I am. That's why I point out the pros and cons vs just the pros and ignoring/denying the cons.
I don't know. I never got the munchies. So I am not convinced it's a real thing to begin with. /shrug
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Alcohol and/or Drug Consumption Impact On Spirituality
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
- Start date
I am. That's why I point out the pros and cons vs just the pros and ignoring/denying the cons.
I don't know. I never got the munchies. So I am not convinced it's a real thing to begin with. /shrug
Unfortunately many of the points which you listed as cons, are not valid scientifically.
Detrimental affects of smoking can be shown, as that is something that harms us.
The psychoactive aspects of cannabis or any other psychedelic medicine should be dealt with in a spiritual way, and agree there is reason for concern, as they do allow access to realms of perception, that should have religious guidance to be understood properly.
Obviously there are cons, like anything that is done in excess; yet we really do have to reevaluate much of the info we've been brought up with, as there is so much anti-propaganda.
In my opinion.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
I would say it has a negative effect as it makes one dependent on external things for expansion of consicousness. It can also damage the sensitvity and subtletly of the nervous system which is important for observing the mind calmly and its reactions in the form of agitations and fluctuations during meditation.
Eckhart Tolle states in this regard in his insightful book ' A new earth' ...
"When you are very tired, you may become more peaceful, more relaxed than in your usual state. This is because thinking is subsiding, and so you can't remember your mind-made problematic self anymore. You are moving toward sleep. When you drink alcohol or take certain drugs (provided they don't trigger your painbody), you may also feel more relaxed, more carefree, and perhaps more alive a for a while. You may start singing and dancing, which since ancient times are expressions of the joy of life. Because you are less burdened by your mind, you can glimpse the joy of Being. Perhaps this is the reason alcohol is also called “spirit.” But there is a high price to pay: unconsciousness. Instead of rising above thought, you have fallen below it. A few more drinks, and you will have regressed to the vegetable realm. "
I would say that drugs are helpful in making one realise that other states of consciousness is possible than what one usually experiences. But it would take meditation to get there permanently than drugs which does more harm than good in the long run.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
People should just stop justifying things.
It's all for the buzz or getting high. That's the bottom line.
It's all for the buzz or getting high. That's the bottom line.
I feel certain that it does.
In a nutshell, that is because much of spritual development involves training the brain to deal realistically and constructively to perceived stimuli. That relies to a large extent in internal feedback that drugs mess with.
It has no impact, but there are exceptions. Sometimes people are in pain, and so they benefit from a little pain killing. Spiritual growth is about taking responsibility and reaching out, so whatever helps you do that is positive. I find that alcohol helps me with tolerating other people sometimes. I realize that for some people it is addictive as if it were an opiate, so for them it may be less useful and may keep them away from other people.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Firstly find the poll insulting to begin...Alcohol is a poison, an intoxicant, and herbs that get us high is because they work with the bodies biology.
Cannabis in long term users lowers blood pressure.... Plus no one in history has had a heart attack from cannabis use.
This is only an immediate affect due to a persons own psyche being affected, and not the affects of the cannabis on the nervous system.
Cannabis can help cure diabetes; especially in oil form, where we can use it to help alleviate swelling, and symptoms.
Cannabis helps cure liver diseases.
It is a teacher plant, with the right spiritual guidance it helps internal work; with no guidance, people are often going to get worse anyway, any drugs just amplify what is there already.
Part of being spiritual is to explore our consciousness, and to slowly develop an understanding of a reality that is overwhelming.
There is medicinal nutrition globally that has been put here by the divine, for us to properly experience different aspects of our consciousness whilst in a physical body; there is also lots of man made crap, that poison us in someway to make an affect (intoxicants).
Originally most of our worlds religions started from Shamanic culture; so in Zoroastrianism there is Haoma, in Hinduism Soma and in the the Bible we have Kaneh Bosem (cannabis), in the holy anointing oil (Exodus 30:23-24)...
Each of these religions have poetic writings that were influenced by the use of most likely the same plant; therefore to even understand these text in all their glory, we need to experience it in the manner it was written.
Originally tho in Shamanic culture there was a time of coming to age, where we would introduce Shamanic medicine when a person was ready in a proper ceremony; now tho at 21 in USA or 18 in UK, you're an adult, now you can go get drunk and become more stupid, as we literally burn our grey matter.
With cannabis our brain has cannabinoid neuroreceptors that regulate the firing of neurons, thus making us become more harmonized, and there are also certain receptors stimulated, such as creativity, trance, and reflectiveness.
Thus we're actually designed to have cannabis in our diet, without it many people have malnutrition, where they don't actually think rationally, as their brains are over firing.
Psychedelics are being found to increase the interconnectivity of our frontal lobe, thus making it we learn to think outside of the box by making additional links.
