Absolute proof against the existence of God, as described in the Abrahamic religions

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Our religious texts, from Moses through Mohammed (and possibly others, but I don't care) make one thing absolutely clear: what God truly wants -- IS. They tell us God wanted the heavens and earth, and they therefore happened. That he wanted man, and nothing could stop it.

Oh, and later, that he wanted all the "first born" of Egypt to die -- and they died. This god has such perfect aim that he was able to immediately kill, in one night, every person and every animal in the land of Egypt who was the first out of any womb (and presumably egg, though that's not specifically mentioned. I assume "hatched" is the equivalent of "born"). Or this God wants the whole earth covered with water so that everybody and everything non-aquatic dies, except for a few he decides to save. And it happens.

What God wants to happen, I say again, according to these religions, happens -- and nothing can stop it.

And we are also told that this God wants to be known by us, and to be worshipped, in full apprehension of his nature.

And yet....this doesn't happen! All that we appear to "know" about the nature of God, about how to worship, of what he wants, about how we should behave --- we know from billions of humans running around and arguing vociferously for this view, or that version, or these prayers, ot this set of rules. And we never, ever manage to work it out definitively.

And what's the reason? Because it's US. God doesn't want anything -- because as we know, what God wants, God gets. And this failure of ours to settle on one God, our incessant schismatic fracturing, really ought to be all the proof any thinking person needs that the proposed God simply doesn't exist -- and that that's why the state of our religious bickering is what it is.

 

[Kenny]

And what's the reason? Because it's US. God doesn't want anything -- because as we know, what God wants, God gets.

I'm not sure your premise is correct.

Maybe the biggest support of God is that there are so many people who are totally upset about God?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm not sure your premise is correct.

Maybe the biggest support of God is that there are so many people who are totally upset about God?

I found the same thing when I last visited the small islands of Lilliput and Blefuscu. It seems that the natives warred constantly and could never resolve whether it was correct to open your breakfast egg at the little end or the large end. Both nations follow the teachings of a prophet, Lustrog, as recorded in their scripture, known as the Blundecral ("which is their Alcoran or Bible, we don't really know"). Sectarian divisions exist in the debate between "Little-Endians" and "Big-Endians."

Well, you can understand why, I'm sure....

 

[Kenny]

I found the same thing when I last visited the small islands of Lilliput and Blefuscu. It seems that the natives warred constantly and could never resolve whether it was correct to open your breakfast egg at the little end or the large end. Both nations follow the teachings of a prophet, Lustrog, as recorded in their scripture, known as the Blundecral ("which is their Alcoran or Bible, we don't really know"). Sectarian divisions exist in the debate between "Little-Endians" and "Big-Endians."

Well, you can understand why, I'm sure....

Yes... people are people.

Even the people of Lilliput! We can't even get the atheists to be in agreement

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm not sure where you the get the idea that everything God wills, comes to pass, as He gave His creatures free will and a mind to think for themselves. We are free to go against His will.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm not sure where you the get the idea that everything God wills, comes to pass, as He gave His creatures free will and a mind to think for themselves. We are free to go against His will.

Look in on my 10 Commandments thread soon...number 10 makes even thinking a crime, and I'm no fan of thought crimes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Look in on my 10 Commandments thread soon...number 10 makes even thinking a crime, and I'm no fan of thought crimes.

The Ten Commandments are ethical laws, and you're obviously free to break them. So you mentioning that is irrelevant. Again, we have free will.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Free Will (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[Twilight Hue]

Our religious texts, from Moses through Mohammed (and possibly others, but I don't care) make one thing absolutely clear: what God truly wants -- IS. They tell us God wanted the heavens and earth, and they therefore happened. That he wanted man, and nothing could stop it.

Oh, and later, that he wanted all the "first born" of Egypt to die -- and they died. This god has such perfect aim that he was able to immediately kill, in one night, every person and every animal in the land of Egypt who was the first out of any womb (and presumably egg, though that's not specifically mentioned. I assume "hatched" is the equivalent of "born"). Or this God wants the whole earth covered with water so that everybody and everything non-aquatic dies, except for a few he decides to save. And it happens.

