Addiction is not a disease.

[PureX]

So genes are a disease.

No, but our genes can make us vulnerable to disease.

 

[PureX]

It's certainly true that genetics plays a role in addiction, but it's considered only a component.

Having a genome with a higher propensity to abuse alcohol or drugs does not necessarily doom a person who is at a higher genetic risk into a life of alcoholism or drug addiction. There are other factors that are at play. That's the difference and why addiction itself is not a disease.

How is 'disease' any different? Many diseases also have a genetic predisposition factor that does not always manifest in contracting the disease. Just as with an addiction. Many diseases also effect our thought and behavioral patterns, just as with addiction. So how exactly is addiction different from those other diseases?

 

[Cacotopia]

I agree that addiction is not a disease. While addictions cause physical changes, they are not willfully obtained like actual diseases. Aside from isolated cases of pregnant women doing drugs then having addicted babies, who would not be able to give themselves a fix anyways.

Addiction is obtained by allowing yourself to become dependent on a substance or activity do to complete lack of self restraint. Addicts are weak willed people that put themselves in the holes they are in.

Diseases indiscriminately infect people. They are not chosen.

 

[Cacotopia]

A person is prescribed 1 pill in the morning, and one at night. But instead they abused it and took two in the morning and 2 at night. Because it felt good. A week later they want to feel as good as they did the first week but they now need to take 6 a day instead of 4. 2 weeks later they need 8 to chase the feeling they had the 1st week.

The person in this scenario abused the medication in the first place because they were selfish, instead of taking as prescribed to remain a functional person managing pain, they screwed up by upping the dosage, consequences be dammed. And soon they will be at the stage of chemical dependency. Once they are an addict they can play victim to the disease of addiction. Pandering to this idea in my opinion absolves the addicted person of any guilt that they did this to themselves and that it is a disease and not their fault.

Sorry no it doesn't.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Here's the opening Salvo for the debate......

It would be nice if people stop referring to addictions as a disease, it's simply not the case, so stop calling it a disease.

Weither through drugs or the new recent "disease" of video game addiction (for which I also "suffer" from) is in fact a choice and habit gone chronic.

Drinking coffee and getting addicted to caffeine is not a disease. Honestly, if caffeine was ever made illegal I'd be pounding on the doors and crying and wailing just as much as any drug addict hooked on meth. But the bottom line is, it's simply not a disease.


Addiction is not a disease


Why Addiction Is Not a Disease: An Interview with Dr. Marc Lewis


https://nypost.com/2015/07/12/addic...were-treating-drug-and-alcohol-addicts-wrong/


For those that think it is a disease, how in the world can addiction be classified as a bona fide disease?

Addictions are no way similar whatsoever with diseases. Biologically or Mentally. You don't catch or inherit an addiction.

The word disease is more less a cafe' term as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, addiction has a hereditary component, where the presence of certain combinations of genes can make a person more susceptible to developing addiction, given exposure to the right combination of environmental and social cues. It also dramatically alters the brain's structure and function over time and repeated exposure to substances of abuse (which also has an effect on behavior), so there's the biological component.

It's also treated as a disease by the WHO, the AMA and most professionals who help treat people with addictions.

 

[Cacotopia]

Actually, addiction has a hereditary component, where the presence of certain combinations of genes can make a person more susceptible to developing addiction, given exposure to the right combination of environmental and social cues. It also dramatically alters the brain's structure and function over time and repeated exposure to substances of abuse (which also has an effect on behavior), so there's the biological component.

It's also treated as a disease by the WHO, the AMA and most professionals who help treat people with addictions.

Aside from a clinical definitions, you don't get an addiction out of the blue. I will never wake up tomorrow a heroin addict. Because I have never taken heroin.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually, addiction has a hereditary component, where the presence of certain combinations of genes can make a person more susceptible to developing addiction, given exposure to the right combination of environmental and social cues. It also dramatically alters the brain's structure and function over time and repeated exposure to substances of abuse (which also has an effect on behavior), so there's the biological component.

