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Adam-death-ant-flower

Arlanbb

Active Member
If death in this world did not happen till the forbidden fruit was eaten, could Adam in his everyday walking around the Garden of Eden had walked on an ant and killed it? Also did none of the newly carnivorous animals eat another animial till Adam sinned?
What if Adam picked a flower to give to Eve before he sinned, would the flower die? I think there are interesting questions.
 

Roal

Member
This is why I tend to think of the book of Genesis as more metaphorical.

I was actually having this conversation with someone earlier this week.....about how bad it would be if nothing died.

Think about it..we would not be able to kill plants or animals because they would not be able to die. But then we would not be able to die from lack of food. Therefore we would be in an eternal state of starvation, among other anomalies that would result because of this.

If you think of it like that, Adam did us a kind of service. Life without the knowledge of good and evil would be miserable indeed. Duality creates stasis, and that is a beautiful thing.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
If death in this world did not happen till the forbidden fruit was eaten, could Adam in his everyday walking around the Garden of Eden had walked on an ant and killed it? Also did none of the newly carnivorous animals eat another animial till Adam sinned?
What if Adam picked a flower to give to Eve before he sinned, would the flower die? I think there are interesting questions.
The Jehovah Witnesses believe that this will happen when the meek inherit the earth.
 

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
Before Adam (metaphorical ancient man, not a literal person) sinned (i.e. became self-aware/ aware of morality, and his own mortality/'nakedness'), the original humans were not much different from animals. They lived in a metaphoric paradise, not a literal one. Their paradise was one of ignorance, being completely subsumed in the Pleroma of brute instinct. All they did was mate, eat, crap and sleep. IMO the real miracle is....what changed? Why did we suddenly become aware of ourselves and go "JEEZ, man, where's my fur?" :angel2:
 

deseretgov

Unofficial Ambassador
If death in this world did not happen till the forbidden fruit was eaten, could Adam in his everyday walking around the Garden of Eden had walked on an ant and killed it?

I don't think he would have stepped on an ant. I believe that in the garden there was perfect communication between all living things. The Ants would have known to stay away to avaoid getting trampled.

Also did none of the newly carnivorous animals eat another animial till Adam sinned?

I don't think any animals in the garden killed each other. All animals in the garden had a perfect body that woud not need food.

What if Adam picked a flower to give to Eve before he sinned, would the flower die?

I don't think it would die. If He gave it to her it would stay alive. If she threw it away and dropped it on the ground then it would take rook and grow into a new plant.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
DESERETGON ~ so you are suggesting that all the lions, leopards, dogs, cats, crocodiles, vultures DID NOT eat meat before sin entered the world and that when sin did enter the world then God had to recreate these animals so they were meat eaters and this happened after the 7th day of creation sometime? What about all the animals outside of the garden of eden?
 

deseretgov

Unofficial Ambassador
DESERETGON ~ so you are suggesting that all the lions, leopards, dogs, cats, crocodiles, vultures DID NOT eat meat before sin entered the world and that when sin did enter the world then God had to recreate these animals so they were meat eaters

No. What I'm saying is that they didn't eat anything. They didn't need to. Their bodies were perfect and immortal.

Speaking strickly of Adam. When Adam partook of the fruit it produced a chemical change in His body that changed it from a perfect form to an imperfect form.

How that related to the animals, I don't have enough information to formulate a theory.

These imperfect bodies required food and those animals designed to be carnivorous ate meat and those designed to be herbivorous ate plants.

and this happened after the 7th day of creation sometime?

I don't believe that "days" of creation are literal days, nor do i believe they were periods of 1000 years. I also don't believe that they a linear. I believe they are undefined periods of time to describe the various phases of Earth's creation.

What about all the animals outside of the garden of eden?

I don't have enough information to formulate a theory.
 

Roal

Member
deseretgov said:
No. What I'm saying is that they didn't eat anything. They didn't need to. Their bodies were perfect and immortal.

