All muslims believe in Jesus

[Caladan]

Is there a need for them? Those teachings are there for all to see. To Muslims Jesus was the Messiah, commenting on the Torah and correcting misunderstandings that had developed about the meaning of it. Jesus revealed teaching is called the Injil. The Holy Quran is the next revealed work after Jesus' Injil.(Gospel - but not 'the Gospels') The revelation to Jesus probably still exists but is muddled up with non-revealed work.
The Holy Quran exits to correct misunderstandings which had crept into the concepts and teachings of earlier prophets and the religions which sprang from them. Stories of the older prophets are there to teach what happened in the past and as a warning that it will happen again.
The beauty of Jesus teachings is that it brought back the spiritual into what had become ritualistic. The next Messiah will do the same.

How many Muslims are familiar with the Sermon on the Mount? with the narratives of the gospels? None of the Muslims I discussed this subject with had any background or even basic understanding or knowledge about Jesus, his disciples, or the stories of the New Testament.
I read the Qur'an, and I read the New Testament. The Qur'an is by no means a completion or a substitute for those who wish to get to know the sources about the life, actions, and sayings of Jesus.

 

[beenie]

How many Muslims are familiar with the Sermon on the Mount? with the narratives of the gospels?

My guess is a very, very select few.

None of the Muslims I discussed this subject with had any background or even basic understanding or knowledge about Jesus, his disciples, or the stories of the New Testament.

Exactly, which is why I said earlier in this thread that it's an insult to people who "believe" in Jesus to say that Muslims "believe" in him too. Respect him? Yes. Believe in him? No.

Not once in all my years have I heard one Imam tell Muslims to go by the word of Jesus.

I read the Qur'an, and I read the New Testament. The Qur'an is by no means a completion or a substitute for those who wish to get to know the sources about the life, actions, and sayings of Jesus.

... and that's why you are able to see the difference, Dan. :yes: See, I've read the OT, NT, and the Scriptures, and of course, the Quran -- and I can clearly see the difference between respecting Jesus as a prophet and regarding him as a all-around good guy, and actually "believing" in him. It's time other Muslims recognize this as well and stop insulting those who actually do believe in Jesus.

 

[Caladan]

... and that's why you are able to see the difference, Dan. :yes: See, I've read the OT, NT, and the Scriptures, and of course, the Quran -- and I can clearly see the difference between respecting Jesus as a prophet and regarding him as a all-around good guy, and actually "believing" in him. It's time other Muslims recognize this as well and stop insulting those who actually do believe in Jesus.

All good points. There seems to be an attempt to wrap a Jesus package with an Islamic stamp on it. It's like a fast food dogma.
It seems to be enough to say that Islam is inclusive of all prophets, but you don't really need to read the Book of Jeremiah, the Book of Isaiah, or the Book of Ezekiel to understand what they actually said.
Likewise, Jesus is a gem of Islam, but no one really expects anyone to read about his dialogues with other Jews, Romans, or Samaritans.

 

[seeking4truth]

I have studied the Quran and the Bible in detail. There is enormous importance in the words of Jesus.
I wish everyone would read them more but you should not compare the Quran with the New Testament. NT is more like Haddith, ie. memories and recollections of Jesus teachings.

The Quran should not be compared to the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was the Messiah, a different role from Moses and Muhammad. The Quran is the 'updated' Torah, with details of previous prophets and their communities to show where they went wrong so as to avoid the same mistakes again.

I think that Jesus and understanding his true status is uniquely important since it is that which divides the descendents of Abraham from each other. Jews did not accept Jesus as Messiah, Christians did but changed his status to that of co-equal with God, Muslims accept him as a prophet, a messiah for the Jews and await his return as Messiah again.
It is a truely fascinating story and one which is worth a good deal of research.

 

[Muffled]

We don't belief in Jesus(pbuh) the same way it wouldn't make no sense to do so it would be directly conflicting our religious ideas. Something to point out is that many Christians have different ideas about Jesus(pbuh) and so do the scriptures in the Bible itself.

But there are also many comparision it just depends on which verses you pick from the Bible regarding the Jesus(pbuh). The Quran and Bible cant be compared the Bible is more a Biography then a revelation itself (With all respect) in comparision with the Quran.

I believe the differences are due to misintepretation and an irrational dismissal of the Bible by Muslims. I believe the Qu'ran and Bible are in harmony in reference to Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

do all jesus followers believe in Allah???

Welcome to RF.

I believe many Christians teach that Allah is not Jehovah. I for one believe that He is.

 

[ouzari]

While Muslims hold Jesus in a very high regard, not once, in any sermon that I've attended, have I heard the Imam instruct us to follow his teachings one iota. Whenever an example is given as to our behavior and/or manners, etc., ONLY Muhammad is mentioned.

Please don't insult Christians by claiming that Muslims believe in Jesus to the same extent (on anywhere near it), as Christians, and expect them to believe you.

and what about these verses in our prayer:
"(136) Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma´il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

 

[ouzari]

Jesus' deity is more than what Muslims believe in Him.
He once spoke that: 'I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me, If ANOTHER comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you BELIEVE when you receive glory from ONE another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?'

(116) And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah´?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
(117) "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, ´worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord´; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

 

[ouzari]

My guess is a very, very select few.



Exactly, which is why I said earlier in this thread that it's an insult to people who "believe" in Jesus to say that Muslims "believe" in him too. Respect him? Yes. Believe in him? No.

Not once in all my years have I heard one Imam tell Muslims to go by the word of Jesus.



