Agnostics, call in

[Unveiled Artist]

I think it's a safe bet that if there is a god, this entity has very few, if any at all, human-like attributes and similarities.

Probably wouldnt be god then. Shrugs.

 

[Desert Snake]

Oh?

Say youre solving my favorite math problem: 2 and 2 is 4.

Say the equation is 2 + X = 4

You take what you know "2" and "4" to solve for what you dont know, "X".

Agnostics seem to stop at "we dont know X so thats it".

Not necessarily.

Theist are more "why solve for X? Accept the equation as is".

Not necessarily.

Then an atheist comes along and says, "hey, now, what a second! We have the numbers why Not solve the problem?"

They don't have the numbers.

Agnostic: Cause we dont know what X is.

Yep, pretty rational, actually.

Theist: Its not the answer thats important but the mystery/X-factor that makes the problem worth not solving.

Theists already believe in God, or gods.

Many athiests have the "numbers" to solve the psychology of religion.

No,they don't. And religion is not a psychology question.

They solved for X that agnostics say is unknown and theist say is not important to know (aka, God works in mysterious ways), and they find the answer to religious thought. Therefore, they find no reason to put energy into believing that X should stay as X when they already solved the equation.

nope.

Some things arent complicated as we make it.

I'm making things complicated?

I guess thats why people feel "special" in their faith. They found the truth that X need not be solved. They live off the X-factor.

So? Should theists drop their religions because you think there is an ''x factor'' to them?

Hardcore athiest see otherwise.

Great.

 

[Laika]

Are you an atheist because of what you know?

I'm an Atheist because I accept the assumption that all things have natural causes as a materialist. I'd therefore exclude the existence of god from the equation. Logically, that would make me a strong atheist as it means that what I don't know follows the same basic set of rules as all natural pheneomena does because it posses 'material' qualitites (that is matter in the broadest sense of objectively existing of the mind).

However, I am somewhat agnostic on materialism (and therefore on my atheism) as the method of proof for this position is questionable and because it is often accused of being a dogma. Dogmas can be true, but the problem is establishing it as such. So I remain on the border between strong/weak atheism.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm an Atheist because I accept the assumption that all things have natural causes as a materialist. I'd therefore exclude the existence of god from the equation. Logically, that would make me a strong atheist as it means that what I don't know follows the same basic set of rules as all natural pheneomena does because it posses 'material' qualitites (that is matter in the broadest sense of objectively existing of the mind).

However, I am somewhat agnostic on materialism (and therefore on my atheism) as the method of proof for this position is questionable and because it is often accused of being a dogma. Dogmas can be true, but the problem is establishing it as such. So I remain on the border between strong/weak atheism.

In Australia, we would refer to this as 'strong-ish'

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Its hard to quote and remember what you commented on; so, Ill do this in one post.

Not necessarily.

Not necessarily.


They don't have the numbers.

Yep, pretty rational, actually.


Theists already believe in God, or gods.

No,they don't. And religion is not a psychology question.


nope.

I'm making things complicated?

So? Should theists drop their religions because you think there is an ''x factor'' to them?

Great.

The math equation was an analogy and not meant to be taken personal.

X is the Mystery (the 42) people are solving for.

Theists are living on the Mystery. If they lived on Fact (and actual number), thered be no debate.

Its said in many ways:

"They mystery of the Eucharist"
"God works in mysterious ways"
"No one can comprehend the trinity"
Separating life events and calling them miracles (unexplained event from God or whom/whatever)
Miracle babies.
and so forth.

The X factor is lived by faith not fact. There is nothing wrong with that. Going by christianity, faith is what is needed because "no one has seem God's face"....a lot of examples of living on a mysteries.

A lot of tribal religions do. Western faiths, of course. Some eastern but cant quote.

Zen has it too. The Buddha nature belief is another.

Agnostics (This is observation) say "there could be something but it cannot be proven"

There could be a answer for X but its beyond our knowledge.

If that wasnt "just it" theyd go further to solve the equation. Since they dont know if the equation can be solved, why put effort in solving it; especially those saying its beyond their knowledge to do so.

