absolute truth

[jonjohnrob11]

when i hear two people argue over some doctrine, ie. ressurection, and both believe they are right, when only one can be, then it makes me wonder how doctrines are determined and who has the authority to proclaim the absolute truth, as Jesus is not going to interrupt them to settle their dispute. there are so many different denominations and all differ in what they believe. it seems to me only one can be absoutely right and i wonder how to determine which church is the absolutely correct one. evidently any denomination that has changed it's doctrine/s can't be the one so can someone tell me a denomination that hasn't ever changed what they believe. and if so who is its leader or representative, as only one man logically would have the God-given authority to decide what is absolutely true and what's not. if there were more than one man then two differing decisions could possibly made, which would bring me back to square one. i know the majority isn't always right as can be seen in instances in the Bible, so i've come to the conclusion, God has one representative on deciding beliefs. i know it's not me and i doubt very much anyone reading this would have that God-given power. new problems arise, like artificial birth control, nuclear war, etc. and we must know the truth(absolute) and i know God's laws don't change with peoples age or whims. someone please tell me what denomination encompasses my needs and every one elses. butch

 

[Isis]

Simple as this: there is no truth.
What each of us believes is percptual. I can not convince you any more that Christ did not exist than that all grass is green. We percive what we choose to percive and man is only as good as his understanding of choice. There is no one doctrine that will encompase all beliefs other than understanding and tolerance. I do not believe in 'god' but I do not dissuade anyone else from believing it (though I will talk through their beliefs to see where we agree and disagree) I understand that all our beliefs stem into some spiritual power, enlightenment if you will, and how you choose to celebrate it is your choice (going to church, wearing ceremonial garbs, or modifying your body). as long as you do not inforce your beliefs upon any other and tolerate the fact that different peopl, with different upbringings have different beliefs, then we all can live a happy and fruifull life.
I believe we are all in the search for knowledge (not truth, because that is an endpoint and any conclusion is a place where someone got tired of thinking) and through spiritual ballance we can strive for pure knowledge (unbiased by the need to be 'right' and instead growing from the experiance).

 

[dolcevita]

You never have to argue when you know the truth

 

[Runt]

Rather look at it like this... religions are ultimatly human inventions, and as mere humans (rather than God) our perception of the "ultimate reality" is limited... EVEN if God reveals part of that truth to us.

I find it more fulfilling to believe that all religions contain merit and have touched on a little spark of the truth, rather than believing that they are all wrong or all but one of them are wrong.

We can't chose the religion that is the "truth"... assuming that one of them really IS the truth, the best chance we have in ending up in it is just that... pure chance. Instead, it is best to find one that either makes sense to us, or provides us with something that we need in THIS life (rather than trying to consolidate us with the next life... because we won't discover THAT truth until we are dead... if then...)

And, because I am who I am, I have to poke some holes in your logic...

and both believe they are right, when only one can be,

It is possible that neither of them are true...

who has the authority to proclaim the absolute truth, as Jesus is not going to interrupt them to settle their dispute.

Perhaps nobody has that authority, and everyone just THINKS they do... and how do we know Jesus really knew the truth?

it seems to me only one can be absoutely right

Or none...

i wonder how to determine which church is the absolutely correct one.

Just chose the one that feels right for you... that is all any of us can do (unless we chose to be agnostic or atheist, which is okay too )

evidently any denomination that has changed it's doctrine/s can't be the one so can someone tell me a denomination that hasn't ever changed what they believe.

How do you know this denomination that has changed it's doctrine didn't change it to the True one? You can move toward something, as well as away...

so can someone tell me a denomination that hasn't ever changed what they believe

I seriously doubt there are any...the spiritual Truth may be God's (or may not... ), but religions are made by men, and our culture is always in a state of flux...

as only one man logically would have the God-given authority to decide what is absolutely true and what's not

Unless God gave part of its knowledge of Truth to multiple men, or multiple cultures, knowing that humanity would not be ready for the full spiritual truth until we could come together as one species in tolerance and harmony... and put together the different parts of the knowledge to form the "whole picture". (My Jigsaw Theory... I should post it sometime; it is fun )

and i doubt very much anyone reading this would have that God-given power

You never know... 8)

new problems arise, like artificial birth control, nuclear war, etc. and we must know the truth(absolute) and i know God's laws don't change with peoples age or whims

Maybe God is not black and white but gray...

someone please tell me what denomination encompasses my needs and every one elses.

