it is better for them to understand and follow to the best of their ability. But again these rulings are more superficial in nature.


They form through cultural norms and cultural interpretations. Naskh is necessary is ensure none of this effects the Qur'an when it is applied abroad
We believe there is no Naskh in the Quran period. Cultural practices are acceptable as long as they do not clash with the teachings of Islam.
 

Yuusif12

Member
Yes of course some of the Quran was abrogated

"Whichever Ayah We "nansakh" or cause to be forgotten We replace it with its equal or with that which is greater, did you not know that God is capable of all things?" 2:106

The example cited most in books of legal theory [usul al-fiqh] is that of the verse, “It is prescribed for you, when death approaches any of you, if he leaves any wealth that he make a bequest to parents and next of kin…” [2:180]
The legal ruling derived from the verse is that a bequest to parents and relatives is prescribed and hence mandatory. This ruling is considered abrogated by the following hadith, “There is no bequest for an inheritor.” [Tirmidhi, Ibn Maja, Daraqutni]

The abrogated ayah could be abrogated reading and ruling or just one
 
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