What God wants to happen, I say again, according to these religions, happens -- and nothing can stop it.

And we are also told that this God wants to be known by us, and to be worshipped, in full apprehension of his nature.

And yet....this doesn't happen! All that we appear to "know" about the nature of God, about how to worship, of what he wants, about how we should behave --- we know from billions of humans running around and arguing vociferously for this view, or that version, or these prayers, ot this set of rules. And we never, ever manage to work it out definitively.

And what's the reason? Because it's US. God doesn't want anything -- because as we know, what God wants, God gets. And this failure of ours to settle on one God, our incessant schismatic fracturing, really ought to be all the proof any thinking person needs that the proposed God simply doesn't exist -- and that that's why the state of our religious bickering is what it is.

That's why it's strictly from the imagination of people.

It's crazy someone would read a book that you don't even know the authors and automatically say it's true because it's old, nothing ever really happens that can't be countered explained, there's nothing unique whatsoever in comparison to other religions and beliefs, an experience might help an individual in their own perception but it won't do a lick of good for anybody else, and who cares about a God that's deaf, blind, dumb, and mute?

 

[Kenny]

Look in on my 10 Commandments thread soon...number 10 makes even thinking a crime, and I'm no fan of thought crimes.

I don't think the Jewish sages on RF would agree with that point.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't think the Jewish sages on RF would agree with that point.

How would you know? I haven't written it yet!

 

[osgart]

I'm not sure where you the get the idea that everything God wills, comes to pass, as He gave His creatures free will and a mind to think for themselves. We are free to go against His will.

Free to go against His will is freedom to be doomed hinged on a belief of His existence though. If I knew He existed I would know to accept His offer. Since I honestly have no reliable record of Him it strains credulity of the claims.

Straight up, offer me salvation face to face and then explain His morality, and the truth and motivations behind it all. Why the run around? And a thousand different believable roads to choose from?

If I take the Bible at face value I'm seeing a vengeful God, against creatures who barely have enough time to test the winds before they are exterminated. Generations come and go, and all of a sudden doom without any explanation until Jesus.

 

[Deidre]

When I think about the Bible in its entirety, I think that the OT is a foundation of faith, and a story of ancient civilizations that recorded their experiences of God and faith. The NT builds from that foundation. But if we read through the OT, it can be seen that God is merciful, slow to anger, etc. As human readers and critics, we make the mistake of cherry picking and then claiming that God is nothing but wrathful and seeks revenge. Like any other story, I wouldn't read chapter 1, skip the next 5, read the end, and think I've got a good handle on the plot. But, we do that with the Bible, for some reason.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Free to go against His will is freedom to be doomed hinged on a belief of His existence though. If I knew He existed I would know to accept His offer. Since I honestly have no reliable record of Him it strains credulity of the claims.

Straight up, offer me salvation face to face and then explain His morality, and the truth and motivations behind it all. Why the run around? And a thousand different believable roads to choose from?

If I take the Bible at face value I'm seeing a vengeful God, against creatures who barely have enough time to test the winds before they are exterminated. Generations come and go, and all of a sudden doom without any explanation until Jesus.

There are many different ways of looking at God and the Bible. The one I believe in makes the most sense to me based on years of study and contemplation. The God you describe in your last paragraph is foreign to me. Life is a pilgrimage and I sincerely do not believe God is so petty as to punish someone for truly trying and not understanding.

 

[rational experiences]

Spiritual self experience reality, human memory, first 2 human parents memory and owned vision self recording....which can transmit to a human psyche...shows our spirit self coming into manifested life from out of the eternal.

God O historically is said to have separated from the eternal by the eternal being having caused it.....as a spirit conscious self, highest form consciousness.

Space became the separation condition.

We came into life manifestation only after the heavenly mass of God came back into existence, gas cooled, mass that contacted the eternal. Human memory says God created the spirit to be caused/formed in the eternal...the eternal spirit owns/holds its own being....so God unnaturally forced spirit to leave the eternal.

How it was taught.

O God rationally by a conscious ideal was once O a body of gases burning in space as light. We live and own life in gas light.

Gas light goes cool in spatial pressure and emptiness...God dies...light goes out...God spiritually died.

