Adam and Eve, and the serpent

[sincerly]

It's curious how nobody focused on the significance and symbolism of the serpent.

The symbolism of the serpent is found in the context of the Babylonian exile. The image of the serpent is taken from the Eastern fertility cults. These fertility religions were extreme temptations for Israel for centuries, the temptation was to forget the Covenant and join the religion of the time, to succumb to the seductive elements of these fertility religions. The snake tempted them to abandon the distant God, with so many restrictions on them. To take the plunge into the current of life, into the delirium and its ecstasy, partake of life and its immorality. As with all biblical myth, it is has its roots in a lived experience.

The serpent is cunning, it does not deny God, but places doubt and mistrust.

pcarl, The religion of the Bible was supplanted by the people who desired to have the erotic rather than the uplifting principles which gave a right relationship to GOD and Mankind.
That was seen in the "only evil imaginations" of the people at the time of Noah.
Yes, the people after settling into the promised land had a off and on relationship with those "nations" who practiced many "abominable things" not allowed by GOD. Each time, they suffered greatly---never seemingly to learn the correct lesson. (But that is the history of mankind.)
The myth is the false light claimed for itself being correct.

 

[sojourner]

The serpent is a symbol for wisdom in the mythos from which the creation myth is derived.

 

[pearl]

I simply gave the myth the context from which it came. Compare with the older Babylonian creation account of Enuma Elish.
The Creation account we find 'in the beginning' while based on ancient traditions, did not assume its present form until the time
of the Babylonian exile. Israel had lost its land and its temple.

Ever wonder why in the Creation myth the number of days of creation was set at six with resting on the seventh? The root of the myth is the rhythm of the lived experience of the author. They labor six days and worship and rest on the seventh. Creation is ordered to the Sabbath.

 

[Harikrish]

The story of the original sin does not stand up to scrutiny. God told Adam he would die immediately if he ate the fruit. He lived on for 900 more years and produced many children.
God told Adam before Eve was created that he was not to eat of the of the knowledge of good and evil. (Gen. 2:17) Further God warned that in the day he did eat fruit of that tree man would surely die.

• 
  
  

 

[pearl]

The serpent is a symbol for wisdom in the mythos from which the creation myth is derived.

"The woman saw that the tree was good for food, and a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise"
The wisdom that rules the world and of the fertility through which human beings plunge into the divine current of life, and momentarily they experience its divine power. The serpent planted the seed of doubt. Why should man have to live with limitations
imposed by the covenant? Personified in Adam it is Israel's temptation, and that of every age, that is the intent of Scripture. The history of sin begins with Adam. It is relational, we are who we are because we are related. Sin is loss of relationship. Sin always touches another, alters the world we all enter. Sin begets sin, as sin increases, life decreases. 'Original sin' is a theological term which is grossly misunderstood.

 

[sojourner]

"The woman saw that the tree was good for food, and a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise"
The wisdom that rules the world and of the fertility through which human beings plunge into the divine current of life, and momentarily they experience its divine power. The serpent planted the seed of doubt. Why should man have to live with limitations
imposed by the covenant? Personified in Adam it is Israel's temptation, and that of every age, that is the intent of Scripture. The history of sin begins with Adam. It is relational, we are who we are because we are related. Sin is loss of relationship. Sin always touches another, alters the world we all enter. Sin begets sin, as sin increases, life decreases. 'Original sin' is a theological term which is grossly misunderstood.

Ok. That's a theological argument, and an apologetic one. I'm simply stating what the symbology of the serpent is from a purely exegetical perspective. Because, when deriving theology from the texts and then attempting to defend interpretations, you have to begin with an exegetical basis.

 

[Estro Felino]

The serpent is a symbol for wisdom in the mythos from which the creation myth is derived.

sorry...but I don't think it is. it's like saying that the male organ is symbol of wisdom. Sounds like phallocentrism to me

 

[sojourner]

sorry...but I don't think it is. it's like saying that the male organ is symbol of wisdom. Sounds like phallocentrism to me

Sorry... you're mistaken. The intertwined serpents on the Caduceus symbolizes Wisdom. The serpent as Wisdom is an ancient concept.

 

[pearl]

The concept of original sin is a theological concept. As far as the context of the Creation myth is concerned, it is through the findings of critical exegeses, especially the historical critical method; what the snake meant to the author. Otherwise we place what the symbol is back in the mind of the original author. Apologetics have a different agenda, not to question but to defend.

 

[sojourner]

The concept of original sin is a theological concept. As far as the context of the Creation myth is concerned, it is through the findings of critical exegeses, especially the historical critical method; what the snake meant to the author. Otherwise we place what the symbol is back in the mind of the original author. Apologetics have a different agenda, not to question but to defend.