Steve Job said "one of 3 most important things he did in his life was take LSD".
Sting said "taking ayahuasca was one of the most religious experiences he had ever had".
Put it this way we can experience an NDE to realize everything is interconnected, and we exist in a big symbiosis or we can take psychedelic medicines that teach us the same thing.
“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” - Bill Hicks
Considering we have a comedian explaining what we find in many advanced religious texts, and he is making a joke about how much it enlightens us to what western media presents, the answer to your question is obvious by those with experience on the topic.
Though personally would like to reintegrate a spiritual ceremonial system for the usage, and understanding of all these medicines.
In my opinion.
Plus I've known many weed smokers in my life and not one of them ever got stoned and started a barroom brawl...just sayin'.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Ditto. Binder dundat. Burned the T-shirt. Buried it in the back yard. Moved away.
A very close friend of mine *giggles* had the asset of very few preconceptions, was "well adjusted" and simply curious. He ended up chucking the drug routine for meditation after a few years and never looked back. Later, he said, "That is when the real fun began!"
Ah, the art of being an impeccable warrior.
We may have had *giggles* the same friend.
And that is exactly (well, in part) what I was thinking about!
This is exactly correct. What say, smoking pot might do (depending on the type of pot, such as a sativa vs indica) is to temporarily suppress the lower energetic levels, such as guilt and shame and anxiety and all the noise and distractions they cause, and allow the higher states or conditions of awareness to be encountered and explored more freely until you start to learn that "life is more than just fighting all that junk way down there". It allows the higher mind to see by virtue of quieting the other lower voices.
The key to this of course is intention. If you just smoke pot because you don't want to feel that stuff down there, to just get away from it to take a breather, then you can slip into escapism. And escapism is not a spiritual pursuit. It's an avoidance of the actual work necessary for spiritual growth. If you smoke it with the intention to do actual work, then it is an aide to help that. Yes, meditation is the natural way to do this too, but a drug-assisted aide to that can enhance it in ways that regular meditation does not, and vice versa.
So is it for the shaman, as suggest? I'd say yes, if you define the shaman as as any sincere and aware spiritual aspiration on the path of awakening. If you aren't prepared for that, then the drugs become an easy escape from doing the work, and lead to greater problems than before.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
You should always have a big bag of Cheetos handy...ermm...at least that's what I've...uhh...been told.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
IMO, they don't, in general, help spiritual development because they bestow the illusion of spiritual development.
It creates a disconnect between actual spiritual development and the feelings that tend to arise from spiritual development by bypassing the development part. It can lead people to seek out the chemical compounds rather than leading them to develop spiritually.
So what's the point?
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I find the Holy Spirit stuff, like writhing around on the floor, to be much the same thing. Without (I assume) drug exposure, you work yourself up into such a frenzy that you might as well be high.
Yes, well, drumming, chanting, dancing, singing, fasting, sleep deprivation, etc., can also lead to ecstatic states of mind, which can lead to 'religious' visions and spiritual development as well. There are many such methods.
Depends on the drug. If we're talking a depressant, I see no impact on one's spirituality, but a negative impact on one's own thinking ability. It dulls the thinking process.
If we're talking a stimulant, like caffeine or nicotine, I see no problems with that one one's spirituality or mind if done in a moderation to prevent an addiction from forming. I say "nicotine" and not "tobacco", because smoking or chewing tobacco has health risks associated with it apart from the stimulant effects.
But regardless of the health impact of the above two categories, I don't see any spiritual harm.
But then we have a third category, as you point out with the example of mescaline, hallucinogens.
Now hallucinogens have an interesting effect of inducing synesthesia. For those that are unaware, synesthesia is when senses are crossed in the mind and one can do things like getting sensations of color along with sound or getting sensations of taste along with colors seen. Some people have types of synesthesia without drugs (I myself have sound-to-color) but hallucinogens can cause this effect as well. This is important, I think, for knowing the "spiritual impact" of such a drug.
Now you can take either one of two opinions with spiritual experiences. Either you think they are real or you think they are not. Either way, though, I think it is clear that you should not put trust into any spiritual experience you have while on a hallucinogen.
If you are of the view that spiritual experiences are not real, then any spiritual experience you have is a result of a delusion, so hallucinogens are harmful in that they could deceive you.
If you are of the view that spiritual experiences are real, then it follows that there is some process in our mind that can trigger, sense, or interpret such a thing. A "spiritual sensory organ", if you will. Now, if hallucinogens can cause synesthesia to develop temporarily and muddle up interpretations of taste as touch or sound as color, then who's to say it couldn't do something like cause spiritual sensations in synesthetic response to, for example, smells?? If spiritual experiences are legitimate, then a spiritual experience while high on hallucinogens could easily be a result of a hallucinogenic synesthesia translating other sensations into false sensations of spiritual experience.