It's also treated as a disease by the WHO, the AMA and most professionals who help treat people with addictions.

So do you think a cure will ever be discovered and prescribed as with other diseases?

 

[PureX]

Addiction is obtained by allowing yourself to become dependent on a substance or activity do to complete lack of self restraint. Addicts are weak willed people that put themselves in the holes they are in.

Diseases indiscriminately infect people. They are not chosen.

No one chooses addiction. And addiction is not a case of being "weak willed". We are all "weak willed" in all sorts of ways. But none of us wills ourselves to be devastated and destroyed slowly and painfully. You are just victim-blaming through blind ignorance. And although I understand how difficult it us for someone that has not experienced an addiction to understand how powerful and inexplicable they are, that still doesn't excuse your victim-blaming. I hope someday you will learn the value of compassion even as I also hope you never have to experience the horror of an addiction.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So do you think a cure will ever be discovered and prescribed as with other diseases?

A cure, as in you pop a pill and you don't have addiction anymore? Not likely. There are just too many factors involved.

A cure, as in, a way to manage the illness and keep it from destroying one's health and life? Sure, that's possible.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Aside from a clinical definitions, you don't get an addiction out of the blue. I will never wake up tomorrow a heroin addict. Because I have never taken heroin.

If you were prescribed opiates to treat your short-term or chronic pain, you could potentially "wake up tomorrow an addict."

If you had a drink of alcohol and then discovered you were unable to stop drinking after you had started, you could potentially "wake up tomorrow an addict."

If you were born to a mother who had abused drugs while pregnant, you could potentially "wake up tomorrow an addict."

If you suffered from chronic depression or anxiety and lacked the coping skills or access to mental health resources, you could potentially "wake up tomorrow an addict."

People don't choose to be addicted to things. Nobody sets out wanting to develop an addiction that will slowly destroy their life.

 

[Cacotopia]

I have been prescribed opiates, I also took them as prescribed. What's written on the bottle is not merely a suggestion. People who chose*** to ignore the doctor's orders get no sympathy from me.

 

[Cacotopia]

Where has it happened? Where has someone who had no drinking habit previously is instantly an alcoholic the next day. You don't go on a bender one night and then need alcohol to function normally. You don't take an opiate one day, and then suddenly have a chemical dependency on them the next day. It's PREPOSTEROUS to suggest it. If I take say hydrocodon tonight I'm not going to go through withdrawals tomorrow.

Addictions form from not having the will to check yourself.

Gee I have to take triple what's prescribed to get the desired affect, I guess I should just double the dose. When tolerances go up, that's where you need to start regulating your intake. IGNORING those signs isn't a disease, it's just stupidity.

I have watched personally several friend throw away perfectly good lives to drugs and they were aware of it the entire time, even when they knew the signs. They were just to selfish and weak to stop. They had the resources to quit, they had a support network to go to, they weren't from poor families. they just loved getting high and some paid with their lives. I feel bad that they are gone, but death is a sweet embrace compared to the husks they had become.

 

[Cacotopia]

I once had compassion for those that have succumbed to addictions, but it's been torn out of me forcefully.from getting abused for the help I tried to provide. Screw em. I don't care anymore.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Where has it happened? Where has someone who had no drinking habit previously is instantly an alcoholic the next day. You don't go on a bender one night and then need alcohol to function normally. You don't take an opiate one day, and then suddenly have a chemical dependency on them the next day. It's PREPOSTEROUS to suggest it. If I take say hydrocodon tonight I'm not going to go through withdrawals tomorrow.

Addictions form from not having the will to check yourself.

It looked as though you were using hyperbolic language, so I used it right back.
Obviously you don't go to bed and wake up a drug addict in the morning.

I think you're overlooking the point.