The parallel between Genesis two and earlier Sumerian myth is too remarkable to be dismissed. I think we have to understand that when the myth was incorporated into early Hebraic story, the Sumerian symbolism was part of the baggage. Therefore, if we want to unpack the theology of the story, we have to consider the symbolism inherent in the story, and how it informs that theology.

 

[pearl]

The parallel between Genesis two and earlier Sumerian myth is too remarkable to be dismissed. I think we have to understand that when the myth was incorporated into early Hebraic story, the Sumerian symbolism was part of the baggage. Therefore, if we want to unpack the theology of the story, we have to consider the symbolism inherent in the story, and how it informs that theology.

For a proper understanding it cannot be dismissed. And the author certainly borrowed from the surrounding religion and culture
from which he shaped his own creation account. In a previous post someone made the connection between the Gen account and
original sin. The theological concept of original sin is from the Christian interpretation of Gen. I don't think that was in the mind or theology of the author of Deuteronomy in the final editing of the Pentateuch.

 

[sincerly]

I simply gave the myth the context from which it came. Compare with the older Babylonian creation account of Enuma Elish.
The Creation account we find 'in the beginning' while based on ancient traditions, did not assume its present form until the time
of the Babylonian exile. Israel had lost its land and its temple.

Ever wonder why in the Creation myth the number of days of creation was set at six with resting on the seventh? The root of the myth is the rhythm of the lived experience of the author. They labor six days and worship and rest on the seventh. Creation is ordered to the Sabbath.

"The older creation"?? If that's what you choose to believe. I'll stick with the Biblical Genesis narrative. The Babylonian account would not take place for another approx.1800 years after people were scattered upon the earth.
Those peoples had had a historical knowledge of the original events and of the Creator GOD that produced it all.
Like today, people had rather not accept the true facts and "lean to man's understanding."

The "Author"/ The One who inspired the Prophets to record the events, DID the Creating and set aside that Seventh Day Sabbath for "Worship".

 

[sojourner]

"The older creation"?? If that's what you choose to believe. I'll stick with the Biblical Genesis narrative. The Babylonian account would not take place for another approx.1800 years after people were scattered upon the earth.
Those peoples had had a historical knowledge of the original events and of the Creator GOD that produced it all.
Like today, people had rather not accept the true facts and "lean to man's understanding."

The "Author"/ The One who inspired the Prophets to record the events, DID the Creating and set aside that Seventh Day Sabbath for "Worship".

Problem here is that the Enuma Elish precedes Genesis by many, many years. Genesis is extrapolated from it.

 

[sincerly]

The story of the original sin does not stand up to scrutiny. God told Adam he would die immediately if he ate the fruit. He lived on for 900 more years and produced many children.
God told Adam before Eve was created that he was not to eat of the of the knowledge of good and evil. (Gen. 2:17) Further God warned that in the day he did eat fruit of that tree man would surely die.

HK, The Context of the Creation doesn't "stand-up" to your assertion. GOD'S meeting with and providing Adam and Eve with the death penalty---the substituted death penalty of the animal to clothe them with skin shows GOD did not plan that their death would be "immediately".
Yes. Adam and all of mankind have faced eventually the first death. Also, mankind will face the second death unless the rebirth described by Jesus Christ takes place.

Problem here is that the Enuma Elish precedes Genesis by many, many years. Genesis is extrapolated from it.

The "extrapolation" was by those who lived many, many, years after those people scattered from the tower of Babel(after the flood) to those
other parts of the world.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[sojourner]

You, of course, realize that the Babel story also comes after the Babylonian and Sumerian myths?

 

[sincerly]

For a proper understanding it cannot be dismissed. And the author certainly borrowed from the surrounding religion and culture
from which he shaped his own creation account. In a previous post someone made the connection between the Gen account and
original sin. The theological concept of original sin is from the Christian interpretation of Gen. I don't think that was in the mind or theology of the author of Deuteronomy in the final editing of the Pentateuch.

pcarl, you mean for a "proper understanding" of your belief. And what you "don't think" is what the Scriptures do say and mean.

 

[sincerly]

You, of course, realize that the Babel story also comes after the Babylonian and Sumerian myths?

Scripturally, they do not.

 

[sojourner]

Scripturally, they do not.

In reality, they do. The Babylonian/Sumerian myths are chronologically older than the biblical writings.

 

[sojourner]

pcarl, you mean for a "proper understanding" of your belief. And what you "don't think" is what the Scriptures do say and mean.

No, he means a proper understanding of the texts.

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
Scripturally, they do not.

In reality, they do. The Babylonian/Sumerian myths are chronologically older than the biblical writings.

In reality, and Scripturally, there isn't anything on this earth which is older than "In the beginning". And scripturally all of mankind spread out from the tower of Babel.