Atheist (can only speak for people who agree with me) some solve for X. They have the pieces and they put it together and the answer they were looking for is Not the person in the frame but the white behind it that makes it "look like" a person but its just black.

Everyone has the numbers. Its can they solve the problem (or see it as a problem to be solved) is the key.

Religion has a lot to do with psychology and physiology as well as upbringing, our social influences, interests.

These are the numbers. We all have them.

Religion, if we dont look at it spiritually, has a lot to do with psychology. A lot of christians feel they are separate from the world. I believe we are a part of the world. Everything IS our beliefs because we interact with everything. To say it is only spiritualnis taking out the "mind and body" of the trinitary equation. Mind, Body, And Spirit.

It is not wrong. Its saying we are not just spirits. Psychology has just as much to do with shaping my faith as my ancestors.

Its not belittlement. Just facts.

I said: "some things arent as complicates as we make it."

We--you, me, jane, john, and every other person--make things more complicated than life really is. (I value simplicity)

What I say is literally what I mean unless I say otheewise. I hate indirect statements. So, I meant We not you.

Should theist drop their faith? No. Their faith is depended on the X Factor. Nothing wrong with that. Bad wording on my part. Sorry.

 

[Desert Snake]

These posts are excessively multi topic, and difficult to quote. I'm going to stop my side of the debate, at this point.

 

[Jumi]

Yes, I'm agnostic relating to most god concepts.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Are you an atheist because of what you know?

No. I'm an agnostic.

 

[Underhill]

I don't know if there is a higher power out there, but I'm reasonably certain that the gods people worship aren't him.

 

[Ouroboros]

To answer the OP, I'm all things. Labels don't describe me. I describe me.

I'm an atheist to the gods that I know about (meaning, I know about the concepts behind them and actively reject their existence).

I'm an agnostic about the gods that I have never heard about and no nothing or close to nothing about.

I'm a pantheist as a view of the natural world, reality, existence and such, which makes me a theist according to many atheists.

I'm also a panentheist because I don't think when we say world, reality, and existence that really even know what it means, so the word "all" might not even be an accurate word to describe... "all". Then, there this old and worn out word that perhaps can be used as a label for it. A word where I have gutted everything I didn't believe in and put in all things that are both scientific and the mystical. That word is...

So I'm all things in some way or the other.

 

[Alitheia Aylso]

Are you an atheist because of what you know?

I am an Agnostic because of what I know, the fact that I cannot know.

It is highly likely that Atheism is correct but I do not know because it is still improbable but possible for deity to exist.

 

[snazzykyle]

Say youre solving my favorite math problem: 2 and 2 is 4.

Say the equation is 2 + X = 4

You take what you know "2" and "4" to solve for what you dont know, "X".

Agnostics seem to stop at "we dont know X so thats it".

Theist are more "why solve for X? Accept the equation as is".

Then an atheist comes along and says, "hey, now, what a second! We have the numbers why Not solve the problem?"

Agnostic: Cause we dont know what X is.

Theist: Its not the answer thats important but the mystery/X-factor that makes the problem worth not solving.

I consider myself an agnostic Christian. By this I mean that I do not believe that any person can know truth, but I choose to believe that the Christian faith is true because it benefits my way of living and outlook on life.
That being said, this is how I view the equation:

2 + X = Y

The 2 represents life on earth, what we can all experience and form some sort of understanding about.
The Y represents what many refer to as the spiritual life. Whether that is life after death, a separation of body and spirit, or some sort of enlightenment depends on what you believe.
The X represents how 2 and Y relate. Again, this can manifest as prayer, meditation, or a more direct connection (which I have not experienced, such as speaking in tongues).

Therefore, the agnostic in me argues that you are correct in saying if we knew what Y was then we could have a better guess at X. However, I view it as illogical to claim knowledge of Y.
My best friend is an apostolic and states that he knows truth (Y) because he experienced X (speaking in tongues). With this, I can at least reason through his thought process.
In the end, I do not think we know anything more than "2", but I choose to believe that the Christian faith defines X and Y correctly based on the evidence I have (historical leverage, personal experience).

