Alien Life: The Mockery of Jesus

[Neo Deist]

I enjoy studying astronomy and learning about the universe, even though we humans are mere infants when it comes to space exploration (via telescope or travel). I also firmly believe in life on other planets because let's face it; when something is so vast that light can travel trillions of miles each earth year, and has been doing so for billions of years and is just now reaching us from far away stars/galaxies, that boggles the mind as to how enormous the universe really is. It also lends to the concept that in something so immense, the likelihood that we are the only inhabited planet is astronomically small.

That leads to a problem for mainstream Christianity. If Jesus was born on earth and died for our sins here on earth, what about those other inhabited planets? Did they also have a "Jesus" at some point? Does his earthly sacrifice encompass the entire universe? Obviously those questions can't be answered with substantiated facts, only speculation.

A quote from renowned deist Thomas Paine: "...are we to suppose that every world in the boundless creation had an Eve, an apple, a serpent, and a redeemer? In this case the person who is irreverently called the Son of God, and sometimes God himself, would have nothing else to do than to travel from world to world, in an endless succession of deaths, with scarcely a momentary interval of life."

What one has to remember is that ancient man wrote about the world around them as they saw it. What they saw in the sky was the sun, moon, and little twinkling dots that later became known as stars. They did not know how big those objects were, how far away they were, or what they were. They did not have telescopes, spectrometers, or established sciences to help them in understanding the cosmos. Heck, many ancients used to think that natural phenomenon such as an eclipse or an earthquake happened because the god(s) were angry...we know better in this day and age.

So, what would happen to the Jesus story once alien civilizations were discovered? Would religion evolve? Would there be a mass exodus of believers? Would alien life make a mockery of Jesus?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So, what would happen to the Jesus story once alien civilizations were discovered? Would religion evolve? Would there be a mass exodus of believers? Would alien life make a mockery of Jesus?

I think much would depend on what religious beliefs, if any, alien civilisations turn out to have.

 

[HonestJoe]

We’ve already have examples of what happens when two cultures with different religions meet for the first time. If one culture is more powerful than the other, the weaker one’s religion (and wider culture) is largely or entirely wiped out (e.g. “pagan” Celts or pretty much any native culture under colonisation) and if the cultures are of similar strength, it generates long-running conflict (e.g. the Middle East for the last 1000 years or so).

Religions always evolve, though often slowly and with resistance to change, and any outside influence including newly discovered faiths can influence that one way or another.

How specific religions deal with the discovery of intelligent alien life would obviously depend on the nature of that life, their beliefs and understanding. Mainstream Christianity specifically has squeezed it’s way around all sorts of contradictions and controversies so I’m sure it’d find a way to account for aliens. Some of the extreme minorities might be of more concern as they could react with greater resistance or aggression. I’d expect the other major faiths would follow a similar pattern.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I was just thinking about this earlier. It poses a problem for the Trinity, imo. If other sapient lifeforms are "fallen", as well, why are a bunch of apes on this dirtball so privileged as to have the Creator incarnate as one of them? It's extremely anthropocentric.

Also, pre-Christian societies were more intelligent than we tend to give them credit as being.

 

[picnic]

The problem of human-centricity in Abrahamic religions exists without ET contact. Humans evolved over millions of years with different variations like neanderthals. Plus there are some very intelligent animals like parrots, cats, dolphins, etc. Soon we will have artificial intelligence that might be hard to distinguish from human intelligence.

But atheist aliens in starships would be an even more obvious problem.

 

[McBell]

Seems to me it would explain god absence....

 

[RedDragon94]

That leads to a problem for mainstream Christianity. If Jesus was born on earth and died for our sins here on earth, what about those other inhabited planets? Did they also have a "Jesus" at some point? Does his earthly sacrifice encompass the entire universe? Obviously those questions can't be answered with substantiated facts, only speculation.

Assuming that the aliens are religious... I imagine that their faith would be a lot like paganism, it depends on what their values are. If we both venerate the same symbols and values then I think it would prove paganism to be true.

So, what would happen to the Jesus story once alien civilizations were discovered? Would religion evolve? Would there be a mass exodus of believers? Would alien life make a mockery of Jesus?

Maybe people would say that Jesus was an alien, it seems cultic. Doesn't Scientology have something to do with aliens? Mainstream Christians would either ignore it or probably exit the church.

 

[RedDragon94]

I was just thinking about this earlier. It poses a problem for the Trinity, imo. If other sapient lifeforms are "fallen", as well, why are a bunch of apes on this dirtball so privileged as to have the Creator incarnate as one of them? It's extremely anthropocentric.