P.S. This whole "addicts just don't have willpower" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Addiction is much more complex than that simplistic garbage.

Gee I have to take triple what's prescribed to get the desired affect, I guess I should just double the dose. When tolerances go up, that's where you need to start regulating your intake. IGNORING those signs isn't a disease, it's just stupidity.

No it's not stupidity - it's addiction. Sounds like you need to do some more research on the subject.

Many people who have chronic pain end up having to take pain medication for life. Regardless of whether or not one abuses those drugs, they will develop a tolerance for it. It's just inevitable.
So their dose will have to be upped at some point and then again at another point and so on. Or they may up the dose themselves, when they find that their regular dosage isn't getting rid of the pain like it used to. People aren't necessarily just upping their dosage to get all high out of their minds. They're in pain, and they're seeking relief. A little empathy may help you better understand.

 

[Cacotopia]

I guess you just might need to get screwed over a fair bit more, or have your valuables stolen, or your property damaged beyond repair, or perhaps have your life put in danger by these "poor lost souls" to better understand my complete lack of empathy.

They want help, you take them to a clinic, you get em cleaned up because you don't want your friend to die. Then after all that effort, you go check on em and they are barred out with barely a pulse on the floor. 2 days after leaving the in patient program.

Maybe you tried to get your once best friend a place to crash with promises that they are going to go to that out patient center and you go to the bathroom and your computer is gone and so are they.

Maybe you are picking your friend up to take him home and a stranger gets in the car with him and demands money, and there is a gun in his belt, cause your idiot friend bought drugs and said you would foot the bill. NO THANKS, I am personally done with addicts. They ****ed up. And I guess I was addicted to hope for them. I feel free from my addition to trying to empathize and help them.

Let's not forget all of that emotional and mental abuse they put you through while they were high, or when you tried to suggest they needed help and they wished death on you. Been there done that. I finally gave up, it's absolutely not worth it.

When you got through nearly 2 decades of trying to help only to have them hate you, spit in your face, or die on you, you come back to me. With that positive attitude.

 

[Cacotopia]

Addicts guilt trip you into helping them, they use your empathy to manipulate you. Plain and simple. I'm callous from life experience with it.

How many friends have you personally had that you grew up with since childhood, watched them spiral out of control, then put your entire friendship at risk to save their lives, by "putting them on blast" then them threatening your life a few times, then they got clean for about 6 months, then fell off the wagon and nearly died again and then you kept helping them without abandoning them, until eventually some truly unforgivable events happened, like some armed dude with a gun in your car essentially robbing you.

Now I have done this thread of similar events several times with a few very close friends that I just had to eventually abandon altogether. 25+ year friendships. gone. Does your research help you understand what that is like?

 

[PureX]

I have been prescribed opiates, I also took them as prescribed. What's written on the bottle is not merely a suggestion. People who chose*** to ignore the doctor's orders get no sympathy from me.

You are not the template for everyone else. How is it that you don't understand this?

 

[PureX]

Addicts guilt trip you into helping them, they use your empathy to manipulate you. Plain and simple. I'm callous from life experience with it.

That's part of the psychic damage that comes with chronic addiction. If you had been able to view it as part of the disease, you would have known not to take it so personally. Instead, you viewed it as a moral failure and took it personally. And now you are resentful. But life is not all about you, and you are not the yardstick by which all human behavior should be measured and judged. Once you understand this, you will be able to be far more compassionate toward others without taking their problems as personal affronts.

How many friends have you personally had that you grew up with since childhood, watched them spiral out of control, then put your entire friendship at risk to save their lives, by "putting them on blast" then them threatening your life a few times, then they got clean for about 6 months, then fell off the wagon and nearly died again and then you kept helping them without abandoning them, until eventually some truly unforgivable events happened, like some armed dude with a gun in your car essentially robbing you.

