Adam, the son of God?

[OneTwo]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

 

[Super Universe]

Some Christians state that Jesus was the Son of God, not all. They do this because it makes them feel better about their religion, it's like saying "My prophet is better than your prophet because mine was actually God".

 

[OneTwo]

Why the need to feel better about your religion though?

 

[Super Universe]

Why the need to feel better about your religion though?

It's not just the need to feel better about their religion but the need to feel better about themselves.

People want to feel good about themselves, that they are smart, pretty, intelligent, and good. There's nothing wrong with that but humans too often reverse things, they think that in order for them to be good then other people have to be bad, wrong, or ugly.

This is the reason behind racism, intollerance of others, and hate.

 

[Sleeppy]

You could do a quick Google search.. Just put Jesus as Son of God or something similar. There will be sites that will have scriptures and explanations for you. Sorry, I'm being sort of lazy.

Jesus calls God, Father. Also, refer to the angel Gabriel notifying Mary of the 'overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.'

 

[arthra]

"But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this (?)"

It has to do with the Arian-Athanasian controversy. I recommend a recently published book:

"When Jesus became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein

 

[OneTwo]

It has to do with the Arian-Athanasian controversy. I recommend a recently published book:

"When Jesus became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein

Could you give a brief outline on what the book states in regarding to this topic? I will seek this book in the near future, I appreciate the recommendation.

It's not just the need to feel better about their religion but the need to feel better about themselves.

Surely if you follow the right religion then you would be at peace with it, and there would be no need to feel better about themselves. Does this mean that the Christians do or do not actually believe that Jesus (pbuh) was the begotten Son of God?

Jesus calls God, Father.

I have no problem in Jesus (pbuh) saying that as we are all 'children of God', the issue arises when it is believed that Jesus is the begotten Son of God.

 

[Sleeppy]

I found this pretty quickly.. It does a good job of explaining the meaning of 'begotten' in its original form.

What does it mean that Jesus is God's only begotten son?

 

[OneTwo]

I have no doubt that in the original form, that Jesus (pbuh) was said NOT to be the begotten son, however when I use the term 'begotten' now, I'm using it in the context of how people use that word today. As what I am saying is that, some Christians do believe that Jesus (pbuh) was actually the Son of God; and God was the actual Father of Jesus (pbuh).

 

[Sleeppy]

I have no doubt that in the original form, that Jesus (pbuh) was said NOT to be the begotten son, however when I use the term 'begotten' now, I'm using it in the context of how people use that word today. As what I am saying is that, some Christians do believe that Jesus (pbuh) was actually the Son of God; and God was the actual Father of Jesus (pbuh).

Could you elaborate? Also, what makes a son, a son?

 

[F0uad]

Physical son.. there are not allot of people believing that any-more.. they ´´evolved´´ there religion they think its a Title now because it made no sense.

Ps: The verse ´´only begotten son´´ is removed in the newer bibles because it was a fabrication.

 

[hahajebus]

I have read both the Bible and the Qur'an, which amazingly have a lot of similaraties.

However, the main difference is the nature and role of Jesus (pbuh)

The Muslims believe that he was a blessed prophet chosen by God to give his message to the people.

But, the Christians state that he was the Son of God, God himself and the Holy Spirit (Holy Trinity)

Why do Christians believe this, when not once in the Bible is the 'The Holy Trinity' mentioned, and not once does Jesus (pbuh) say that he is the begotten son of God, or God etc.

The only reason I can think, is that because Jesus (pbuh) was born from a virgin mother, therefore having no father, that somehow he is the Son of God? I'm not sure what is trying to be insinuated with Mary and God in that respect.

But if Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God, because he had no father than surely Adam (pbuh) was a Greater Son of God, as he had no mother or father..

Adam was also the son of god.. in great respect we all are his children. But when adam and eve ate of the tree, those who don't know the story well think they died.

But reading on, the didn't physically die they spiritually died. The both once had a relationship with god, fully of trust but this was then broken when they went through with the deed.

A broken relationship. No holy spirt/holy trinity.

Each child born after that born dead, spiritually. no relationship with god, using sacrifices and other things to try and restore that.

Until jesus was born, in rightful relationship with god. not born of adam but of god. not born dead spiritually but born having the connection adam once had lost.
The true son of god because of his spiritual relationship with god.

 

[Road Warrior]

Some Christians state that Jesus was the Son of God, not all. They do this because it makes them feel better about their religion, it's like saying "My prophet is better than your prophet because mine was actually God".

Agreed. The concept of the Trinity evolved and was sanctioned centuries after the Crucifixion.

I'm currently listening to a 22 hour audio course on "The Early Middle Ages" where it covers the many variations in Christianity and how it took the Emperor of Rome to enforce a singular belief of how Christianity should be practiced. All others were branded heretics and punished accordingly.

In short, the current concept is that Christ always existed along with God. A co-God of sorts. Other beliefs are that God created Christ along with everything else.

Arianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arianism is the theological teaching attributed to Arius (ca. AD 250–336), a Christian presbyter in Alexandria, Egypt, concerning the relationship of the persons of the Trinity ('God the Father', 'God the Son', and 'God the Holy Spirit') and the precise nature of the Son of God as being a subordinate entity to God the Father. Deemed a heretic by the First Council of Nicaea of 325, Arius was later exonerated in 335 at the First Synod of Tyre,[1] and then, after his death, pronounced a heretic again at the First Council of Constantinople of 381.[2] The Roman Emperors Constantius II (337–361) and Valens (364–378) were Arians or Semi-Arians.

The Arian concept of Christ is that the Son of God did not always exist, but was created by—and is therefore distinct from—God the Father. This belief is grounded in the Gospel of John passage “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (verse 14:28)[3]

 

[OneTwo]

Could you elaborate? Also, what makes a son, a son?

My point is, why do the Christians believe Jesus (pbuh) to be the Son of God, as in begotten Son of God. I use the word begotten in the context we use today, as you are the begotten son of your mother and father.

I stated earlier that I have no issue whatsoever with anyone saying Jesus (pbuh) was the son of God as we are all of children of God, however the issue arises when people say Jesus (pbuh) was the begotten Son of God, as he had no human father. Therefore Adam (pbuh) would be a greater Son of God, as he had neither a mother or father. I hope that makes it clearer.

Another separate point I wanted to mention, is if Jesus (pbuh) was crucified and he died for our sins, then surely everyone who has lived after him can sin as much as they want as he has 'died for all of our sins'. I don't see the point in us being created then? Just a point I wanted some insight into.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... when I use the term 'begotten' now, I'm using it in the context of how people use that word today.

You've got to be kidding.

 

[Sleeppy]

My point is, why do the Christians believe Jesus (pbuh) to be the Son of God, as in begotten Son of God. I use the word begotten in the context we use today, as you are the begotten son of your mother and father.

He had a Spirit that was begotten of the Holy Spirit. Other Christians may tell you something different. I know this, because He had a separate will from the Father, as do we - and He was limited in power, as are we. 'Only begotten' makes sense only in the other sense of the word, begotten. Elijah, for instance, had a spirit begotten of the Holy Spirit. The site rightly mentions Hebrews 11:17, as a parallel.

I stated earlier that I have no issue whatsoever with anyone saying Jesus (pbuh) was the son of God as we are all of children of God, however the issue arises when people say Jesus (pbuh) was the begotten Son of God, as he had no human father. Therefore Adam (pbuh) would be a greater Son of God, as he had neither a mother or father. I hope that makes it clearer.

I'm not sure. It says Mary and Joseph hadn't been with each other. But, God is able to raise up a child to both of them. Adam being a greater son of God doesn't make sense, and you should leave that idea alone. We are all physically sons of Adam. We are all physically Adam. And into Adam was breathed God's breath of life. We are all sons of God, in any sense.

Another separate point I wanted to mention, is if Jesus (pbuh) was crucified and he died for our sins, then surely everyone who has lived after him can sin as much as they want as he has 'died for all of our sins'. I don't see the point in us being created then? Just a point I wanted some insight into.

Where does sin come from? Have you ever seen anything in this Earth that is physically evil, no matter when or where it is?

 

[OneTwo]

Where does sin come from? Have you ever seen anything in this Earth that is physically evil, no matter when or where it is?

When I say sin, I thought it was clear that I was talking about mankind's decisions and acts. A sin for example would be an unlawful killing of a human being.

Adam being a greater son of God doesn't make sense

That is my point.

The bible states that God gave his only Son to this planet..etc. My issue is if people know that we are all children of God, then why is God referring to Jesus (pbuh) as his ONLY son?

Jesus (pbuh) being the son of God makes as much sense as Adam (pbuh) being the son of God.

When I stated that Adam (pbuh) being a greater Son of God, I said this because the Christians believe Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God as he had no human father. Yet Adam (pbuh) had no father or mother, therefore he is greater a Son of God, as he is more 'Godlike' than any of us including Jesus, because Adam (pbuh) wasn't born from a human mother. Yet Jesus (pbuh) was, and yet he is believed to be so divine and 'the Son of God'.

 

[Sleeppy]

When I say sin, I thought it was clear that I was talking about mankind's decisions and acts. A sin for example would be an unlawful killing of a human being.

I'm asking you this.. Do you know why we sin?

That is my point.

The bible states that God gave his only Son to this planet..etc. My issue is if people know that we are all children of God, then why is God referring to Jesus (pbuh) as his ONLY son?

Jesus (pbuh) being the son of God makes as much sense as Adam (pbuh) being the son of God.

Also, Jesus was first before any other creation. He created everything else. Again, other Christians may disagree with me. Colossians 1:15

So what does monogenes mean? According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BAGD, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions. The first definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." This is the meaning attached to its use in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham's "only begotten son." Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant.

When I stated that Adam (pbuh) being a greater Son of God, I said this because the Christians believe Jesus (pbuh) was the Son of God as he had no human father. Yet Adam (pbuh) had no father or mother, therefore he is greater a Son of God, as he is more 'Godlike' than any of us including Jesus, because Adam (pbuh) wasn't born from a human mother. Yet Jesus (pbuh) was, and yet he is believed to be so divine and 'the Son of God'.

We also believe that He preceded and is the Creator of every other creature.