All laws abolished, by Jesus, or otherwise

[pearl]

Why don't you go back read Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19 again.

What we are left with in Mt's Sermon on the Mount is the Torah of the Messiah.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What we are left with in Mt's Sermon on the Mount is the Torah of the Messiah.

When Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 5:1-16.

Notice what Jesus said in Chapter 5,
Verse 19--"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments"

What least commandments?

Those commandments that Jesus just gave in Verse's 3 thru 16.

 

[pearl]

Those commandments that Jesus just gave in Verse's 3 thru 16.

What you are quoting are the Beatitudes. Teaching on the law begins with verse 17.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What you are quoting are the Beatitudes. Teaching on the law begins with verse 17.

That is man's teachings that calls them the Beatitudes. You will not find no where in Verse's 3 thru 16 the word ( Beatitudes)

What Jesus gave is the law of the kingdom of heaven. In Verse's 3 thru 16.

 

[pearl]

What Jesus gave is the law of the kingdom of heaven. In Verse's 3 thru 16.

beatitude, a blessing, an entirely free gift of God.

 

[herushura]

Jesus abolished the Law, that he himself as his own father gave to Moses?

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus abolished the Law, that he himself as his own father gave to Moses?

No, Jesus said He came to fulfill them, and all laws were clearly not abolished according to tradition, and imo the Church of God, /that is the biblical name of the Jesus adherent church. Therefore an idea of abolishing all laws was never intended, and later churches simply espoused that idea in order to gain more adherents, /converts from paganism, imo.

 

[Desert Snake]

To answer this question, in the book of Matthew chapter 5:17 Jesus saying that he has not come to destroy the law or the prophets.
Ok so the question is, what law is Jesus referring to?

Most people if not alot people are being taught that this law is the Ten Commandment law.
Unto which is Not true at all.

Rather than people back up to the beginning of a chapter and pick up what the subject and Article is about. They just run with what they are taught.

Note it's not at all what they are being taught.

Ok with this said.

Let's go back to the beginning of Matthew chapter 5.
Note from Verse 1 thru Verse 16, that Jesus has given to the people the laws of the kingdom of heaven.

Which People are taught to jump over these Verse's. And go right to verse 17-19.

Note in Verse 19 Jesus said, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments.

What lease Commandments?, The ones Jesus just gave you Verse's 3-16.

You see when Jesus said Whosoever therefore shall break one these least commandments, what Jesus is doing, is pointing you back to those Verse's 3 thru 16.
That if a person breaks one of (these) least commandments. Verse's 3 thru 16.

And teach men so, shall be called lease in the kingdom of heaven.

There are other laws in the O.T.
Some laws are clearly abolished, however it does not state that all laws are abolished, hence the logical conclusion that all O.T. aren't abolished; some are.

Merely because fulfill is used, does not mean that every law is simply therefore not followed in the Covenant, /continuation covenant.

Why even have the O. T. If a person thinks that all laws are no longer followed?
Traditionally, the N. T. is read in accordance with the O.T., not as a counter to it.

If the laws were no longer followed, period, then why the reference to certain laws, in the early church?
They still, //the early church, differentiated between 'gentiles', and Jesus adherents; if there are no laws, why/how, would they even differentiate between practices, aside from belief in Jesus?
Clearly they were following laws!
*There were different laws, or traditions, because there were different traditions in Israel.

*note Hell belief differences in Christian tradition, and in what became Judaism. Similar but different Hell belief.

 

[Desert Snake]

syncretic,
Remember, Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the Law, but to Fulfill it, Matthew 5:17. Also consider the next verse, where Jesus said that none of the Law would pass away, UNTIL all things were accomplished, Matthew 5:18. Jesus would fulfill all the things in the Mosaic Law Covenant before he would die, then the Mosaic Law Covenant would be Superceded by The New Covenant, that Jesus instituted on the night before his death, Luke 24:44, 22:14-21, 1Corinthians 11:23-27, Hebrews 8:6-13. The New Covenant was much better than the Mosaic Covenant, because it was based on Jesus precious blood, the Mosaic Covenant on the blood of goats and bulls, Hebrews 9:11-15. Everyone under the Mosaic Law Covenant was under the Curse of sin and death, Jesus removed this Curse, Galatians 3:7-14.
Another very important point, the New Covenant covered all the sins that we could not be forgiven from under the Mosaic Covenant, Acts 13:29-39.
This New Covenant was prophesied by Jeremiah, it was never to be a permanent Covenant, but only until Jesus came, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Galatians 3:19-25.

You must mean the 'old covenant', was never intended as permanent?
There is only one covenant.

Hebrews 10:7-10


The laws and the Covenant are two different things.

 

[Desert Snake]

It really doesn't matter what day you may keep, Whether it be the 7th day sabbath or the Christian 1st day of the week sunday sabbath ?

If you not entering God's rest, keeping a day is useless.

Look back at the time when Moses and Israel were out in the wilderness for 40 yrs
They were keeping the 7th day sabbath.

Notice what God had to say --"Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway error in their heart, and they have not known my ways" Heb 3:10

Just because Israel was in the keeping the 7th day sabbath, they still didn't know God's ways.


Look what God has to say next --"So I swear in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest" Heb 3:11

Just because Israel was keeping the 7th day sabbath for 40 yrs, They Still were not entering God's rest.

Therefore just because what ever day you may keep does not mean your entering God's rest.