I hope this is well-received and contributes an agnostic's insight to the discussion.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Are you an atheist because of what you know?

All my conclusions, including beliefs I hold and don't hold, are a result of what I know.

 

[leibowde84]

Are you an atheist because of what you know?

I'm an Agnostic Christian, because, while I believe in God and the divinity of Jesus, I don't see "knowledge of God" or God's will as being possible. No matter how much we think we know what God wants, the best we can do is strongly believe.

 

[leibowde84]

I consider myself an agnostic Christian. By this I mean that I do not believe that any person can know truth, but I choose to believe that the Christian faith is true because it benefits my way of living and outlook on life.
That being said, this is how I view the equation:

2 + X = Y

The 2 represents life on earth, what we can all experience and form some sort of understanding about.
The Y represents what many refer to as the spiritual life. Whether that is life after death, a separation of body and spirit, or some sort of enlightenment depends on what you believe.
The X represents how 2 and Y relate. Again, this can manifest as prayer, meditation, or a more direct connection (which I have not experienced, such as speaking in tongues).

Therefore, the agnostic in me argues that you are correct in saying if we knew what Y was then we could have a better guess at X. However, I view it as illogical to claim knowledge of Y.
My best friend is an apostolic and states that he knows truth (Y) because he experienced X (speaking in tongues). With this, I can at least reason through his thought process.
In the end, I do not think we know anything more than "2", but I choose to believe that the Christian faith defines X and Y correctly based on the evidence I have (historical leverage, personal experience).

I hope this is well-received and contributes an agnostic's insight to the discussion.

Hey!! Me too!! What a coincidence. I thought I might have been the only one on RF.

 

[leibowde84]

I am an Agnostic because of what I know, the fact that I cannot know.

It is highly likely that Atheism is correct but I do not know because it is still improbable but possible for deity to exist.

Do you hold a belief or lack belief in the existence of God?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I consider myself an agnostic Christian. By this I mean that I do not believe that any person can know truth, but I choose to believe that the Christian faith is true because it benefits my way of living and outlook on life.
That being said, this is how I view the equation:

2 + X = Y

The 2 represents life on earth, what we can all experience and form some sort of understanding about.

The Y represents what many refer to as the spiritual life. Whether that is life after death, a separation of body and spirit, or some sort of enlightenment depends on what you believe.

The X represents how 2 and Y relate. Again, this can manifest as prayer, meditation, or a more direct connection (which I have not experienced, such as speaking in tongues).

Therefore, the agnostic in me argues that you are correct in saying if we knew what Y was then we could have a better guess at X.

However, I view it as illogical to claim knowledge of Y.

My best friend is an apostolic and states that he knows truth (Y) because he experienced X (speaking in tongues). With this, I can at least reason through his thought process.
In the end, I do not think we know anything more than "2", but I choose to believe that the Christian faith defines X and Y correctly based on the evidence I have (historical leverage, personal experience).

I hope this is well-received and contributes an agnostic's insight to the discussion.

Nice. I had to read this a couple more times. I didn't know this thread was still active.

I would say people know, rather than just believe, Y is true because they base their forumala for that conclusion on different criteria than they do for 2. For example, with 2 (or life on earth), that's where people talk all about science. We can use tests to validate 2. However, with Y, since it's a variable, our "critera methods" are all personal experiences, how it benefits us, our bias, upbringing, etc. So we Know because we do not base the methods of this knowledge the same way we would with 2. Hence why one is a number the other is a variable.

Therefore, the agnostic in me argues that you are correct in saying if we knew what Y was then we could have a better guess at X.

I'd have to reread the posts, but if we knew X (how to practice our faith), we can close in that gap of knowing 2 but still having that question on top of peoples' heads "But what is X?" So, X is extremely important. What I find (which I forgot the original intent of the OP) is that some people focus to much on solving for Y by studying all they know (2) when they need the X to complete the equation (or live a spiritual life).

I have to revisit my OP. I like what you said. I bolded your posts so I understand what you're saying. Philosophical Algebra gets kind of confusing.