Looking for suggestions. Our daughter and her 15 yr old son now lives with us. The biggest problem is his ability to sleep, very often up all night. He is on medication to help him focus during the day. It becomes a vicious circle as if he falls asleep at 4 or 5 in the am its an unbelievable struggle to get him up in time for school. Its difficult to determine how much is from the ADHA and how much from spoiled behavior. He is an honor student, but its amazing if he finishes a full week of school.
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adhd, anyone familiar?
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Tough one, and I'm sure you've explored many things already, and most likely have exhausted all possibilities. Still, I'll throw out a few ideas in hopes one of them is something you haven't touched on or tried.
Diet ... sugar, food coloring, gluten, other common allergy foods can trigger ADHD.
Acupuncture ... has been used as a sleep aid in some cases.
THC ... can aid some folks with overactive minds
caffeine ... has the opposite effect on some people
more fresh air, more exercise
music
naturopathy
Best wishes. I don't envy you. In my experience, the medical establishment knows less than they think they do in a wide array of things labelled ADHD. So keep trying stuff.
Diet ... sugar, food coloring, gluten, other common allergy foods can trigger ADHD.
Acupuncture ... has been used as a sleep aid in some cases.
THC ... can aid some folks with overactive minds
caffeine ... has the opposite effect on some people
more fresh air, more exercise
music
naturopathy
Best wishes. I don't envy you. In my experience, the medical establishment knows less than they think they do in a wide array of things labelled ADHD. So keep trying stuff.
As someone who has never been officially diagnosed but has most, if not all, of the symptoms, ADHD could indeed prevent one from getting to sleep. I personally have learned how to still my mind through meditative practices, but it certainly can be an issue and was for me early in life. It's almost a feeling that if you go to sleep, you might miss something or may have forgotten to do something.
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As I was saying, and I'm not saying that this is for everyone, but yoga nidra has helped me immensely in getting to sleep. I still, at times, wake up in the middle of the night and have trouble getting to sleep back to sleep, but I'll turn over, get the tablet, and play a guided yoga nidra meditation and usually can get back to sleep.
Also, you may want to look at diet, especially in the hours leading to bedtime. Drinks that contain caffeine or food that contains sugar can prevent him from getting to sleep.
That said, discipline could also be an issue. Has your daughter had him commit to a bedtime schedule or a "lights out - no electronics" time?
As I was saying, and I'm not saying that this is for everyone, but yoga nidra has helped me immensely in getting to sleep. I still, at times, wake up in the middle of the night and have trouble getting to sleep back to sleep, but I'll turn over, get the tablet, and play a guided yoga nidra meditation and usually can get back to sleep.
Also, you may want to look at diet, especially in the hours leading to bedtime. Drinks that contain caffeine or food that contains sugar can prevent him from getting to sleep.
That said, discipline could also be an issue. Has your daughter had him commit to a bedtime schedule or a "lights out - no electronics" time?
Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
You HAVE to make sure her kid takes it at the right time of day at the same time every time. If it's late, expect them to be wired all night. I went through all that nightmare as a kid. I have since abandoned the medication altogether and learned to cope without it since.
But amphetamine salts wreak havoc on their appetite and emotional stability, at least it did for me. If they are good with their meds I would suggest the moment they wake up, to ensure that it wears off towards the end of the day, and that they can actually sleep at a decent hour.
What are they on? dextroamphetamine, adderol, focalin, ritalin, vyvanse, any of the XR variety? I took em all at one point or another.
Waking em up, my dad just put a cup of ice on the dresser the night before, and threw the ice cold water on me if he couldn't get me up, that works every time, apparently it was very funny for him.
But amphetamine salts wreak havoc on their appetite and emotional stability, at least it did for me. If they are good with their meds I would suggest the moment they wake up, to ensure that it wears off towards the end of the day, and that they can actually sleep at a decent hour.
What are they on? dextroamphetamine, adderol, focalin, ritalin, vyvanse, any of the XR variety? I took em all at one point or another.
Waking em up, my dad just put a cup of ice on the dresser the night before, and threw the ice cold water on me if he couldn't get me up, that works every time, apparently it was very funny for him.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Not being able to sleep well or wake up in the night is horrible. I had this for 20 years. Till I found out that it was in my case easy to remedy.
I used to eat too much, and especially at night. So when I eat my calories in morning and lunch and for dinner just vegetables I sleep well
23-01 is gall time. Whenever I eat oily stuff after 15h I wake up at 23-01. Whenever I eat heavy on calories after 15h I wake up at 01-03 (liver time)
If it has to do with digestion, this trick works miracles in 1 or 2 days. So no need to follow a diet for a long time, you have immediate results
In the Western world people mostly get sick from over eating or eating wrong food or at wrong timings. Emotional eating is a well known thing.
So a balanced diet can work miracles in most of the cases. Some people can eat whatever they like. If your system is delicate you just have to take better care
In my experience doctors (in Holland) will still tell this is rubbish. But as I am a scientist, I just try it out myself and then I know.
Hint: If you tell your daughters son to follow a diet it is best you do it together with him. Once he knows this is the trick it's easier to follow through
As a free range child myself i would be like your son if i was raise in the burbs or city. A bit like keeping a wolf in an apartment. You cant compare your son to persian cats totally different critter. So a wolf florishes in the wild, and a persian cat exposed to anthing other that fine urbane living will become agitated.
