Affirmative Action - Yes or No?

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How do you feel about Affirmative action? Is affirmative action really necessary?

Some people consider AA to be race-based preferences that leads to reverse discrimination and lowers standards of accountability needed to push students or employees to perform better. The other side says that it's needed to counter existing discrimination and that diversity is desirable and won't always occur if left to chance.

Where do you stand on the debate?

 

[Breathe]

While I understand why it exists in theory, I oppose it because I see it as little more than a form of racism. Positive discrimination is still a form of discrimination. It also makes many of those on the lowest of the social ladder feeling bitterness against minorities because they do not have the opportunities, either.

People can't help the skin they are born with, so why should they be favoured or discriminated against based on it?

 

[Shuddhasattva]

1. It's reverse discrimination.
2. It's a **** poor excuse for real reparations.

That said, I provisionally support it due to the defacto 'affirmative action' working in favor of the majority. But I dislike it - intensely. I just don't believe a real solution is politically possible.

 

[Quintessence]

I think it's one of the more brilliant pieces of work that came out of my government. Why? Because it builds a strong middle-class population of minorities that will eventually make this kind of action obsolete. A principle barrier to better standards of living for minorities is poor socio-economic status, which is an order of magnitude harder to dig yourself out of if you're actively discriminated against (which they are; let's not be naive and pretend racism, sexism and the like have gone away). It takes a few generations of building foundations for a program like this to run its full course. Not sure it's there yet, but there's definite headway in getting minorities into that middle class bracket.

 

[Revoltingest]

A fundamental premise of affirmative action is that government may deny some individuals their just opportunity for the greater good of the hive.
Me no likey.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I worked in the steel mill when the Consent Decree opened up my department to women. It was an important victory, and its importance had little to do with the relative merit of the first woman hired.

Affirmative action is a forward looking transitional program. Whatever benefits or shortcomings are experiences by those impacted by the process, future generations will look back on schools, workplaces, and even communities that embrace diversity while eroding the stereotypes and fear previously bred by segregation.

 

[George-ananda]

I'm against Affirmative Action for a number of reasons.

But here, I'll address the 500 lb gorilla in the room. That some ethnic groups, for genetic reasons beyond governments's control, will be over and under represented in the different areas of society.

I believe, as unpopular as this may make me here, that many of society's racial and ethnic over and under representations in society have a basis in genetics (certainly environment is also a factor). For example, Jewish over-representation in the higher intellectual fields has a large genetic factor involved. It may sound like an ugly opinion to some people but the truth is nature is not always fair whether we like it or not.

Government's attempt to social engineer through so-called Affirmitave Action is based on faulty, but well-meaning, assumptions. It has lowered standards and it makes us question the true abilities of minorities that earn their positions on merit (in Affirmative Action fields I have actually heard others say quietly 'you know why she got that position don't you, wink, wink'). It does a disservice to those minorities that got their position on merit alone.

I think there is a taboo against even discussing this 500 lb gorilla in the room. As I'm not running for elective office and don't need public acceptance, I'm not afraid to go against the speaking taboo.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm against Affirmative Action for a number of reasons.
But here, I'll address the 500 lb gorilla in the room. That some ethnic groups, for genetic reasons beyond governments's control, will be over and under represented in the different areas of society.
I believe, as unpopular as this may make me here, that many of society's racial and ethnic over and under representations in society have a basis in genetics (certainly environment is also a factor). For example, Jewish over-representation in the higher intellectual fields has a large genetic factor involved. It may sound like an ugly opinion to some people but the truth is nature is not always fair whether we like it or not.
Government's attempt to social engineer through so-called Affirmitave Action is based on faulty, but well-meaning, assumptions. It has lowered standards and it makes us question the true abilities of minorities that earn their positions on merit (in Affirmative Action fields I have actually heard others say quietly 'you know why she got that position don't you, wink, wink'). It does a disservice to those minorities that got their position on merit alone.
I think there is a taboo against even discussing this 500 lb gorilla in the room. As I'm not running for elective office and don't need public acceptance, I'm not afraid to go against the speaking taboo.

Are you joking? (I really can't tell.)

 

[George-ananda]

Are you joking? (I really can't tell.)

Not joking.

 

[Sunstone]

I think affirmative action programs are flawed, but I don't know what to replace them with. You cannot have a permanent underclass in society -- especially one that is ultimately based on racial prejudice. And I do believe racial prejudice is still a significant force in our society.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not joking.

I disagree. But oh, yer gonna get it!

 

[Alex_G]

How do you feel about Affirmative action? Is affirmative action really necessary?

Some people consider AA to be race-based preferences that leads to reverse discrimination and lowers standards of accountability needed to push students or employees to perform better. The other side says that it's needed to counter existing discrimination and that diversity is desirable and won't always occur if left to chance.

Where do you stand on the debate?

nah, it continues to feel wrong in my bones, even if it means well.

 

[Apex]

I'm against Affirmative Action for a number of reasons.

But here, I'll address the 500 lb gorilla in the room. That some ethnic groups, for genetic reasons beyond governments's control, will be over and under represented in the different areas of society.

I believe, as unpopular as this may make me here, that many of society's racial and ethnic over and under representations in society have a basis in genetics (certainly environment is also a factor). For example, Jewish over-representation in the higher intellectual fields has a large genetic factor involved. It may sound like an ugly opinion to some people but the truth is nature is not always fair whether we like it or not.

Government's attempt to social engineer through so-called Affirmitave Action is based on faulty, but well-meaning, assumptions. It has lowered standards and it makes us question the true abilities of minorities that earn their positions on merit (in Affirmative Action fields I have actually heard others say quietly 'you know why she got that position don't you, wink, wink'). It does a disservice to those minorities that got their position on merit alone.

I think there is a taboo against even discussing this 500 lb gorilla in the room. As I'm not running for elective office and don't need public acceptance, I'm not afraid to go against the speaking taboo.

Have you ever considered that it may have more to do with culture than genetics?

 

[George-ananda]

Have you ever considered that it may have more to do with culture than genetics?

Yes. And I concluded both factors are involved. Impossible for anyone to give you an exact number but I'll guess 70% genetics/ 30% culture ?? 100% culture is not believable from my considerations.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I worked in the steel mill when the Consent Decree opened up my department to women. It was an important victory, and its importance had little to do with the relative merit of the first woman hired.

Affirmative action is a forward looking transitional program. Whatever benefits or shortcomings are experiences by those impacted by the process, future generations will look back on schools, workplaces, and even communities that embrace diversity while eroding the stereotypes and fear previously bred by segregation.

Well said!

 

[Reptillian]

I've noticed that in America, affirmative action seems to result in more "foreign" minorities than "domestic" minorities. There are a lot of Indian and Chinese immigrant doctors at the hospital I work at, but few asian-americans and african-americans.

 

[George-ananda]

I've noticed that in America, affirmative action seems to result in more "foreign" minorities than "domestic" minorities. There are a lot of Indian and Chinese immigrant doctors at the hospital I work at, but few asian-americans and african-americans.

The immigrant Indian and Chinese doctors wouldn't be aided by Affirmative Action programs would they?? Could it be because they come cheaper to the hospital??

 

[Skwim]

A good friend of mine is a firefighter on the Minneapolis fire department. I remember him telling me that when Affirmative Action was employed in the department the city had to bypass almost 300 male candidates to reach the first female on the list. He said that the standards for qualifying were lowered to meet AA female hiring mandates. He said this resulted in fire fighters (the females) who were often unable to do a competent job. To me, in a dangerous job like fighting fires this not only poses a potential danger to everyone involved, but is likely to affect the quality of the job. As an example, he said that whereas single man was able to carry in a heavy window fan---they exhaust the smoke in a building---he'd never seen a female firefighter do it without help. So while AA may have helped a few females get a job, in turn it had unacceptable negative effects.

 

[Reptillian]

The immigrant Indian and Chinese doctors wouldn't be aided by Affirmative Action programs would they?? Could it be because they come cheaper to the hospital??

I don't know if they would or not. All I know that a lot of the "minorities" I meet at the hospital were not born in the United States. They're brilliant physicians and nice people, but they're I don't see very many American minorities.

 

[Me Myself]

1. It's reverse discrimination.
2. It's a **** poor excuse for real reparations.

That said, I provisionally support it due to the defacto 'affirmative action' working in favor of the majority. But I dislike it - intensely. I just don't believe a real solution is politically possible.

Agree with this mostly. I just would say that it is not "reverse discrimination", but plain direct discrimination. "I will give this to the black person with lower competence on the job than you, because s/he is black" I am sorry, that´s direct discrimination.

It was good for one time, but it´s time to remove it. I would have provisionally superted it on the past, but you have to take the helping wheels sometime.