absolute truth

[Mr Spinkles]

painted wolf--
they did pretty good, yes....but they used logic to figure these things out, not inspiration from their god, gods, godesses. The science of today is an improvement on their methods of reasoning.

 

[painted wolf]

true enough... but who says 'god' can't inspire logic and reason?

perhaps logic and science is just another aspect of 'god'/'religion'...? (or perhaps I'm way off base, but if it strives to explain the univerce it strives to understand god in a way)

wa:-do

 

[jonjohnrob11]

God created logic. God already knew the world was round. we didn't. science is logical and God created it. man is not perfect and so sometimes neither is his scientific theories. he needs God's help to explain logic. it takes faith to believe truths about God it only takes a brain with reasoning to know science truths. because God created science we need him to help us understand. u can seek his help by praying to him, although he may not give it to u, depending on his mood or will.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

painted wolf--
Even if God does inspire logic and reason, it doesn't go against the point I was trying to make earlier--that logic and reason help us find the truth better than faith/spirituality. But I definitely see where you're coming from.

jonjohn--
We don't need God's help to explain logic...logic explains itself, otherwise it wouldn't be logic.

 

[Master Vigil]

Meditation in Taoism helps clear the mind so to understand the Tao better. But one first understands the self better. One cannot meditate and understand the Tao before understanding the self. And yes, Taoism is a means to understanding this. But this means does help discover new truths. Its called enlightenment.

 

[Ceridwen018]

God created logic. God already knew the world was round. we didn't.

Did he now. Alright, but that really doesn't explain anything, because you see, we (humans) figured out the earth was round all by ourselves. God can know stuff until his *** bleeds, but at the end of the day, we're gonna figure it out all by our onesies. Am I wrong here? Possibly, the situation coulda played out like this:

God: Chris, wake up, I gotta talk to you.
Christopher Columbus: Wha? Who is that?
God: It's god. Hey listen-- wanna make a huge splash in Spain this year? Want your own fleet of exploration ships? Well I got the scoop of a lifetime!
CC: Are you serious? What is t?
God: Well you see, the Earth's not flat-- its round!
CC: Round? Are you sure?
God: Course i'm sure! I freaking created it for christ's sake! Now get back to sleep kid, you're gonna knoc 'em dead!

science is logical and God created it. man is not perfect and so sometimes neither is his scientific theories. he needs God's help to explain logic.

Say what?? How exactly does god help us? Refer to the above skit. I'm not thinking thats how it works...

You're right, they aren't perfect-- hey! Maybe that's why they call them theories!! Wow, all this time I've been thinking it was something else...

it takes faith to believe truths about God it only takes a brain with reasoning to know science truths.

AHAHAHAHAHA!! :lol: Only a brain with reasoning?? That is CLASSIC!!! Yeah, why don't we turn that around for a minute: religion does not require brains with reasoning, while science does not require blind faith. Don't know about you, but I am CONVERTED baby!

because God created science we need him to help us understand. u can seek his help by praying to him, although he may not give it to u, depending on his mood or will.

Oh so thats the problem then! All this time, its just been that he hasn't been 'in the mood' to answer my prayers! Wow! My hope is totally restored now!!

You know what I think? God doesn't have moods, because moods are imperfect and volatile and completely and utterly human characteristics. I'm not buying it that I didn't get a puppy for Christmas because god had a frickin headache.

 

[jonjohnrob11]

pw: have u ever experienced sorrow for hurting urself or someone else?

i define universe all space without bounds because there is always something on the other side or beyond. new stars appear occaisionally so i read, which means their light has finally reached our planet which means the universe is billions of years old, and it is bound by time, unlike heaven. purgatory, hell and the universe is bound by time.

since u apologize to people, how do u feel when u do that.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

In my humble opinion (this shouldn't surprise Maize, Runt, Alaric, and others 8) ) the way you come closest to absolute truth is through- Science! (go science) It's not perfect, and it can be improved upon- however, it's a MUCH more reliable way of ascertaining the truth than faith is.

Ultimately, if we "look inside ourselves" for spiritual "truth", we'll never get anywhere-everyone has their own feelings and opinions and biases. The scientific method is designed specifically to handle this problem by requiring observation, testing, and the proposing of theories which can later be proven or disproven to overcome our personal prejudices and beliefs and get to the bottom of things.

Back in the day, people's internal spiritual "truth" told them that the Earth was flat, that the Sun revolved around the Earth, that epilepsy was caused by demons, and so on. We take it for granted that the basic "absolute" truths which we have all come to know and love through science (like the fact that the solar system is not geocentric) were once extremely controversial theories which were despised by the religious because it challenged religious doctrine.

Religion has had to yeild to science time and again, because people generally recognize that laws and theories which came about scientifically (like the heliocentric solar system) are far superior to those arrived at "religiously" (whatever that means). In order to maintain any relevance to the truth at all, religions have had to resort to only preaching about what science can not yet prove or cannot (yet) disprove. Many religions like the Catholic Church have started basing/adapting religious doctrines to scientific findings. As the years go by, religion will have less and less relevance to how we come to absolute truth, and science will only gain more and more knowledge as things which were once considered purely metaphysical become things which can be subjected to new scientific developments.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I think it's fair to point out that religions do have some truth in them- they do help people make sense of the world and of themselves. The geocentric universe did describe what people observed every day (in addition to confirming their religious convictions). And I don't think science is infallible. However, science always trumps religion when the two are in conflict.

 

[painted wolf]

mr_spinkles
some anchient people did pretty good.. especally considering they didn't have the benifit of microscopes and such...
figuring out the earth is round(egypt among others), how to predict eclipses(mayans), and brain surgery(inca) among other things. 8)

idealy science and religion can co-exist by focusing on thier respective strenghts...
science explaining the physical world
religion explaining the 'metaphysical world' if you will and how we fit in both it and the physical.

jonjohn-
I feel bad if I do something unintentional to harm another... if I do it on purpose then no, I don't worry about feeling bad... If I do it intentionally then they did something to earn it.

wa:-do

 

[Mr Spinkles]

painted wolf--
they did pretty good, yes....but they used logic to figure these things out, not inspiration from their god, gods, godesses. The science of today is an improvement on their methods of reasoning.

 

[painted wolf]

true enough... but who says 'god' can't inspire logic and reason?

perhaps logic and science is just another aspect of 'god'/'religion'...? (or perhaps I'm way off base, but if it strives to explain the univerce it strives to understand god in a way)

wa:-do

 

[jonjohnrob11]

God created logic. God already knew the world was round. we didn't. science is logical and God created it. man is not perfect and so sometimes neither is his scientific theories. he needs God's help to explain logic. it takes faith to believe truths about God it only takes a brain with reasoning to know science truths. because God created science we need him to help us understand. u can seek his help by praying to him, although he may not give it to u, depending on his mood or will.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

painted wolf--
Even if God does inspire logic and reason, it doesn't go against the point I was trying to make earlier--that logic and reason help us find the truth better than faith/spirituality. But I definitely see where you're coming from.

jonjohn--
We don't need God's help to explain logic...logic explains itself, otherwise it wouldn't be logic.

 

[Ceridwen018]

God created logic. God already knew the world was round. we didn't.

Did he now. Alright, but that really doesn't explain anything, because you see, we (humans) figured out the earth was round all by ourselves. God can know stuff until his *** bleeds, but at the end of the day, we're gonna figure it out all by our onesies. Am I wrong here? Possibly, the situation coulda played out like this:

God: Chris, wake up, I gotta talk to you.
Christopher Columbus: Wha? Who is that?
God: It's god. Hey listen-- wanna make a huge splash in Spain this year? Want your own fleet of exploration ships? Well I got the scoop of a lifetime!
CC: Are you serious? What is t?
God: Well you see, the Earth's not flat-- its round!
CC: Round? Are you sure?
God: Course i'm sure! I freaking created it for christ's sake! Now get back to sleep kid, you're gonna knoc 'em dead!

science is logical and God created it. man is not perfect and so sometimes neither is his scientific theories. he needs God's help to explain logic.

Say what?? How exactly does god help us? Refer to the above skit. I'm not thinking thats how it works...

You're right, they aren't perfect-- hey! Maybe that's why they call them theories!! Wow, all this time I've been thinking it was something else...

it takes faith to believe truths about God it only takes a brain with reasoning to know science truths.

AHAHAHAHAHA!! :lol: Only a brain with reasoning?? That is CLASSIC!!! Yeah, why don't we turn that around for a minute: religion does not require brains with reasoning, while science does not require blind faith. Don't know about you, but I am CONVERTED baby!

because God created science we need him to help us understand. u can seek his help by praying to him, although he may not give it to u, depending on his mood or will.

Oh so thats the problem then! All this time, its just been that he hasn't been 'in the mood' to answer my prayers! Wow! My hope is totally restored now!!

You know what I think? God doesn't have moods, because moods are imperfect and volatile and completely and utterly human characteristics. I'm not buying it that I didn't get a puppy for Christmas because god had a frickin headache.

 

[jonjohnrob11]

mr. sprinkles, God created logic and reasoning and is also human and used both. faith is a gift from God and he bestows it freely upon whomever he chooses. God chooses us we don't choose him as he was before us.

 

[jonjohnrob11]

wen018, faith is a gift from God and implies trust as we can't prove, scientificly or any other way certain religious truths that we hold to be true due to our gift of faith. in other words we can't see but we have other senses that reveal to us that God is our Creator and thus has many good things in store for us, especially after we die and have fought the good fight. God is all knowing all powerful and incapable of suffering, although he suffered a terrible death. if we grow closer to God he will give us many gifts which indirectly go back to Him. Love your neighbor as Christ loved us.