Unitarianism (no, really...)

 

[jonjohnrob11]

please refer to my new post: truth and conscience
butch

 

[jonjohnrob11]

cults are institutions like church, synagogue, government, family, groups, shelters, etc. culture is what a person derrives or chooses to follow as a way of life. nations are cults and each city is a cult if i may. we all have some culture in common especially spiritual truth that is obvious and/or subtle.

 

[Death]

when i hear two people argue over some doctrine, ie. ressurection, and both believe they are right, when only one can be, then it makes me wonder how doctrines are determined and who has the authority to proclaim the absolute truth

Only an omniscient entity could proclaim the absolute truth.

as Jesus is not going to interrupt them to settle their dispute. there are so many different denominations and all differ in what they believe. it seems to me only one can be absoutely right and i wonder how to determine which church is the absolutely correct one.

False dichotomy, you missed out how christianity as a whole could be wrong, another religion could be right, or all religions could be wrong and another god exists and contradicts all of christianity. Or no gods may exist.

evidently any denomination that has changed it's doctrine/s can't be the one

Why not?

so can someone tell me a denomination that hasn't ever changed what they believe.

Several have stayed fairly consistent, othrodox ones mainly.

and if so who is its leader or representative, as only one man logically would have the God-given authority to decide what is absolutely true and what's not.

No, only an oniscient person could claim anything absolutely. The rest of us have to rely on reasonable doubt.

if there were more than one man then two differing decisions could possibly made, which would bring me back to square one.

Any 2 people knowing the absolute truth would say the same thing, so they wouldn't disagree.

i know the majority isn't always right as can be seen in instances in the Bible, so i've come to the conclusion, God has one representative on deciding beliefs. i know it's not me and i doubt very much anyone reading this would have that God-given power. new problems arise, like artificial birth control, nuclear war, etc. and we must know the truth(absolute) and i know God's laws don't change with peoples age or whims. someone please tell me what denomination encompasses my needs and every one elses. butch

It's better to think for yourself than be told what to think by a congregation or collection of myths. Examine the situation and evaluate possible outcomes based on the situation and go for the outcome you believe to be for the best for everyone involved.

Whether it was the best thing to do or not you will be judged upon by those you effected.

Simple as this: there is no truth.

I disagree. We perceive thanks to an objective "truth" or reality existing. Our perceptions are subjective, but they only exist because objective reality does.

We may never have absolute objectivity or "truth", but we can have clearly more objective opinions and views than others.

In addition, your point is self refuting, "there is no truth" would be true if you were correct, which is a contradiction.

 

[painted wolf]

Absolute truth is a lie

wa:-do

 

[Green Gaia]

***MOD POST***

I'm moving this to the General Religion Discussion forum. The Christianity forum is for learning about Christianity, and this thread can be applied to all religions. So please continue the discussion there. Thank you.

 

[Master Vigil]

It is true, I don't believe one person can know truth to its fullest. There is one truth, but we all percieve that truth in our own ways. Like runts jigsaw theory. hehe.

 

[jonjohnrob11]

runts jigsaw theory is best explained by predjudice, and predjudice is not being a runt.

 

[Runt]

runts jigsaw theory is best explained by predjudice, and predjudice is not being a runt.

LOL, what?

 

[Master Vigil]

We all are prejudice though, aren't we? You don't like things for one reason or another. You don't like one person for one reason or another. No matter how we hate it, its there. And its all because we do not know what is truely right, or truely wrong, so we must make due with what we feel.

 

[Runt]

We all are prejudice though, aren't we? You don't like things for one reason or another. You don't like one person for one reason or another. No matter how we hate it, its there. And its all because we do not know what is truely right, or truely wrong, so we must make due with what we feel.

Yeah, of course. Everyone is biased, and even if they try to be tolerent and understand where other people are coming from, they still generally think they are "right" and others are "wrong".

But what does this have to do with my Jigsaw Puzzle theory?

Jigsaw Puzzle Theory:

God gave a LITTLE of Its knowledge to each religion. It knew that until we could come together as ONE people (religiously as well as culturally), we would not be READY for a full spiritual truth. So each religion contains a small part of the truth, and we will only get the full picture when we come together as a global society (humanity), put all the religions together, mix them up, and hold up the product to see what we've got. I think the total spiritual reality is more than any of us can comprehend right now, so we simply don't see it. Instead, we see little bits and pieces, and there is so much arguing because we will not, CANNOT agree that our small little group of people are not God's only "Chosen Ones" and that everyone else is in need of reeducation...

 

[painted wolf]

Runt your UU is showing :lol:

I think when you realy look at it every religion is based on the same ideals but with different spins put on them.... Personally I think we all follow the same religion we just dont want to see it that way.

wa:-do

 

[Runt]

Runt your UU is showing

LMAO Painted Wolf. I guess it is, isn't it?

 

[Alaric]

God gave a LITTLE of Its knowledge to each religion. It knew that until we could come together as ONE people (religiously as well as culturally), we would not be READY for a full spiritual truth. So each religion contains a small part of the truth, and we will only get the full picture when we come together as a global society (humanity), put all the religions together, mix them up, and hold up the product to see what we've got. I think the total spiritual reality is more than any of us can comprehend right now, so we simply don't see it. Instead, we see little bits and pieces, and there is so much arguing because we will not, CANNOT agree that our small little group of people are not God's only "Chosen Ones" and that everyone else is in need of reeducation...

Cool! That means that I can create a religion myself that is all about giving me all your possessions and worshipping me, and it will automatically be viable and worth believing 'cuz it's part of the Truth!

Personally I think we all follow the same religion we just dont want to see it that way.

*sob*


<falsetto> I think that everybody is right and nobody is wrong and we should all hold hands and love one another and embrace the positive energy and get to know god who we can't know and use fancy spiritual-sounding words that we don't understand and practice getting one up on those silly scientists who think they're sooo smart but who aren't in touch with their inner fruitcake. Let's all claim to seek the truth but dismiss anything that might rain on our parade unless they can make it sound fluffy and poetic and enigmatic and leave lots of room for our own emotionally based morality and lemming spirits...
*Alaric skips and dances towards the horizon, waving his arms and muttering madly...*

 

[Runt]

Cool! That means that I can create a religion myself that is all about giving me all your possessions and worshipping me, and it will automatically be viable and worth believing 'cuz it's part of the Truth!

Give me a break. Never did I say that your entire religion would contain Truth. Most of it would probably be false, but it might contain one GRAIN of Truth in common with other religions...AND SCIENCE...

And its just a fun theory, not something I believe. Remember, I said God doesn't think, so why would some unthinking God "want" humanity to come together, and why would it make plans in case of that eventuality?

Try thinking outside the box Alaric. It can be fun.

 

[Alaric]

Give me a break. Never did I say that your entire religion would contain Truth.

And I never said you said that - the theory suggested that all religions contain at least a grain of truth, making them all viable and respectable beliefs, which is obviously bull.

Try thinking outside the box Alaric. It can be fun.

Yep, but what is more fun - seeing who can come up with the most outlandish scenario, or seeing who can come up with the most outlandish scenario that can't immediately be written off because of faulty logic or internal contradictions?

Coming up with theories should be like building a robot for Robot Wars - you spend time building it to be as strong as possible, then throw it in the ring and see how long it lasts against the others'! If you haven't applied yourself at all, expect it to be torn apart!

Unless I am grossly misinformed and this isn't a gladiator ring but a poetry reading...

 

[painted wolf]

Sorry Alaric... I know you want me to drop my irattional spiritual belifs in favor of your cynical detatchment but that faith isn't for me 8)

I assume your against philosophy as well?

Anyway I have no problem with Science... As I have told you many times... I went to school hoping to become a scientific illustrator... havent made it yet but who knows?

they never said this was going to be a gladiator ring, debate isn't just about trying to kill off your oponnant... its about learning and reasoning...

Anyway, I stand by what I said... if you look at the philosophy of religion you will find that they all say the same thing...

would the world be so bad if people got off their high horses and actually thought about one another for a change instead of living the Wasitchu way of greed and distruction?

sounds like you already follow your own inner lemming spirit with just a dash of rabies... :lol:

wa:-do