Adam and Eve, and the serpent

[Estro Felino]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, who are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

 

[Estro Felino]

Besides....the serpent with its shape and its seducing voice symbolizes something undoubtedly erotic.

then why did the writer of the Genesis choose, among all the animals of the world, a snake?

 

[te_lanus]

then why did the writer of the Genesis choose, among all the animals of the world, a snake?

Think it has to do with the snake being seen as a symbol of knowledge back then. (If I remember correctly) He "Gave" them knowledge

And (According to Wikipedia) "In some Abrahamic traditions, the serpent represents sexual desire. According to some interpretations of the Midrash, the serpent represents sexual passion"

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, which are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

An interesting interpretation, but one that isn't backed up by much. Could you give the exact verse which says the adulteress ate the fruit?

I don't doubt the verse exists, but I don't see why it should be connected back to the account in Genesis.

And snakes are often portrayed as wily or deceptive creatures, cunning with a venomous and deadly bite. That's good enough reason to me. A literalist might also say the writer chose a snake, simply because it was a snake.

 

[Storm]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, which are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

"Allegorical system?"

While I can only applaud the rejection of Literalism, Scripture is no mere allegory, either. There are recurring themes, sure, but to claim that there's a system of code in which eating fruit only and always means sex is vastly oversimplified.

Scripture is far richer than that.
Biblical Literalism: Constricting the Cosmic Dance

 

[viole]

Besides....the serpent with its shape and its seducing voice symbolizes something undoubtedly erotic.

then why did the writer of the Genesis choose, among all the animals of the world, a snake?

Unknown (talking) bananas in the middle east at that time, I presume.

Ciao

- viole

 

[nazz]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, which are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

Not according to the Bible:

Gen 1:28
Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

 

[Robert.Evans]

As you know, I am Pelagian,

I did not know that.

so I deny the existence of the original sin.

I did not know that either.

I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, who are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

The real Adam and Chavvah are within the higher-consciousness of God, the logos or nous. There would have been a man and woman though that the story was based on. But they were not the first man and woman, nor does it say that they were.

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

Yes. No problem. But again, it is within higher-consciousness that this really speaks of. The fact that it also refers to a man and woman on earth in a particular land (as does the flood) means nothing really. It is always the higher understanding that is important. Therefore, all life is the Adam and teh Chavvah, the Masculine and Feminine. The separation was within the cellular level.

But it was with the dark side or lower side of the nature of the divine that Chavvah conceived, thta being evil (Cain) and then with the good side (Able) which came later. That division of left and right and masculine and feminine is many fold in a many world many reality system of existence.

Sceince allows us to understand these things to a far higher level than we could ever have done before. But don't forget, science is still the thinking of man, as is Scripture, and it is all of God.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Besides....the serpent with its shape and its seducing voice symbolizes something undoubtedly erotic.

then why did the writer of the Genesis choose, among all the animals of the world, a snake?

How do I put this??? In certain parts of Egypt, even now I believe, they can, with music, entice a snake to stand erect. Does that explain why they chose the snake? It has two forms.

 

[metis]

In early Jewish and even other Middle Eastern traditions, the serpent was viewed as being intelligent but also possibly sneaky. Therefore, I doubt it has any sexual innuendo, but who knows how it first started.

BTW, it's not absolutely clear that it was a snake as some other reptiles also crawl on their belly, or at least near it.

 

[Storm]

In early Jewish and even other Middle Eastern traditions, the serpent was viewed as being intelligent but also possibly sneaky. Therefore, I doubt it has any sexual innuendo, but who knows how it first started.

This actually fits the earlier point well. Many ME paganisms held the serpent to embody the Goddess' wisdom, but the kind that's worthless unless you find it on your own, so serpents and serpent cults posed riddles. Not so much sneaky as Socratic, but a symbolic, associative way instead of linear rationality.

Between that and the constant struggle to maintain strict monotheism, it's no surprise that the ancient Hebrew priests who wrote and preserved the narrative would adopt that symbol as the arguably deceptive vehicle of temptation to the fruit of knowledge leading to the loss of Eden.

BTW, it's not absolutely clear that it was a snake as some other reptiles also crawl on their belly, or at least near it.

LOL, I'll take your word for it, presuming your Hebrew is better than mine.

Still, I think it's a good theory.

 

[Faybull]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, who are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

Are you saying that a Pelagian doesnt know that Adam was chosen from mankind that had just been scatteref?

 

[Pegg]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, who are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

if you dont believe in Adam and Eve as literal people, how can the fall be about to fictional characters having sexual relations?

 

[Harikrish]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, who are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

Eating the fruit could just as easily mean "oral sex". God wanted Adam and Eve to breed but because they chose to have oral sex instead he cursed them so breeding would always be painful. But he made sure when Jesus was born it was not painful. God managed that without penetration or prolonged pregnancy. Odd that Mary went back to the traditional missionary position with Joseph and had several children after Jesus. No pain no gain!!!