Also, pre-Christian societies were more intelligent than we tend to give them credit as being.

My theory is that Christianity would unravel if something like this happened.

 

[George-ananda]

So, what would happen to the Jesus story once alien civilizations were discovered? Would religion evolve? Would there be a mass exodus of believers? Would alien life make a mockery of Jesus?

This post is an example of what I call 'Bible-Thumping Atheists' (or deist in this case). They love to take the Bible they don't believe in and then concern themselves with dogma that doesn't square well with modern reason (the controversial 'Atonement' dogma in this case) and then extrapolate that to make Christianity sound ridiculous. I guess that is easy to do, but it still begs the question 'is Christ still real despite some errant dogma and the more primitive scientific understandings of people of ancient times'? I think that question is more interesting and I personally believe Christ was a great spiritual being and teacher.

 

[Neo Deist]

...I personally believe Christ was a great spiritual being and teacher.

As do I.

There goes your bible-thumping statement down the tubes!

 

[George-ananda]

There goes your bible-thumping statement down the tubes!

How so? You were discussing and then mocking the 'atonement' doctrine by expanding it to alien life just a short time ago in the OP.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But atheist aliens in starships would be an even more obvious problem.

It's quite possible that an advanced civilisation would have outgrown religion anyway.

 

[Etritonakin]

I enjoy studying astronomy and learning about the universe, even though we humans are mere infants when it comes to space exploration (via telescope or travel). I also firmly believe in life on other planets because let's face it; when something is so vast that light can travel trillions of miles each earth year, and has been doing so for billions of years and is just now reaching us from far away stars/galaxies, that boggles the mind as to how enormous the universe really is. It also lends to the concept that in something so immense, the likelihood that we are the only inhabited planet is astronomically small.

That leads to a problem for mainstream Christianity. If Jesus was born on earth and died for our sins here on earth, what about those other inhabited planets? Did they also have a "Jesus" at some point? Does his earthly sacrifice encompass the entire universe? Obviously those questions can't be answered with substantiated facts, only speculation.

A quote from renowned deist Thomas Paine: "...are we to suppose that every world in the boundless creation had an Eve, an apple, a serpent, and a redeemer? In this case the person who is irreverently called the Son of God, and sometimes God himself, would have nothing else to do than to travel from world to world, in an endless succession of deaths, with scarcely a momentary interval of life."

What one has to remember is that ancient man wrote about the world around them as they saw it. What they saw in the sky was the sun, moon, and little twinkling dots that later became known as stars. They did not know how big those objects were, how far away they were, or what they were. They did not have telescopes, spectrometers, or established sciences to help them in understanding the cosmos. Heck, many ancients used to think that natural phenomenon such as an eclipse or an earthquake happened because the god(s) were angry...we know better in this day and age.

So, what would happen to the Jesus story once alien civilizations were discovered? Would religion evolve? Would there be a mass exodus of believers? Would alien life make a mockery of Jesus?

If the universe is generally similar everywhere -and life on earth emerged as a result of natural evolution -and natural evolution happened only as a result of cause and effect from the Big Bang until now.....

Then it is likely that similar life exists on many worlds.

If life on earth is unique -caused by some intelligence to emerge on Earth first and alone -even by initiation of natural evolution, or if cause and effect from the Big Bang was such that it caused the specific chain of events necessary for evolution only on earth initially....

Then it would not be necessary that life existed elsewhere -though the potential would definitely exist.

Or........ Perhaps life exists elsewhere -in many places -but not necessarily under the same circumstances -or not subjected to the same circumstances or processes -which caused self-aware, creative beings such as humans on earth.

The bible does say that it has not entered into the minds of men the glory which will be experienced -and that the heavens were formed to be inhabited -and that the creation awaits liberation from decay, etc. by the children of God....

It also refers to intelligent, creative, self-aware beings other than men -angels, etc. -"living creatures" -but does not specify whether or not other planets are inhabited yet, as such, by beings similar to humans.

It does describe the seat of government of the universe being on Earth -and those in the first resurrection as the government under Christ -and so the Father -and others being governed -perhaps then governing throughout the universe themselves.

Endlessly being crucified and resurrected does not seem like a good idea -but the once -coupled with the experiences of those who will be resurrected as kings and priests -will have led to the creation of a government which makes it unnecessary (as it now seems to me) that others experience the same things as those who will be that government.

