Aliens and theism

[amorphous_constellation]

The bible was written about the situation on Earth, by people with no conception of a greater habitable cosmos.

I think this is where debate may enter into the picture - the first part of this statement is more true than the second part, it might be argued. For the bible and various myths seem to focus on the situation here as only a relative situation, among some greater situational whole. Otherwise why is the earth just a link to other worlds, heavens and hells and other realms above or below, or in any other direction. And as to the second part, I'd be more cautious about tracking the source of the revelation. If extraterrestrials did want to communicate with us, and guide us, perhaps they already did: by originally engineering the religions. And if they didn't make that so explicitly known, (though a dead giveaway might be that myths are inhabited by gods, from the sky) then perhaps they have their own reasons for that, and / or maybe it was 'hidden' as an aid to human self-actualization. Because maybe, they saw that we would feel better about ourselves if we thought we had a hand in it

 

[JoshuaTree]

Why should they not have a soul?

Nothing in Christianity claims the human race is exclusive in the whole universe. The bible was written about the situation on Earth, by people with no conception of a greater habitable cosmos. So it can't tell us anything directly about that. But if we apply the ideas, then it is quite possible that alien races may also be made in God's image, with souls and a relationship with God similar to what the bible describes for humanity. Why not? That's what C S Lewis explores in some of his novels.

You will need to explain why that question is relevant to this discussion.

Sure. I was thinking that the Catholic position on evolution was that the church was in agreement with science on evolution, except for man, man's creation was literally Adam and eve. Given the church is in support of science for evolution, minus man, it also seems to follow the church is in support of aliens if the science supports it. If animals and aliens are both products of natural selection rather than divine creation seems both would share the same fate on souls or not.

Hope I didn't offend you or out of line on my comment, if so, apologies.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Given the church is in support of science for evolution, minus man, it also seems to follow the church is in support of aliens if the science supports it. If animals and aliens are both products of natural selection rather than divine creation seems both would share the same fate on souls or not.

And a big problem might occur with that though, if the aliens revealed to us that they had a hand in what happened here.. If earth's life is built on scientific output from elsewhere, and they could show all the footage and the schematics, then their science is supporting everything that happens here, not the other way around. If they literally show you how they cultivated man out of some other primate 100,000 years ago, or how they might have farmed dinosaurs for millions of years, then no religion would really have anything to say about any of that.

 

[exchemist]

Sure. I was thinking that the Catholic position on evolution was that the church was in agreement with science on evolution, except for man, man's creation was literally Adam and eve. Given the church is in support of science for evolution, minus man, it also seems to follow the church is in support of aliens if the science supports it. If animals and aliens are both products of natural selection rather than divine creation seems both would share the same fate on souls or not.

Hope I didn't offend you or out of line on my comment, if so, apologies.

Not in the least, I just couldn't see the connection.

Be careful with Catholic teaching on the evolution of Man. The church completely accepts that Man too evolved, just as the other animals. The only thing is just that it adds that bit about Man being infused with a soul at some point. (I think it's a bit bogus, because it seems plain there was no first couple of "true" man and woman: evolution works via whole populations. There can't have been a literal Adam and Eve, from whom we are all descended. But it will take the church a couple more centuries to sort that out. I'm sure the Jesuits will be on the case as we speak)

But back to the aliens, if there are other alien races with similar intellectual and moral attributes to Man's, who is to say they too may not have been endowed by the Creator with a soul in a similar way?

 

[JoshuaTree]

Not in the least, I just couldn't see the connection.

Be careful with Catholic teaching on the evolution of Man. The church completely accepts that Man too evolved, just as the other animals. The only thing is just that it adds that bit about Man being infused with a soul at some point. (I think it's a bit bogus, because it seems plain there was no first couple of "true" man and woman: evolution works via whole populations. There can't have been a literal Adam and Eve, from whom we are all descended. But it will take the church a couple more centuries to sort that out. I'm sure the Jesuits will be on the case as we speak)

But back to the aliens, if there are other alien races with similar intellectual and moral attributes to Man's, who is to say they too may not have been endowed by the Creator with a soul in a similar way?

I think the notion of soul comes about on the literal creation of man, animals or aliens weren't mentioned, but if aliens have their own form of the bible im gonna guess first contact won't go well. I realize the word soul is very translation dependent.

Genesis 2:7
King James Version

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh, well I read in your post that you seemed to be concerned about the source of what reveals / inspires

Then you misread my post. For some strata of theists the terms "reveal" and "inspire" carries a connotation which is, in my opinion, wholly unwarranted.

 

[GardenLady]

Why don't animals have souls?

Because some humans need to think we are a special creation, and apparently, if animals have souls we are less special.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Because some humans need to think we are a special creation, and apparently, if animals have souls we are less special.

Solomon said it best...

Ecclesiastes 3:21
New King James Version

21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

 

[Glaurung]

There's nothing in Christian doctrine that I see as positively precluding the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life. And yet, if such life were confirmed to exist I think it would make Christianity positively unlikely. Human souls and their eternal destinies is the purpose of this universe. The existence of extraterrestrial life throws a wrench into the Christian idea of God and how he relates to the human drama.

Seeing this, there is the idea in some Christian circles that the final deception mentioned in scripture will be the supposed revelation of intelligent extraterrestrial life, who will claim to be our creators. In reality it will be the final battle charge of the fallen angels before the final judgment. And seeing how our supposed alien creators have treated us given the abduction phenomenon, the notion that aliens are but a demonic disguise is not a notion that I can dismiss out of hand.