This is the insanity of an addiction. I am sorry you had to experience it, but for every addict there are several people just like yourself, who loved them, and who were hurt by their addictive behavior. I would strongly suggest joining an alanon group for a while to learn how and why this happens, and to learn how to cope with it within yourself. These are people like yourself that have suffered the collateral damage of an addiction, and are learning, together, how to deal with it.

Now I have done this thread of similar events several times with a few very close friends that I just had to eventually abandon altogether. 25+ year friendships. gone. Does your research help you understand what that is like?

Those friends have lost you, too. And they suffer from that loss as well. You think it was their choice, but the definition of addiction is that one has lost the ability to choose. It is a compulsion that they can no longer control, no matter how intently or sincerely they may want to.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I guess you just might need to get screwed over a fair bit more, or have your valuables stolen, or your property damaged beyond repair, or perhaps have your life put in danger by these "poor lost souls" to better understand my complete lack of empathy.

They want help, you take them to a clinic, you get em cleaned up because you don't want your friend to die. Then after all that effort, you go check on em and they are barred out with barely a pulse on the floor. 2 days after leaving the in patient program.

Maybe you tried to get your once best friend a place to crash with promises that they are going to go to that out patient center and you go to the bathroom and your computer is gone and so are they.

Maybe you are picking your friend up to take him home and a stranger gets in the car with him and demands money, and there is a gun in his belt, cause your idiot friend bought drugs and said you would foot the bill. NO THANKS, I am personally done with addicts. They ****ed up. And I guess I was addicted to hope for them. I feel free from my addition to trying to empathize and help them.

Let's not forget all of that emotional and mental abuse they put you through while they were high, or when you tried to suggest they needed help and they wished death on you. Been there done that. I finally gave up, it's absolutely not worth it.

When you got through nearly 2 decades of trying to help only to have them hate you, spit in your face, or die on you, you come back to me. With that positive attitude.

Oh I'm well acquainted ... my father was an alcoholic and drug addict for my entire life. It's what ultimately killed him. Two of my cousins have died from drug overdoses. I understand and identify with what you are talking about here, but I went a different way with it than you did. After my dad died, I decided that I was going get into a field of work where I could help people like my him and my cousins, and that's what I'm trying to do now. I understand where you're coming from though, and I get it. I've felt the way you do many times before.

That behavior that you're talking about ... that is part of the disease of addiction. And rather than taking away from the complexity of addiction or the fact that it's treated as a disease, it reinforces it. I mean, who would choose to act like that? Who would choose to be utterly dependent on a substance so much so that it destroys their life and the lives of those around them? Can you imagine anyone actually wanting to behave this way? That anybody actually wants to disappoint and hurt their loved ones over and over again? Of course not, but it's a disease, and that's what happens when you're addicted and dependent upon a substance.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Addicts guilt trip you into helping them, they use your empathy to manipulate you. Plain and simple. I'm callous from life experience with it.

How many friends have you personally had that you grew up with since childhood, watched them spiral out of control, then put your entire friendship at risk to save their lives, by "putting them on blast" then them threatening your life a few times, then they got clean for about 6 months, then fell off the wagon and nearly died again and then you kept helping them without abandoning them, until eventually some truly unforgivable events happened, like some armed dude with a gun in your car essentially robbing you.

Now I have done this thread of similar events several times with a few very close friends that I just had to eventually abandon altogether. 25+ year friendships. gone. Does your research help you understand what that is like?

I watched my father deteriorate for 3 decades, go in and out of rehab over and over, then have a massive stroke and slowly die over the course of two years. I have cried myself to sleep at night many times over my father, including when I was a child. I understand all too well what it's like. I know the feelings of anger, disappointment, resentment, and fear. I know how the guilt trips go. And the lies and empty promises. Every time the police came to our door ( and that was a lot) I always thought they were going to tell us that my dad was dead. I have anxiety issues to this day, and my dad has been gone for 8 years now. But you know what? I would give almost anything I have to have him back. Even with all that heartbreak.