As did Israel 40 yrs was keeping the 7th day sabbath, But still were not entering God's rest.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:1.

Note ( entering into his rest )

"For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not Afterward have spoken of another day" Heb 4:8.

Note that Jesus never spoken of another day, Why ?
Because people are called to rest in Christ Jesus.
"Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Matthew 11:28.

I actually agree on Sabbath liberalness, merely because the disciples picked grains on the sabbath.
That being said, nothing against a strict sabbath, either, personally.
Sunday is actually the traditional Xian sabbath day, so there is actually a noted sabbath day.

 

[Desert Snake]

Remember when Michael disputes the body of Moses with the devil, that's because Jesus said to only follow his own laws.

The laws are different.


This doesn't mean that there are no laws from the O.T.

 

[Desert Snake]

If all the laws were abolished, why would the Apostle Paul state that if a person practices circumcision, they are then obligated to follow the entire law? /this means obligated to follow all the previous laws/.

Galatians 5:3

That would be a bizarre statement, if all laws were abolished.
Clearly Jesus was differentiating between laws.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I actually agree on Sabbath liberalness, merely because the disciples picked grains on the sabbath.
That being said, nothing against a strict sabbath, either, personally.
Sunday is actually the traditional Xian sabbath day, so there is actually a noted sabbath day.

Look while Jesus was here on earth, people of Israel were still under the law, only until Jesus was nailed to the cross, that now we are no longer under the law.

But this is not the question.

The question at hand is Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19.

In Verse 17 Jesus said, that he has not come to destroy the law or the prophets"

In Verse 19 we find Jesus saying, Whosoever therefore shall break one these least commandments"


What least Commandments?

The ones he just gave us back in
Verse's 3 thru 16. If a person breaks one of these least commandments.

 

[Faithofchristian]

If all the laws were abolished, why would the Apostle Paul state that if a person practices circumcision, they are then obligated to follow the entire law? /this means obligated to follow all the previous laws/.

Galatians 5:3

That would be a bizarre statement, if all laws were abolished.
Clearly Jesus was differentiating between laws.

That is not what that means.

It means if a person is Circumcised, then they are to keep the whole law of Circumcision.

Do you understand what the law of Circumcision consist of ?

What does it mean, to keep the whole law of Circumcision ?

 

[Desert Snake]

That is not what that means.

It means if a person is Circumcised, then they are to keep the whole law of Circumcision.

Do you understand what the law of Circumcision consist of ?

What does it mean, to keep the whole law of Circumcision ?

No, of course that is what that means.

The context is of some Christians at the time, practicing circumcision, and Paul is saying that by doing so, they are going against the benefit of Jesus adherence. That is why when they practice circumcision, Jesus stops benefiting them.

Galatians 5:2

If you think it means something else, present your argument, theory.

 

[Desert Snake]

Look while Jesus was here on earth, people of Israel were still under the law, only until Jesus was nailed to the cross, that now we are no longer under the law.

But this is not the question.

The question at hand is Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 19.

In Verse 17 Jesus said, that he has not come to destroy the law or the prophets"

In Verse 19 we find Jesus saying, Whosoever therefore shall break one these least commandments"


What least Commandments?

The ones he just gave us back in
Verse's 3 thru 16. If a person breaks one of these least commandments.

The law includes the Ten Commandments. Why would it not?

Merely because Jesus says to follow those specific commandments, does not mean that no other laws/rules are to be followed.

The N.T. basically outlines the general Christian rules, and law allowances, and tradition does as well; however the law is different from the Covenant, so a new or actually modified Covenant, isn't the same as the law, which simply means the general laws, everything inclusive.

The laws are modified, in jesus adherence, not abolished; hence Jesus stating that He was not there to abolish the law.

 

[Faithofchristian]

No, of course that is what that means.

The context is of some Christians at the time, practicing circumcision, and Paul is saying that by doing so, they are going against the benefit of Jesus adherence. That is why when they practice circumcision, Jesus stops benefiting them.

Galatians 5:2

If you think it means something else, present your argument, theory.

It simply means, that if a person is Circumcised they are bound to keep,
the whole law of Circumcision.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The law includes the Ten Commandments. Why would it not?

Merely because Jesus says to follow those specific commandments, does not mean that no other laws/rules are to be followed.

The N.T. basically outlines the general Christian rules, and law allowances, and tradition does as well; however the law is different from the Covenant, so a new or actually modified Covenant, isn't the same as the law, which simply means the general laws, everything inclusive.

The laws are modified, in jesus adherence, not abolished; hence Jesus stating that He was not there to abolish the law.

Hey look, when Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 I have not come to destroy the law or the prophets.

Then in Verse 19 Jesus said "Whosoever therefore shall break one these least commandments"

What least commandments?

The ones Jesus just gave back in Matthew Chapter 5 Verse's 3 thru 16.

Verse's 3 thru 16 are those least commandments that Jesus is referring to.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Christ Jesus never Abolish the law, Christ Jesus fulfilled the law, thereby bring the law to an end.
But never Abolish the law, only fulfilled the law.
Like the sacrificial lamb offering, Christ Jesus didn't abolish the sacrificial lamb offering.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the Sacrificial lamb offering, by being the true Lamb of God.

Thereby bringing the Sacrificial lamb offering to an end.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Most people are taught that of
Matthew 5:17 As being the 10 Commandment law.
But yet there is no where from Verse 1 to Verse 17, That Jesus made any mentioning about the 10 Commandment law?