Adam, Eve and the Apple

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is nothing in scripture that would lead a Christian to interpret the story as allegorical.

No... discernment and, IMO, common sense is brought to the story by the reader.

I believe that the tale of the Garden of Eden is effectively a "just-so story" to explain how a supposedly perfect God could create a world that is obviously imperfect, as can be seen by anyone who cares to look.

Not all opinions are created equal, and some border on irresponsible. The appeal to allegory is cheap, convenient, and evinces a self-serving ignorance of the pervasiveness of superstition in the ancient world. It also exhibits a remarkably arrogant thoughtlessness as it casually dismisses such writings as the Talmud.

Something being allegory doesn't dismiss anything. Allegory can be a useful and powerful teaching tool. Why would we assume that ancient people did not use allegory when it would have been a good method to get their point across?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Jesus Jay, you are using a sledge hammer on a problem that requires love and patience.

that's his way. He seems to fail to realize that he is a lousy ambassador for his beliefs.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No... discernment and, IMO, common sense is brought to the story by the reader.

I believe that the tale of the Garden of Eden is effectively a "just-so story" to explain how a supposedly perfect God could create a world that is obviously imperfect, as can be seen by anyone who cares to look.

The Bible is clear when it wants a story to be interpreted as allogorical, it says so.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that the tale of the Garden of Eden is effectively a "just-so story" to explain how a supposedly perfect God could create a world that is obviously imperfect, as can be seen by anyone who cares to look.

Quite right. This story is an attempt to explain why things are the way they are. Nothing more.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Bible is clear when it wants a story to be interpreted as allogorical, it says so.

The Bible is a book; it wants nothing. If you think that God directs you to interpret certain passages as allegory and others as not, that's fine, but to decide that nothing in the Bible is allegory unless it's accompanied by a "THIS IS ALLEGORY" declaration requires specific assumptions and interpretations on your part.

 

[sojourner]

The Bible is clear when it wants a story to be interpreted as allogorical, it says so.

Not always...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The Bible is a book; it wants nothing. If you think that God directs you to interpret certain passages as allegory and others as not, that's fine, but to decide that nothing in the Bible is allegory unless it's accompanied by a "THIS IS ALLEGORY" declaration requires specific assumptions and interpretations on your part.

Utter nonsense.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Not always...

Perhaps you could give an example that isn't tainted by your own peculiar slant?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Utter nonsense.

Okay then: how does one tell when a story in the Bible is meant to be taken allegorically?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Okay then: how does one tell when a story in the Bible is meant to be taken allegorically?

The bible states it as so.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Where in the scriptures do you find this rule?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Where in the scriptures do you find this rule?

If it's a parable the Bible says it's a parable. If it's a vision the bible says it's a vision. while it does'nt speak of allegories neither does it hint that things are not supossed to be taken litterally unless specifically stated. Otherwise you can say whatever you want about meanings which I think God would frown upon.

 

[gnostic]

My God, Creator of all things forgive me for blaming Adam for Eatin the Apple when I have recently found out that it was EVE.

What make you think the forbidden fruit is an apple?

It doesn't say apple. The closest thing that what type of fruit is a fig. It doesn't mention any fig too, so to be more precise, they covered their nakedness with fig-leaves.

Sorry for go off-topic....again.

 

[Bathsheba]

If it's a parable the Bible says it's a parable. If it's a vision the bible says it's a vision. while it does'nt speak of allegories neither does it hint that things are not supossed to be taken litterally unless specifically stated. Otherwise you can say whatever you want about meanings which I think God would frown upon.

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

 

[blackout]

What make you think the forbidden fruit is an apple?

It doesn't say apple. The closest thing that what type of fruit is a fig. It doesn't mention any fig too, so to be more precise, they covered their nakedness with fig-leaves.

Sorry for go off-topic....again.

How much more allegorcal can you get than "fruit"?
Or the "fruit of the tree" (like the "fruit of a vine")
I mean it just screams allegory!
And "covering your nakedness".
We even have modern day metaphors
derived from the allegory of the "fig leaf" story.
Metaphorical use

The expression fig leaf has a pejorative metaphorical sense meaning a cover for any thing or behaviour that might be considered shameful, with the implication that the cover is only a token gesture and the truth is obvious to all who choose to see it.

In the context of negotiation, an offer might be characterized as a "fig leaf" if that offer is actually a ploy to conceal a sinister plan. The phrase fig leaf can be confused with olive branch ("to extend an olive branch"), which is a peace offering.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The apple thing always makes me laugh.
("american pie" is apple too then. right? )
I mean where did the pejorative apple come from anyway?
(but the imaginations of men).
There are bad apples... delicious apples...
delicious apples that are not actually so delicious...
poison apples... sour apples.
umm no those would be grapes.
Then of course there's...
the BIG Apple.... Macantosh Apple PC...
apple for teacher... and grandma's apple pie.
ahhhhh.... what doth it all mean?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Forget about forgiving Eve. Let us all praise her for having the courage to defy the tyrannical Yahweh.

Yes! I strongly agree with this point.

 

[gnostic]

She should be considered a heroine, since she brought wisdom and consciousness of what is right and wrong. I must say that her punishment and all her kind were unjust.

 

[sojourner]

Perhaps you could give an example that isn't tainted by your own peculiar slant?

The creation story, for starters.
Come on...a talking snake? The snake is an ancient allegorical figure for wisdom. (That's why the medical profession uses them in the Caduceus).

You want to know why we can't find Eden? It's everywhere. The point of origin of the four rivers described in Genesis actually points to the corners of the known world at the time.

Did you ever read a fairy tale? They're not factual. But they don't start out with a disclaimer -- "Warning: The content you are about to read is fictitious and should not be taken literally." No! They begin, "Once upon a time..." Much like the Creation story: "When God began to create..."

I'd be real interested to see one allegorical story in the Bible that begins with such a disclaimer as you mention.

 

[sojourner]

The bible states it as so.

Round and round we go. Give us an example, please.

 

[sojourner]

If it's a parable the Bible says it's a parable. If it's a vision the bible says it's a vision. while it does'nt speak of allegories neither does it hint that things are not supossed to be taken litterally unless specifically stated. Otherwise you can say whatever you want about meanings which I think God would frown upon.

Perhaps you could give an example that isn't tainted by your own peculiar slant?

Perhaps you could follow your own advice?

Parables are completely different animals, written in a different language from the creation allegory, by different people with different agendas, living in different cultures and times. The writings that contain the parables have a different goal in mind than the writings that contain the creation allegory.

You said that if it's an allegory, then the Bible states that it's an allegory. But here you admit that "while it doesn't speak of allegories..." Which is it? While Bible doesn't "hint that things are not supposed to be taken literally," neither does it assume that they are to be taken literally. The writers and intended audience had certain expectations that we don't necessarily have. I don't think they had a particular problem with allegory, as you appear to have.