Right. There are good and bad theists. There are good and bad atheists. What we observe is that religion won't make bad people good. But it can make bad people very bad.
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Absence of good in atheism
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Truth vs. lie is a a religious term? Texas is the largest state in America. Nope, Alaska is. One is true, one is a lie. Enjoy the religious discussion.
Let me make one observation: you have never heard of an atheist who says, "I believe that no God wants you dead, and therefore, because I believe in 'no God,' I'm going to kill you."
By the way, your post is essentially hateful.
I think terms like "good" and "evil" are too generalized and vague as to have any real meaning. Some people might do bad and despicable things, so it might be fair to call someone "evil" under those circumstances. But I don't really believe in it as a supernatural concept.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
These are subjective terms that are normally judged versus some "goal."
For example, a simplistic goal of "less harm" would make harming things "evil" and not harming things "good." However, a goal of "make my in-group more wealthy" may very well judge all sorts of harm done to others as "good" because those things might end up increasing the wealth of that in-group (for example - dumping industrial waste into community water sources). That ease of dumping the waste saves the in-group (a corporation perhaps) money, and is therefore "good" toward the goal of increasing the in-group's wealth. But that community of people may very well have different goals by which they judge "good" - and some of those things very likely include their own health concerns. And so the waste dumping, to them, is deemed "evil."
This is the whole reason why you have people acting in their own self interests to the detriment of others around them - because "good" was being judged by some other criteria when such decisions were made that ultimately caused harm.
Hopefully you read the above, and grasp the concepts I am bringing to the table here. This should help to shed some light on errors in your way of thinking that "good" and "evil" are some real/tangible thing that everyone must necessarily accept as being "the same" regardless their place in the world. This just simply isn't the case, and the evidence that it is not plays itself out all around us all the time.
I start having a slight suspicion of the root cause of all your papers being rejected.
ciao
- viole
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
By your own “logic”, the following statement is absolutely true, and you @questfortruth are not able to wail against it, since you spelled it out in your OP…
“There is no evil in atheism.”
Of course the rest of us, along with you, will continue to exist in the real world, and not your simplistic construct.
And if the poster is a theist, what does it tell us about how theism influences the mortal in how they relate to others? Good or bad influence?
"One day I was sitting in my car, and I looked out the window and saw God. I rolled the window down and asked, "Do you have any valuable words for me, God?" He said, in the strongest, surest voice I've ever heard. "ATHEISTS ARE BAD. DON"T EVER FORGET THAT!" So what was I to do?"
AlexanderG
Active Member
I'll bite...
Can you be hungry without feeling absolute hunger? Can something be red without being absolutely red? Can something be valuable without having absolute value, like gold?
If so, then why must good be absolute? I see good and evil as opposite ends of a spectrum, where good is a label we put on things that lead to outcomes we prefer, and evil is the opposite. There are plenty of things I consider good, and I think some things are more good than other things. Why is this difficult?
You can argue that on atheism, good and evil are subjective, but I don't see how theism solves this. You can say your god labels something as absolutely good, but how is this god's opinion not also subjective, namely dependent on a particular mind? What if someone else's god disagrees? Or a third god? It all seems subjective to me. Objective means true independent of any minds, which theism certainly doesn't claim. "Absolute" means true and good in all circumstances, and I don't see how you can verify, justify, or defend such a claim.
I challenge you to list a set of absolute goods, which are always good in every circumstance. Go on and lay down your cards. It's very difficult to get a theist to ever list absolute goods or morals, so I'm curious to see what yours are. I'll bet you anything that other people even in your same denomination will disagree with you about some or all of them.
In fact, I see this talk of absolutes as a tactic for insisting you're totally correct and there's no possible chance you could be wrong. It seems like a psychological sentiment that a lot of theists need, since they have no actual evidence to support their beliefs and blind unjustified insistence is all that's left to them. It just shores up your own doubts. It's a flimsy tool for you and no one else. All someone has to do is disagree with you, and you're left with nothing to stand on but your personal feelings. And those don't trump my personal feelings, as much as you wish they did.
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I think you are a lost cause, mate - despite your apparent (self-confessed) smartness!
stvdv
Veteran Member
You are right
Atheists define Atheism as "lack of belief in God".
Hence there is no "Good" in Atheism, just "lack of belief in God"
Terrible analogy. The belief in God over the millennia has lead to immense evil and violence,
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It is like talking about non-stamp collectors. It is an old analogy and obviously not mine but I am going to use it.
Not collecting stamps does not provide you with a moral framework. There is no absolute good or evil in not collecting stamps. That doesn’t make people who don’t collect stamps evil, nor does it mean they have no concept of good and evil. It just means they don’t get it from not collecting stamps.
firedragon
Veteran Member
You are absolutely right.
But the reply to you will be, people are bad because of God and that from an atheist.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
What incredibly weak faith you have to be CONSTANTLY threatened by the fact that I don't believe like you do. It's rather sad.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I was just telling someone this rhetoric would come up, and I just saw yours to confirm it.
Nevertheless, in this isolation of "belief in God", does that mean there is more violence lead by belief in God or equal to other motivations or is mediocre?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Why would they be? Truth becomes relative and so do lies if we are a law unto ourselves.
No, it means belief nor belief in God(s) has anything to with the nature of being human and committing good or evil acts.
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