 

[Ceridwen018]

john,

faith is a gift from God and he bestows it freely upon whomever he chooses.

So...if we don't have faith...it's not really our fault? I mean, if god doesn't 'bestow' faith upon us...then how can we have it, and why is it a sin if we don't have it. God seems to be setting us up for failure here. I guess heaven's getting a little crowded, eh?

implies trust as we can't prove, scientificly or any other way certain religious truths that we hold to be true due to our gift of faith.

Blind trust is never a good thing. Don't get caught with your pants down, john. Question, search, never take anything at face value. If your faith and trust can survive that, then you know you've got something.

in other words we can't see but we have other senses that reveal to us that God is our Creator and thus has many good things in store for us, especially after we die and have fought the good fight.

You know that old adage that says "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"? I mean, it seems a little kooky to me that we should be so lucky as to be ruled by someone who's all about happiness and butterflies.

About this sense, though. Science knows of 5 senses. The fabled 6th sense is nothing but bunk outside of a Hollywood studio. Because a 6th sense in humans cannot be scientifically detected, the only way you could know about it, is if you think you are 'picking something up' or whatever this extra sense is supposed to do. Because this 'evidence' for a 6th sense is based upon your perception of reality rather than reality itself (which can only be judged by science), I think it's safe to say that it's theory should not be widely accepted, because it is based on one individual's opinion of what he is experienceing...assuming that he was indeed experienceing something, as opposed to just being...in a strange state of mind. :lol:

God is all knowing all powerful and incapable of suffering, although he suffered a terrible death.

Huhgh? (like Scooby Doo) How's that supposed to work?

if we grow closer to God he will give us many gifts which indirectly go back to Him

Woah there! Now I see what's going on! Indian giver!

Love your neighbor as Christ loved us.

Insert the word 'supposedly' between 'christ' and 'loved', and we'll have an accord!

 

[SpiritualSon]

Here is absolute truth: god is one in Person and in Essence,and that God is Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jehovah appeared unto Abraham in the plains of Mamre; he was sitting at the door of his tent, and when he lifted up his eyes and saw, behold, three men stood by him, and as soon as he saw them, he ran to meet them from the door of the tent, and bowed himself to the earth, and said, O Lord, if I have found grace in Thine eyes, pass not away, I pray, from Thy servant (18:1-3).

It was the Lord Jesus our Savior who appeared in His Divine Trinity, which the three angels represented.

The three men whom Abraham saw are three attributes which proceed from one God, Creation, Redemption and Regeneration, and that these are the attributes of one God, for one God is the Creator,Redeemer and Regenerator.

For the Lord said:
Abraham exulted that he should see My day, and he saw and rejoiced. Verily, verily I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (John 8:56, 58).

There is in the Lord the Divine Trinity; and the Divine Unity was represented in the Divine Trinity by the "three men," who were also called "angels" (Gen. 18:2; 19:1). But in His Divine Unity He was called "Lord" (18:3; 19:18); and also "Jehovah," very frequently (18:13, 14, 17, 19, 20, 22, 26, 33).

I shall make this topic like lightning and thunder,because lightning and thunder corresponds to arguments over what the Word is saying,and how God wants things done. Every word in the Bible is a correspondences from the natural world to the spiritual world.

When man reads the Word the angels understand the spiritual side of the Word that corresponds to what the man in the natural world is reading out of the Bible. According to the angels the word Father mention by the Lord means His Divinity. It does not mean the first person,and than a second person after that. There is a first Person,but He is also the last Person.As Jehovah God said," I am the first and the last." When Jehovah God became Man under the name Jesus Christ, He said the thing in Revelation,"I am the first and the last."Amen

Harry

 

[SpiritualSon]

It is important to understand that future of the planet and humanity ripens from a causal or "karmic" chain of consequences that originate in human thought and action.

The near future is a tightly articulated field of probabilities whose outcomes can be altered in a major way only by extreme transformation in the present, while the far future can be radically changed by small transformations consistently applied--not unlike navigation on the high seas.

Human thought and action create the physical and noetic environments that produce chains of events and probable outcomes.

Human beings do not yet realize their continual influence upon natural events such as earth changes,climate,and weather.

Often an outcome that flows from a strong current depends upon a critical area of human thought and action. For example, according to Scripture, the prophet Jonah was forced against his will to prophesy doom to the city of Ninevah because the inhabitants were in great need of "repentance," or nacham, literally "submission" to the Higher Nature.

In other words, the culture of the city was devolutionary and immoral. But after he delivered his prophecy of doom, the people were deeply affected and made major reform efforts.

Consequently, the disasters Jonah had prophesied did not manifest. At the end of the Book of Jonah, the prophet complains to God that now he looks like a charlatan because doom did not befall the city to vindicate his prophecies. God replies that the response of the people averted disaster, and the prophet should rejoice.

If you wants good weather,love God and stop doing and thinking evil.

Harry