So either way, I would not trust any spiritual experience induced by hallucinogens. I'd say try to induce a spiritual experience without hallucinogens. That'd be an experience you can trust to be real.
Frankly I'm surprised at the results of the poll (so far: 12 votes negative impact; 3 votes positive). I wonder if the results have something to do with the term "recreational drug use" in the question. That phrase could be understood to refute the very idea of a positive spiritual effect.
When a drug is used for spiritual purposes, its called an entheogen. It seems every (ancient) religion has partaken of entheogenic drug use to some degree. If you do not acquire a broader understanding of what is ultimately real from a hit of LSD, you're hopeless. Sell the farm. But I would say that even less profound hallucinogens, such as cannabis, can be productive--and perhaps even more productive in some cases.
Araceli Cianna
Active Member
Some things are good in small doses, but bad when taken to excess. I think drugs/alcohol are like that. As they say a little wine is good for the belly. Alcohol is anti-septic and kills off harmful bacteria lurking (external and internal). I think I remember whiskey is good for eliminating parasites (my paranoid excuse to drink it lol). Drugs are the same. I'm studying herbalism, and I bought myself some cannabis and to me it feels like a stronger version of valerian (mood booster, aphrodisiac, sedative). In medicinal doses it does what it's supposed to do. Same with opiates. I take codeine for migraines. All these things have their purposes and uses to enhance our health and hence our body-mind-spirit connection, but too much of anything is a bad thing.
DennisTate
Active Member
Good question... .I know of cases where a drug trip did
set in motion a total change in life for the person who had it but.........
obviously that is a very dangerous way to induce a spiritual awakening.
The Trigger of Drugs: Larry Hagman's Near-Death Experiences
The Trigger of Hallucinogenic Drugs:
Larry Hagman's Near-Death Experiences
Larry Martin Hagman (1931--2012), www.larryhagman.com, was an actor best known for playing the ruthless oil baron, J. R. Ewing, in the 1980's television show "Dallas", and the astronaut Major Tony Nelson in the 1960's sitcom "I Dream of Jeannie." His television appearances also included guest roles on dozens of shows spanning from the late 1950s up until his death, and a reprisal of his signature role on the 2012 revival of Dallas. He also worked as a producer and director on television. Hagman was the son of actressMary Martin. He underwent a life-saving liver transplant in 1995. Although Hagman was a member of a 12-step program, he publicly advocated marijuana as a better alternative to alcohol. He died on November 23, 2012, from complications of acute myeloid leukemia. The following article was written by John L. Griffin, PhD for World University of Ojai, California about Larry Hagman's experiences with LSD and NDEs.
Larry Hagman's Life-Enhancing Near-Death Experiences
by John L. Griffin, Ph.D.
Actor Larry Hagman's perspective on life is the polar opposite from that of his famous character, J.R. Ewing, on the popular, long-running Dallas television series. He sums it up at the end of his recent autobiography when he states:
"The only answer is love."
Although he credits his solid marriage and his family for helping shape his love-centered worldview, he also believes that he has been positively transformed into a more compassionate, loving human being by his near-death -like experience or, rather, experiences.
An NDE is considered to be where someone "dies" - meaning the person would be considered clinically dead and without vital signs - but resuscitates and comes back to life. Research with people from various cultures has established that these experiences are usually truly life changing and that the NDErs often feel that they have a mission to be as loving and caring as possible. They want to be helpful and their methods of doing so are sometimes quite creative.
Larry believes he not only had one experience of this type - but two - and they have both been enormously life changing and enhancing for him. Both experiences contain classic NDE elements but they also share similarities with what I like to call Threshold-of-Death Experiences (TDE), more commonly known as Deathbed Visions (DBVs). These occur when a person is either approaching death or is just about to die. Concerns of the world are slipping away and innate psychic sensitivity comes to the fore so that visions are seen of what clearly appear to be the other world of the after-life. Sometimes other witnesses share these visions. These TDErs may be medicated with drugs but in most cases are not. The remarkable consistency of these experiences, established by research studies, provides one of several persuasive presentations of evidence in the online course I teach, Evidence of the After-life.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Unfortunately many of the points which you listed as cons, are not valid scientifically.
Detrimental affects of smoking can be shown, as that is something that harms us.
The psychoactive aspects of cannabis or any other psychedelic medicine should be dealt with in a spiritual way, and agree there is reason for concern, as they do allow access to realms of perception, that should have religious guidance to be understood properly.
Obviously there are cons, like anything that is done in excess; yet we really do have to reevaluate much of the info we've been brought up with, as there is so much anti-propaganda.
In my opinion.
The Surgeon General's Warning on Marijuana
I get my data from the CDC and the Surgeon General. It is what it is. The pros and the cons.