 

[red44243]

I know if I put my children in a room full of toys and told them that they could play with any toy in the room, except for one, and it could be the worst toy in the room, then left them alone and watched them through a two sided mirror, with in ten minutes they would play with the forbidden toy.
I, also, am pretty sure that God is several, several, .......etc times smarter than I am.So to believe that Adam and Eve or the serpent did anything that God didn't intend is the same as calling God stupid!! As a matter of fact I believe that Adam and Eve should be given credit that God had to send the serpent to tempt them in order for them to take the bait.
The reason I feel I can say that God sent the serpent is due to the book of Job. In the book of Job Satan is still meeting with God and doing God's will (he hasn't fallen yet) and I am also pretty sure that that was after the Garden of Eden thing. I don't know when Satan fell but I am pretty sure it was after the book of Job.

 

[sincerly]

As you know, I am Pelagian, so I deny the existence of the original sin. I even deny the existence of Adam and Eve, who are fictional characters. We humans are the result of evolution, as scientists say (thank God there is science)

Hay, Believe what you will, but the Biblical account was written for our admonition and learning. It declares that that Disobedience is sin. It was the original sin and began with the GOD created pair of human beings who GOD(you thanked) created--not just "evolved" from an explosion of nothing.

"Fictional characters"??---then you and I (and all else) are "fictional".
Are you just my imagination? Or am I just your imagination?.
I assure you that all I see is real---has substance/composed of matter.

But, if we analyze the tale of Adam and Eve's fall, we find out something interesting. The Bible says: Eve ate the fruit and then she gave it to Adam, who ate it too. In the Biblical allegorical system, "eating the fruit" means "to have sex"- There is a passage in which the Bible says that the adulteress ate the fruit.

so...let's be honest: the mankind's fall is about sex. God didn't want Adam and Eve to breed; that's why He punished them and said to Eve: you will suffer labor pains.

Mankind was made "male and female" for the purpose of reproduction-- replenishing the earth. (Adulteress/adulterer are contrary to GOD'S laws for righteous actions/relationships.)

So to be honest: The fall of mankind was because of disobedience.
Adam did not "know"/have sex with Eve until after they disobeyed GOD in listening to the lies of the serpent.

 

[Nietzsche]

How do I put this??? In certain parts of Egypt, even now I believe, they can, with music, entice a snake to stand erect. Does that explain why they chose the snake? It has two forms.

Snakes don't have external ears, and they can't hear sounds that aren't transmitted through the ground. Their 'inner ear' within their heads is what picks up those vibrations. What's happening when someone is 'charming' a snake is that it becomes focused on the playing of the flute. It reminds it, IIRC, of the mating ritual and so it plays along.

 

[sincerly]

I know if I put my children in a room full of toys and told them that they could play with any toy in the room, except for one, and it could be the worst toy in the room, then left them alone and watched them through a two sided mirror, with in ten minutes they would play with the forbidden toy.

Red, what you are not taking in consideration is Adam and Eve were NOT created as illiterate children. They were created with knowledge and understanding. Yes, they understood what GOD had said and agreed that it was true. And Yes, That adversary(Satan) wasn't sent, but allowed to tempt them to disobey as he had done. (Job/Satan)

Were your children taught right from wrong actions--from infancy?

I, also, am pretty sure that God is several, several, .......etc times smarter than I am.So to believe that Adam and Eve or the serpent did anything that God didn't intend is the same as calling God stupid!! As a matter of fact I believe that Adam and Eve should be given credit that God had to send the serpent to tempt them in order for them to take the bait.

Yes, All are tested to see where one's "freedom of choice" resides. In pleasing the Creator GOD or self. It was in the in the "lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" that Satan/Lucifer fell and by which Adam and Eve followed his lead in the passing along that propensity to their progeny.
We see the results of man's inhumanity to man today. However, it was manifested with the first born against his brother and defiance against GOD.

The reason I feel I can say that God sent the serpent is due to the book of Job. In the book of Job Satan is still meeting with God and doing God's will (he hasn't fallen yet) and I am also pretty sure that that was after the Garden of Eden thing. I don't know when Satan fell but I am pretty sure it was after the book of Job.

Adam and Eve had already sinned and several thousand years had passed before Job and "friends" arrived in the pages of the scriptures.

 

[BSM1]

Besides....the serpent with its shape and its seducing voice symbolizes something undoubtedly erotic.

then why did the writer of the Genesis choose, among all the animals of the world, a snake?

Smaller target for the retributional lightning.

 

[pearl]

It's curious how nobody focused on the significance and symbolism of the serpent.


The symbolism of the serpent is found in the context of the Babylonian exile. The image of the serpent is taken from the Eastern fertility cults. These fertility religions were extreme temptations for Israel for centuries, the temptation was to forget the Covenant and join the religion of the time, to succumb to the seductive elements of these fertility religions. The snake tempted them to abandon the distant God, with so many restrictions on them. To take the plunge into the current of life, into the delirium and its ecstasy, partake of life and its immorality. As with all biblical myth, it is has its roots in a lived experience.

The serpent is cunning, it does not deny God, but places doubt and mistrust.