God the spirit of....gases were resurrected and arose out of the law of the mountain the volcano.....were healed and became Immaculate in the spatial empty womb.

How God is explained historically.

The eternal first historic release of an eternal being spirit body removal.....said the first microbes were when the heavenly resurrection of the God gas spirit owned light before it became cold dark gas clear gases in space.

How an eternal being first owned the spirit conscious presence of a consciousness communicating out from its natural eternal spirit body....fact of truth/conscious realization.

Then the Sun attacked Earth and gave it back to burning light gases, when it had previously owned clear Gases.

God the spirit memory of the eternal first, was reactivated as memory.

What I was taught by circumstance of self evidence. How a human male...who owned the image of the real creator eternal being.....sacrificed his human bio life by machine information....then replaced his origin God father image in the heavenly cloud amassing....for the amassing of clouds removes previous colder atmospheric gases. Night time after all historically is stated to be set alight as eve REMOVAL of even balances 12 natural light and 12 non burning light as science activation.

How extra cloud amassing was caused.

Coldest gases origin is spatial womb zero...which owns the coldest gases being present...reactive science removed the spatial cold zero support of 12 night time gases....so cloud mass increased to save us.

Teaching about God relativity as told only by human beings.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yes... people are people.

Even the people of Lilliput! We can't even get the atheists to be in agreement

Atheists are the last people who should be 'in agreement'.

 

[rational experiences]

If an a theist says I have proof against God existing, it would be no Earth, theoretically in his make believe land, to think and pose thoughts.

A theory.

He would say the ^ mountain tip by O UFO mass to o UFO mass removed that mass of stone…...and then he would cause sink holes to that depth also as proof of his science formula/theory, human thought upon reality.

If a male in his thoughts/pose and theories looks at a real planet O stone and says I will name this body MASS O, energy and also GOD, then he did.

If he says and the planet acts like a machine, and he does not even own a machine then....virtually has said God is a machine.

So God the machine in original theories/thoughts.

God the machine O the planet makes its own gases....non stop gases out of its energy body.

Real machine theory, his machine is just a machine taken out of God history that he already converted to build a machine.

And then any gases he uses...taken out of the exact same God mass stone body.

Seems unrealistic to think he is actually intelligent....it seems like his spiritual science brother who thinks invention with as little change and harm, or to harmonize and work with the planet was the real scientist.....seems he is just the Destroyer occultist actually.

So if our brother says God the machine owns a volcanic mass surrounding its core condition....then no machine can copy God the machine in reality.

And if our brother says God the planet machine makes steam and oh yes we can utilize the natural thermal properties of God the machine, then he is talking planet and no other state.

If he says he can copy a Sun, then we all know historically how that story ends....we all self combusted.

 

[Heyo]

I'm not sure where you the get the idea that everything God wills, comes to pass, as He gave His creatures free will and a mind to think for themselves. We are free to go against His will.

You aren't arguing against @Evangelicalhumanist 's point.
To summarise, he says

There is no entity that is omnipotent (what it wills, happens) and that wills us to know it.
(Because we don't know it and that goes against its will, which is absolute.)

Your argument is

There is an entity that is not omnipotent.

You didn't really address the claim, There is no contradiction.

 

[rational experiences]

The will of God.

To summarize what will means, owns 2 descriptions.

A testimony to the dead....being a written compiled document about the deceased to be.....or to become.

God's will, God the stone O is deceased, entombed Saints says the scientist as a theme of old scientific symbolism.

God's will in creation....once alight gases. We say in life gases burning produce light, light is our life....as per stone information.

God's will then became cold/deceased, the tomb itself...the will of God historically, became cold and without light gases.....as per stone information.

As the will of the Testament about God.

In life humans know that life is owner of the freedom to express will naturally, for all life is natural. And we own conflict in that will of expression, for factually I would state that animals would prefer not to be eaten, the same as we do not.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There are many different ways of looking at God and the Bible. The one I believe in makes the most sense to me based on years of study and contemplation. The God you describe in your last paragraph is foreign to me. Life is a pilgrimage and I sincerely do not believe God is so petty as to punish someone for truly trying and not understanding.

Truly trying what?