I suggest lots and lots of wild wanderings in wild places. The great outdoors and running around may help settle him. He might not grasp it at first wuth no video games etc but hey shut off from all the nonsense and kids start to function properly. He should be a good sleeper with 20 mile hikes.
Yes, daydreaming type. Lots of fidgeting and difficulty listening to instruction. Also I was spanked in the 3rd grade for not hearing the teacher call us in from the playground.
I have other family members and some nieces and nephews, one of whom has the kind of symptoms you describe.
My first bit of advice is to occasionally, as frequently as possible, let the kid run and play hard with no meds. Only use the meds when necessary I think. Check with the doctor about it, but I think they will probably say that is fine. Secondly, this child is likely to miss out on some of the subtle lessons of life. Why tuck in the shirt and dress nice? Why work hard to make friends? Why invite people for parties? Why not ask other kids what divorce is? Look for some books they will like that treat this deficiency, preferably in a funny cartoon form.
As for getting them to sleep you should first of all carefully regulate meals. Meals should have absolute times. Then you should have a bed-time trail. That is every night there should be an established routine involving getting changed, having a snack, doing something fun for maybe a half hour, brushing teeth, read a story, lights out.
No TV after a certain time. Control room temperature. If possible it should become gradually cooler after the lights go out but not too cool. Keep conditions always the same at night.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
@pcarl
I'ma piggyback off Vinayaka. I have ADD (as so told and symphonized) and see a therapist for it and anxiety. What helps me also is walking meditation. I can't sit still no more than a second (literally) and five minutes is stretching it. So, as part of my practice I walk every morning. Maybe evening in walks may help calm the nerves.
I don't know about restlessness but I do go to bed late. Sugar and soda are huge triggers.
As for the practice stuff like getting him ready for school and all, can you develop a routine like with an alarm clock so he can associate what he needs to do with a sound or activity?
For example, if the alarm goes off at seven, he knows to brush his teeth. Half hour another alarm to trigger him to, say, put his close on. Kinda do at the same time as you telling him so he says attentive. After awhile he may not need the alarm. I'm just throwing out suggestions. For me, sounds distract me so I only use it once.
Umm. But, yeah, slow active activists in the evening, and associate responsibilities with attention methods.
Sorry. This auto spelling correct gets on my nerves.
The medication he takes kills the appetite most of the day, he binges at night.
It does help to a point but he falls asleep to early, up at 10 or 11 sleeps again at 4 and resists getting up for school.
But the meds allow him to function, to focus. Without them his mind is like a puzzle with pieces scattered.
What would act as stimulants for us is calming for him.
Yes sleep is an extremely serious issue. But thats also a part of culture today. We live in a 24/7 world wiyh lots of stuff to distract us.
We have joked at work, and its true, you have to be ADHD and OCD to manage construction jobs. The art of construction requires ADHD qualities with an OCD focus. Video games comes to mind pretty quickly. I think sometimes we have so many choices so much data we get over loaded by choices, i cant imagine being a kid today. But they do tend to develop focus at differnt rates, if they dont, they generally figure out that focus isnt a bad thing after awhile. Your issues make my daughters issues seem minor, she cant walk or talk but shes very cool. Sometimes smart is a pain.
I thank you all for your suggestions. Routine is important. I've tried to convince my daughter of this, she tends to coddle him, which worries me because at 15 he is soon going to face the real world. He dreams of joining the military, to the extreme. His favorite place to visit and shop is the Army surplus stores, has played with toy soldiers since 3, knows every gun and tank ever made etc. He is strong in academics, wants to enter college on ROTC. My daughter resists the idea of therapy, but I think there must be skills he can learn to help himself cope and take more control.
I am not a doctor, and I certainly am not going to criticize your own knowledge of your own child. You know them and what they are like without medication, and I don't. I am recounting what measures my clever relatives have taken for their kids. The strict mealtimes and bed time trail and their ideas about medications all have seemed to work and to get them through the fog. I grew up with no medication and no strict meal times, bed times, etc. My mind was all over the place and still is, and I pay dearly for that. Medication does not help me. It doesn't work for everyone.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Aha. That's why he can't sleep I think.
I have been binging in the past and could never sleep. It can be hard to overcome binging if you binge out of emotional problems, if it's only a bad habit then if you explain to him he will sleep well if he changes his diet AND if he is smart he will do it.
If it's an emotional problem, then better not tell him to change his diet (I was not able to change my bad habits for many years even while I knew I should because I had to solve the underlying emotional problem first, that's why I can never tell someone to change his diet). But I can give a suggestion and don't judge him when he is unable to do it.
Loss of appetite probably is not gone because of medications but because of the binging in the night. I sometimes still eat too much at night, then I do not sleep well AND I am not hungry till next evening. But now I am smart, so I do eat a little even when not hungry in the morning AND do not eat at night and no surprise next morning I am VERY hungry. I am underweight, so it works wihtin 12h. If someone has plenty of reserves it might take 24h or 48h to get hungry. But someone who normally binges probably will be hungry pretty soon when not eating
If still there is no appetite even when NOT eating at all then I would say the medicine is really bad. Because it's natural to get hungry if you eat ZERO.
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Interesting as my grandson's behavior also presents symptoms of OCD. Its a must he wears his watch, and it must be on him before he leaves the house, when he could save time putting it on the way to school etc.
And mine lighter after reading yours!
I guess its all about balance. When the med wares off he talks non stop about anything and everything until he winds down. I think the bottom line is that his brain is just not wired like a normal brain.