 

[blü 2]

This may have come up before, but all this sort of thing was explored by C S Lewis, who was a committed Anglican. Essentially the answer is that neither is a problem - unless, I suppose, you are one of these narrow-minded bible-belt literalists, which he was far from being.

Certainly, nothing in Christianity rules out other sentient life elsewhere, nor does it rule out such life being visited by God-made-alien in just the same way as Jesus is God-made-Man. In fact the Narnia books explore exactly that, though in a magical rather than sci-fi setting. Aslan is obviously Christ, but in the form of a lion, as befits a world of talking animals. And in "Out of the Silent Planet", which is more sci-fi, Lewis explores the idea of an alien race that has not experienced the Fall.

Yes, good points.

In the last book of Lewis' three "Silent Planet" novels, "That Hideous Strength", the moral problems are resolved in a way that may reflect Lewis's moral traumas from WW2 ─ that is, the hero must close with the figure of Evil and literally kill him, hand to hand. There is no concept of exorcism, forgiveness, mercy ─ just kill the SOB.

That always struck me as too simple-minded for the context.

 

[Clara Tea]

I'm not obsessed with aliens, honest.

In the atheists and aliens thread I asked whether finding a civilisation that had prior knowledge and belief in Jesus would increase or decrease the likelihood that God exists.

Here I'm wondering, as I'm sure others have before, would the existence of aliens at all present a significant problem for people who believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts are revealed/inspired by God?

Most astronomers believe that there is life on other worlds.

If so, could aliens have given Moses the 10 commandments?

Do the various alien images of South American art (space suits) indicate that aliens visited earth?

Maybe aliens introduced the idea of religion?

Maybe Jesus was an alien? Normal humans don't walk on water nor cure the sick.

 

[Clara Tea]

given the abduction phenomenon, the notion that aliens are but a demonic disguise is not a notion that I can dismiss out of hand.

Those are antennae, not horns.

 

[firedragon]

I'm not obsessed with aliens, honest.

In the atheists and aliens thread I asked whether finding a civilisation that had prior knowledge and belief in Jesus would increase or decrease the likelihood that God exists.

Here I'm wondering, as I'm sure others have before, would the existence of aliens at all present a significant problem for people who believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts are revealed/inspired by God?

I cannot think a single reason why it would be a problem. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[Suave]

I'm not obsessed with aliens, honest.

In the atheists and aliens thread I asked whether finding a civilisation that had prior knowledge and belief in Jesus would increase or decrease the likelihood that God exists.

Here I'm wondering, as I'm sure others have before, would the existence of aliens at all present a significant problem for people who believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts are revealed/inspired by God?

According to the Talmud, God spends his night flying throughout 18,000 worlds.

Are There Aliens in the Torah? - Atlanta Jewish Times

And Islam insists that “all things in the heavens and on the Earth” are Allah’s, as the Koran says, implying that his rule extends well beyond one tiny plane.

 

[1213]

...Here I'm wondering, as I'm sure others have before, would the existence of aliens at all present a significant problem for people who believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts are revealed/inspired by God?

I don’t think it would, Bible doesn’t say no life exists outside this planet and actually it speaks of angels that are beings that could be interpreted as “aliens”.

 

[Clara Tea]

parrot the Church.

Those are the "poly" theists. The cracker bill (flesh of Jesus) was enormous.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, and certainly not as big as the problem attendant to talk of "revealed/inspired by." I was inspired by my parents who, among other things, revealed to me both the Encyclopedia Britannica and Britannica Jr.

Yeah, my father revealed to me the Penguin Classic on mythologies of the world. He is no more (I am likely to follow him soon), but while I live I am thankful to him.

Here I'm wondering, as I'm sure others have before, would the existence of aliens at all present a significant problem for people who believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts are revealed/inspired by God?

With 100 billion visible galaxies, billions upon billions of stars and trillions upon trillions of planets, there is certainly life, even intelligent life who might have their own religions. Hinduism has no problem with it.

And contact with aliens is just impossible. The distances are too great.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm not obsessed with aliens, honest.

In the atheists and aliens thread I asked whether finding a civilisation that had prior knowledge and belief in Jesus would increase or decrease the likelihood that God exists.

Here I'm wondering, as I'm sure others have before, would the existence of aliens at all present a significant problem for people who believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts are revealed/inspired by God?

For certain denominations, it might, depending on what kind of wacky literalist interpretation of their mythology they follow.

 

[leroy]

Here I'm wondering, as I'm sure others have before, would the existence of aliens at all present a significant problem for people who believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts are revealed/inspired by God?

I would say that the issue is theologically neutral, finding aliens wont decrease or decrease the probability that God exists. or that christianity is true.

I mean the truth of Christianity is based largely on the claim that Jesus rose from the dead, finding aliens will not make this even more likely nor less likely to be true

 

[Yerda]

I would say that the issue is theologically neutral, finding aliens wont decrease or decrease the probability that God exists. or that christianity is true.

I mean the truth of Christianity is based largely on the claim that Jesus rose from the dead, finding aliens will not make this even more likely nor less likely to be true

Would you be wondering why nobody thought to mention it in the Bible?