I have wondered what might be necessary if humans made immortal eventually created similar life forms. Would their be enough of a support system in place to bring them to perfection without our being crucified and allowing them to experience war, famine, disease, etc? Need it only happen once to create that support system? Would we see reason to create others such as ourselves -seeing there will be so many already?

It is said that of the increase of the government of Christ there will be no end, but I do not know exactly what that will mean.

It remains to be seen whether or not physical life exists elsewhere (unless it has already been determined -I cannot keep up with discoveries and advances) -and what sort of life it might be..... But given the timeline outlined in the bible (not including the exact day or hour of Christ's return and the beginning of the kingdom of God -but quite specific otherwise), we will know that God and Christ exist before we could find intelligent life on other planets.

Then we can ask Christ and God.

Perhaps we are to create life on other planets -perhaps life already exists -perhaps intelligent life already exists and we are to administer the government of God to benefit them.

I don't know.
It does specify that we were made a little lower than the angels for a time -and will eventually judge their affairs..... but how we might relate to other life forms which may or may not exists also remains to be seen.

 

[outhouse]

I enjoy studying astronomy and learning about the universe, even though we humans are mere infants when it comes to space exploration (via telescope or travel). I also firmly believe in life on other planets because let's face it; when something is so vast that light can travel trillions of miles each earth year, and has been doing so for billions of years and is just now reaching us from far away stars/galaxies, that boggles the mind as to how enormous the universe really is. It also lends to the concept that in something so immense, the likelihood that we are the only inhabited planet is astronomically small.

Agreed.

, what would happen to the Jesus story once alien civilizations were discovered?

Nothing.

Would religion evolve?

It is evolving now, just not fast enough.

Would there be a mass exodus of believers?

No.

People tend to remain with their beliefs no matter what evidence is provided. But we do get to their children, so the next generation tends to not fall for mythology as much as their parents.


Look at how many theist refuse factual evidence today. Yet they still believe in their mythology. Look at how many still think the earth is 6000 years old. Its sad as hell.

Would alien life make a mockery of Jesus?

No. The foundation of the story of Jesus, is of a man and his perceived sacrifice giving his life for the good of the people.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's quite possible that an advanced civilisation would have outgrown religion anyway.

...or have something we never even thought of before.

Maybe there's a religion where a messiah named Susej came to the planet to sacrifice his disciples so that he himself can be saved.

 

[gsa]

This post is an example of what I call 'Bible-Thumping Atheists' (or deist in this case). They love to take the Bible they don't believe in and then concern themselves with dogma that doesn't square well with modern reason (the controversial 'Atonement' dogma in this case) and then extrapolate that to make Christianity sound ridiculous. I guess that is easy to do, but it still begs the question 'is Christ still real despite some errant dogma and the more primitive scientific understandings of people of ancient times'? I think that question is more interesting and I personally believe Christ was a great spiritual being and teacher.

Well why is it so easy to do? Maybe because atonement as a doctrine only makes sense if you believe that the Earth and humanity are at the center of the universe, believe that both were created a few thousand years ago, and then you can safely ignore the realities uncovered by reason, including the vast spatial and temporal scale of the universe.

You can try to waive it off by calling it "errant dogma and the more primitive scientific understandings of people of ancient times," but however errant that dogma is, it remains a central tenet of Christianity based on the teachings of the institutions that represent a majority of Christians. And those were not primitive scientific beliefs, they were pre-scientific.

 

[George-ananda]

Well why is it so easy to do? Maybe because atonement as a doctrine only makes sense if you believe that the Earth and humanity are at the center of the universe, believe that both were created a few thousand years ago, and then you can safely ignore the realities uncovered by reason, including the vast spatial and temporal scale of the universe.

You can try to waive it off by calling it "errant dogma and the more primitive scientific understandings of people of ancient times," but however errant that dogma is, it remains a central tenet of Christianity based on the teachings of the institutions that represent a majority of Christians. And those were not primitive scientific beliefs, they were pre-scientific.

Well, this errant dogma can be dodged and symbolically explained away such as believing in the way of the Lord (not the historical figure). For example, even the current Pope says people of all religions and even atheists can go to heaven. So the 'central tenant of Christianity' can be interpreted even in ways that accord with modern wisdom. But the anti-Christian prefers to trumpet the most rigid and narrow interpretation. That's why my comment was critical of what I call "Bible Thumping Atheists' (or deist in the OP's case).

 

[Unification]

I enjoy studying astronomy and learning about the universe, even though we humans are mere infants when it comes to space exploration (via telescope or travel). I also firmly believe in life on other planets because let's face it; when something is so vast that light can travel trillions of miles each earth year, and has been doing so for billions of years and is just now reaching us from far away stars/galaxies, that boggles the mind as to how enormous the universe really is. It also lends to the concept that in something so immense, the likelihood that we are the only inhabited planet is astronomically small.

That leads to a problem for mainstream Christianity. If Jesus was born on earth and died for our sins here on earth, what about those other inhabited planets? Did they also have a "Jesus" at some point? Does his earthly sacrifice encompass the entire universe? Obviously those questions can't be answered with substantiated facts, only speculation.

A quote from renowned deist Thomas Paine: "...are we to suppose that every world in the boundless creation had an Eve, an apple, a serpent, and a redeemer? In this case the person who is irreverently called the Son of God, and sometimes God himself, would have nothing else to do than to travel from world to world, in an endless succession of deaths, with scarcely a momentary interval of life."

What one has to remember is that ancient man wrote about the world around them as they saw it. What they saw in the sky was the sun, moon, and little twinkling dots that later became known as stars. They did not know how big those objects were, how far away they were, or what they were. They did not have telescopes, spectrometers, or established sciences to help them in understanding the cosmos. Heck, many ancients used to think that natural phenomenon such as an eclipse or an earthquake happened because the god(s) were angry...we know better in this day and age.

So, what would happen to the Jesus story once alien civilizations were discovered? Would religion evolve? Would there be a mass exodus of believers? Would alien life make a mockery of Jesus?

As the tradition goes, and with its common interpretation, Jesus would be sort of an alien coming from the universe(heaven) down to planet Earth. Heaven would be exoteric on another planet, another plane, or in another universe somewhere composed of more life/ aliens.

The common interpretation of heaven would have to mean that "Christians" believe in life/aliens elsewhere.

The mockery of one belief/faith for another belief/faith that aliens/life elsewhere exist.

Not only would mainstream have to be true, aliens/other life elsewhere would have to be true, and aliens/other life elsewhere would have to be what is commonly called "religious" or "not religious." Just too many assumptions, beliefs, and fantasy simultaneously but that's the wonderful thing, the mind can think, imagine, reason, and be free to do such.

I wouldn't think that much would change, many are too far gone at the point of no return in this life to think beyond a confined box, no matter what is revealed. There would be ways to incorporate any justification of anything at all costs to preserve ones habitat of beliefs.

 

[Unification]

Well why is it so easy to do? Maybe because atonement as a doctrine only makes sense if you believe that the Earth and humanity are at the center of the universe, believe that both were created a few thousand years ago, and then you can safely ignore the realities uncovered by reason, including the vast spatial and temporal scale of the universe.

You can try to waive it off by calling it "errant dogma and the more primitive scientific understandings of people of ancient times," but however errant that dogma is, it remains a central tenet of Christianity based on the teachings of the institutions that represent a majority of Christians. And those were not primitive scientific beliefs, they were pre-scientific.

Yes, more of an at-ONE-ment sort of way with the universe rather than atonement doctrine.

 

[gsa]

Well, this errant dogma can be dodged and symbolically explained away such as believing in the way of the Lord (not the historical figure). For example, even the current Pope says people of all religions and even atheists can go to heaven. So the 'central tenant of Christianity' can be interpreted even in ways that accord with modern wisdom. But the anti-Christian prefers to trumpet the most rigid and narrow interpretation. That's why my comment was critical of what I call "Bible Thumping Atheists' (or deist in the OP's case).

Except Pope Francis did not say Jesus would save atheists, he said that he had redeemed them, and everyone, through his sacrifice. But the Catholic doctrine of redemption is not the same as the Catholic doctrine of salvation, and he did not announce a major change in Catholic doctrine. Just because you have been redeemed, does not mean that you have been saved. The former is collectively applied to the human race, the latter is an individual gift of grace that can be rejected.

While you claim that the "anti-Christian prefers to trumpet the most rigid and narrow interpretation," the fact is that any rational observer of Catholic doctrine would apply that interpretation. The Catholic church teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm#1256):

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.
1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

See that? Unbaptized dead babies just have to rely on God's mercy. Including an aborted fetus. Whether or not dead unbaptized babies go to heaven or hell (or some benign liminal state known as limbo) is one big mystery.

Unfortunately, many critics of particular religions are far more informed about the actual tenets of the religion than many adherents.