... and that's why you are able to see the difference, Dan. :yes: See, I've read the OT, NT, and the Scriptures, and of course, the Quran -- and I can clearly see the difference between respecting Jesus as a prophet and regarding him as a all-around good guy, and actually "believing" in him. It's time other Muslims recognize this as well and stop insulting those who actually do believe in Jesus.

are you sure you are muslim, you seem to know more about the bible than the quran , have you ever read the quran, its known in islam that if you don't believe in jesus (as a prophet of course) then you are not accepted as a muslim

(285) The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

 

[tumbleweed41]

are you sure you are muslim, ...

Are you?

 

[ouzari]

Are you?

Of course i am!!

 

[Dingbat]

Of course i am!!

What gives you the right to call someone not a Muslim? I thought it was Allah to judge the intent of a person not you at Judgement. Should we add an addendum to the Holy Qu'ran? Surely you are not making yourself equal to Allah for that would be the gravest of sins.

 

[Desert Snake]

What gives you the right to call someone not a Muslim? I thought it was Allah to judge the intent of a person not you at Judgement. Should we add an addendum to the Holy Qu'ran? Surely you are not making yourself equal to Allah for that would be the gravest of sins.

I read somewhere that everyone is a Muslim, it's just a matter of 'reverting' to Islam as opposed to converting. Do you hold this view?

 

[Dingbat]

I read somewhere that everyone is a Muslim, it's just a matter of 'reverting' to Islam as opposed to converting. Do you hold this view?

Muslim as in submits to God? I would say yes everyone is born with an innate spiritual side. Is everyone born a Muslim literally? No obviously not nor have I seen any evidence of children having an understanding of doing things like Salat, ablutions, or a need to go on the Hajj. From a philosophical perspective I agree with the sentiment from a literal standpoint though I do not. I believe humanity in all its various ways worships the same divinity but recognizes such divinity with many different names, ideas, and rituals.

 

[Desert Snake]

Muslim as in submits to God? I would say yes everyone is born with an innate spiritual side. Is everyone born a Muslim literally? No obviously not nor have I seen any evidence of children having an understanding of doing things like Salat, ablutions, or a need to go on the Hajj. From a philosophical perspective I agree with the sentiment from a literal standpoint though I do not. I believe humanity in all its various ways worships the same divinity but recognizes such divinity with many different names, ideas, and rituals.

Ah. Yes I think the statement was made in somewhat of a literal sense, but obviously without ablutions, visiting the Haj.

 

[ouzari]

Muslim as in submits to God? I would say yes everyone is born with an innate spiritual side. Is everyone born a Muslim literally? No obviously not nor have I seen any evidence of children having an understanding of doing things like Salat, ablutions, or a need to go on the Hajj. From a philosophical perspective I agree with the sentiment from a literal standpoint though I do not. I believe humanity in all its various ways worships the same divinity but recognizes such divinity with many different names, ideas, and rituals.

Everyone is born Muslim means that he believe and submit to his creator, but salaat (prayer) and other actions of worship are legislation given by the prophets (following the message of god), if we were born knowing these legislation, there would be no need for prophets, but ,as you said, the innate spiritual side of submitting to god if to be ready to accept these legislation

 

[YmirGF]

Ah. Yes I think the statement was made in somewhat of a literal sense, but obviously without ablutions, visiting the Haj.

I think the real point here is that the sentiment can be expressed by any religious group. We are all born Christians, we are all born Buddhists, but it is our actions that create layers between our experience and innate nature. That said, I've always found the suggestion that "we are all Muslims" when born to be somewhat of an over-reach and borderline offensive. The veiled statement means that "we are born Muslims" but our parents teach us and our own actions remove us from our inherent nature.

For me, that just doesn't cut the mustard, due to the fact that my own experience of inner reality and my innate nature, if you will, has led me directly away from indoctrination and religious practice, in general. At this stage of my inner evolution, I can no longer even seriously consider attending to any religion whatsoever and equally oddly, god no longer holds any interest. In those terms, god has become a derelict idea tossed on the scrapheap of dead ideas.

But... getting back to the OP, Yes, Muslims do make belief in the historic personage of Jesus as an article of faith. That much is clearly understood. However, it is very misleading to say they believe in Jesus in the same sense that the vast majority of Christians believe in Jesus, as the Son of God and the Savior of Mankind... etc...

 

[FearGod]

i think everything is submitted to god naturally but for humans they got the freewill to choose whether to accept or to refuse god but i think the child doesn't posses such free will once born.

Watch the video for one slaughter houses in GB showing how the lamb is naturally submitted to the word of god (this video was intended for teaching the halal slaughtering and it's effect on lambs)

[youtube]dU3O5rykwe4[/youtube]
Mercy Halal Islamic Slaughter Part 1.mp4 - YouTube

 

[Desert Snake]

But... getting back to the OP, Yes, Muslims do make belief in the historic personage of Jesus as an article of faith. That much is clearly understood. However, it is very misleading to say they believe in Jesus in the same sense that the vast majority of Christians believe in Jesus, as the Son of God and the Savior of Mankind... etc...

Exactly. Even though Christians use terms such as those, Jesus, for most Christians is God. If He wasn't why would so many Christians leave out the OT from their faith. He's certainly not considered by most Christians to be in the "prophet" category.

 

[Pastek]

Exactly. Even though Christians use terms such as those, Jesus, for most Christians is God. If He wasn't why would so many Christians leave out the OT from their faith. He's certainly not considered by most Christians to be in the "prophet" category.

Are you sure ?

I thought that the majority believed he was the son of God, not God.