Then why did God give the possibility of eating. "you can eat this but you can't eat that. If they did not need to eat then there would be no desire to eat, therefore no temptation to eat the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

arlanbb said:
DESERETGON ~ so you are suggesting that all the lions, leopards, dogs, cats, crocodiles, vultures DID NOT eat meat before sin entered the world and that when sin did enter the world then God had to recreate these animals so they were meat eaters

This brings up another good point. What about animals where the habitat of the garden of eden was not suitable to life? I understand that in a perfect environment such as that, animals would not be bound to physical limitations, but what of deep sea animals, cold-climate organisms, and such? Were they created after original sin so were their roles changed afterwards? Or did they exist outside of the Garden of Eden and if so, were they not of a "perfect" nature as were those within?
 

Heneni

Miss Independent
If death in this world did not happen till the forbidden fruit was eaten, could Adam in his everyday walking around the Garden of Eden had walked on an ant and killed it? Also did none of the newly carnivorous animals eat another animial till Adam sinned?
What if Adam picked a flower to give to Eve before he sinned, would the flower die? I think there are interesting questions.


The death that genesis talks about is a spiritual death, a seperation from god. If a body is in a glorified state, it does not need food to survive. God does not need breakfast or lunch or dinner to continue being. As i understand it food was for enjoyment not survival. The lion did not have to kill to survive. It wouldnt have to kill for enjoyment either. So it didnt kill. The life force of god kept all animals alive. Adam would not have stepped on an ant because he would have stopped before stepping on it. There was no accidental deaths nor intentional deaths.

But that changed. Now the lion has to kill to survive, everything in the circle of life has to eat that below it in the food chain to survive. Now instead of finding their life in god, the creatures and plants on this earth survive by eating and taking nourishment from itself. The creatures and plants survive by feeding of each other, instead of 'eating' from god. And so the earth, which would have remained young for ever, now grows old and worn out. The earth is now subject to decay. Not only do individual plants and animals decay when they die, but the earth does as well. The earth started to grow old when adam and eve sinned and since then the earth has been in decline. It is dying, though it looks very much alive. It is beautiful true, spectacularly beautiful, but nothing like it was before. Eventually when a planet has died it looks something like mars.

We humans are in bodies, called 'bodies of death'. We can try as hard as we like, it gets old. And so does the earth. At some point, we put our bodies into the ground, like a worn out garment we put this body down, and take up a new garment (re-incarnation). But there will come a day when we will put on enternal garments, clothes (bodies) that are not eaten by moths or wear out or decay. In the same way, this earth is on a journey back to the garden. To once again put on a garment that cannot decay and the new earth, will stay young forever.
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I don't think he would have stepped on an ant. I believe that in the garden there was perfect communication between all living things. The Ants would have known to stay away to avaoid getting trampled.



I don't think any animals in the garden killed each other. All animals in the garden had a perfect body that woud not need food.



I don't think it would die. If He gave it to her it would stay alive. If she threw it away and dropped it on the ground then it would take rook and grow into a new plant.
Very imaginative.
 

Heartfelt

Member
I don't think it came down to all that...Adam was given dominion over all life on earth prior to the original sin and we still have dominion over all life. death of an insect really had nothing consequencial to do with original sin...everything on this earth is dust...Humans were meant to comune with God...there is nothing that says flowers were to live forever, trees and seed bearing things were always meant to regenerate and bring forth more life.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
HENENI ~ you state "If a body is in a glorified state, it does not need food to survive". In Gen 2 God put in the garden every tree "good for food" for them to eat. Our entire bodly make up was created to live by eating food just like all the other animals. on earth. I find no scripture to back up your "glorified state" concept.
 

deseretgov

Unofficial Ambassador
Then why did God give the possibility of eating. "you can eat this but you can't eat that. If they did not need to eat then there would be no desire to eat, therefore no temptation to eat the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The tempation wasn't in the deliciousness of the fruit. The tempation came when Satan convinced Eve that she needed knowledge of good and evil. The fruit was what mad that knowledge possible.

[quote=fantôme profane]Very imaginative.[/quote]

Yep there's very little doctrine in that. It's just my own ideas.
 
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