Against Atheism

[ΩRôghênΩ]

I hav personnaly loked at this website, but do not agree with everything it says. from this mans point of view it may explain some things though (Dr. Clayton).This is mainly used to challenge the atheistic views of Christianity with science, reason, mathematics, and perception of reality.Note that these are very long and descriptive essays so you may not want to read them all.

Proof of God
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

What God is
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Flatland.html

Who created God
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/WhoCreatedGod/WhoCreatedGod.html

Why God created us
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Design-tract.html

Why Doctor Clayton left atheism to become a Christian
http://www.doesgodexist.org/AboutClayton/PastLife.html

Why God gives revelations throughout the bible
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/GodsRevelationInHisRocksAndInHisWord/GodsRevelationInHisRocksAndInHisWord.html

Why evil exists
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/ProblemOfHumanSuffering.html

Who was The Annointed One
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/TheRealJesusOfHistory/TheRealJesusOfHistory.html

 

[Ody]

You will learn, the greatest arguements by learned men will not sway anyone, towards theism or atheism. So his whole mission is a little moot.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

maybe if you read it it would. im really not getting what your saying.

 

[Ody]

maybe if you read it it would. im really not getting what your saying.

I am saying that man is thick headed in his reasoning, after all some believe the world to be only thousands of years old! :biglaugh: The writer must learn, that his arguements are moot in that many will reject evidence itself.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Can you summarize what he has has to say on the subject?

 

[Ody]

Can you summarize what he has has to say on the subject?

I bet you his work is a retread of others.

 

[gnomon]

I read the Proof of God link. I find the following assertions to be flawed.

The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning.

"Matter is self-existing and not created," and that is a concise statement of the atheist's belief.

The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

Athiests claim no such thing for athiests hold no dogma. Athiesm merely means without belief in God. The definition prescribes nothing about any other belief about the universe. Only that there is a lack of theism. That is all. The author's continued use of the term athiest in his essay is enough to show that the author truly does not understand his own argument.

The rest of the essay was hardly any proof of God's existence. And definitely not, borrowing from the last quote above, a biblical assertion that there was a beginning being scientifically correct.

I'm not too sure I would actually entertain reading any of the other threads. Perhaps later.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

gnomon is right, but alan gurvey still fails to read this. therefore he really has no basis for his statement

 

[Ody]

gnomon is right, but alan gurvey still fails to read this. therefore he really has no basis for his statement

Why should i read it? The concepts of the divine are improvable by man at this time, and i know for a fact that this is true. THAT WE HAVE NO COMPLETE CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE FOR THE DIVINE.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

gnomon is right, but alan gurvey still fails to read this. therefore he really has no basis for his statement

I am familiar enough with Alan to know that I respect his questions and opinions. I'd say his learning is his basis. I'm also curious as to how you know whether or not he's read the material.

Unfortunately, a lot of Clayton's experiences seem based on his own 'being saved' from being an atheist. ("Why I Left Atheism") He goes on to make several generalizations about what atheists believe, some of which Gnoman was good enough to point out. "The atheist" is a polite euphemism for all atheists, which creates the same logical fallacy as saying all of one group is one thing or believes one thing. "The pagan believes in the Summerlands..." "The Christian believes that the KJV is the best translation available..." It's easy to attack a theological viewpoint (or a nontheological viewpoint) if you assume that everyone from a group believes the same thing.

I'm not sure if you're simply wanting an opinion on Clayton's work, Roghen, or if you wish to debate a particular topic that he discusses. If you wish to do the former, please state the topic to be debated.

 

[ch'ang]

I only read the first essay and could not continue to the others because the countless baseless assumptions that were made (and also the scientific inaccuracies)

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

i really dont concentrate on his statements on atheuism more about his positive outlook on god.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

i really dont concentrate on his statements on atheuism more about his positive outlook on god.

Rather than his negative outlook on atheism? Why is the title of the thread "Against Atheism"?

 

[Booko]

i really dont concentrate on his statements on atheuism more about his positive outlook on god.

The problem is how do you focus on someone's positive outlook on God when you have to first wade through a bunch of baseless nonense about what atheists supposedly believe?

If I pick up a journal on foreign policy and the writer starts off by telling me that Botswana is a country in S. America, it's not likely I'm going to take anything else he has to say very seriously.

My time is much too valuable to be bothered with things like that.

I prefer to waste it on the Village Idiot thread. :seesaw:

 

[Booko]

This is mainly used to challenge the atheistic views of Christianity with science, reason, mathematics, and perception of reality.Note that these are very long and descriptive essays so you may not want to read them all.

Actually they are long and tedious essays, which is not the same thing.

btw, which one of the many "the" atheistic views was he referring to?

I was an atheist for many years, and unlike the author of these works, I do not look back upon that experience as "foolish mistakes" or "idiotic."

I consider it a necessary step I had to take to get to where I am now.

The really "foolish" thing to have done would be to keep believing in a God that thought only people with my amount of melanin were worth anything. Oh yeah, and those who had male body parts. Oh yeah, and were well-to-do. And those who were not young. Oh yeah, and turned off their brains to the evidence in the world around them.

I could go on, but I will be merciful and stop now.

 

[Abram]

I hav personnaly loked at this website, but do not agree with everything it says. from this mans point of view it may explain some things though (Dr. Clayton).This is mainly used to challenge the atheistic views of Christianity with science, reason, mathematics, and perception of reality.Note that these are very long and descriptive essays so you may not want to read them all.

Proof of God
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

What God is
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Flatland.html

Who created God
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/WhoCreatedGod/WhoCreatedGod.html

Why God created us
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Design-tract.html

Why Doctor Clayton left atheism to become a Christian
http://www.doesgodexist.org/AboutClayton/PastLife.html

Why God gives revelations throughout the bible
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/GodsRevelationInHisRocksAndInHisWord/GodsRevelationInHisRocksAndInHisWord.html

Why evil exists
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/ProblemOfHumanSuffering.html

Who was The Annointed One
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/TheRealJesusOfHistory/TheRealJesusOfHistory.html

Some of it was hard to follow. But I thought it gives a strong argument for his point. A lot of science we just have to take their word for. It was only a couple hundred years ago when science had proven the world to be infinitely old and if you were a Bible believing idiot (like me) you were against the final word of science. The world never had a beginning they said.
So you can choose to believe man or God. I'm with you on this one...

 

[Ody]

Some of it was hard to follow. But I thought it gives a strong argument for his point. A lot of science we just have to take their word for. It was only a couple hundred years ago when science had proven the world to be infinitely old and if you were a Bible believing idiot (like me) you were against the final word of science. The world never had a beginning they said.
So you can choose to believe man or God. I'm with you on this one...

One cannot run from science, he must adapt to it.

 

[Sunstone]

Garbage in, garbage out, Lord Roghen. A person needs a better quality diet than this Dr. Clayton provides. Have you read any of the essays of C.S. Lewis?

 

[Abram]

Garbage in, garbage out, Lord Roghen. A person needs a better quality diet than this Dr. Clayton provides. Have you read any of the essays of C.S. Lewis?

CS Lewis is awesome. I love Mere Christianity!

 

[Booko]

Garbage in, garbage out, Lord Roghen. A person needs a better quality diet than this Dr. Clayton provides. Have you read any of the essays of C.S. Lewis?

Oh, pin a Kick Me sign on my rear end --- why didn't I think of this??? :bonk: