The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
or catchy. All I was doing here was sharing my personal views, and I think sharing my views is still well worth sharing anyway. Again, it would be like a person writing in his personal journal, and sharing it.
For example, a person can write an extensive essay, which includes a Q&A Section on his personal views of Christianity, and how he disagrees with the doctrine of hell. Another example would be someone who writes an extensive essay that talks about how he disagrees with the standards of others, which say that homosexuality is wrong.
Other Person's Response: The theme in the intro of Symphony No. 5 by Beethoven is not great. It's just sounds. The greatness of the Allegro con brio is how he uses this theme. If you learn music, you hear how he twists it through the first part. That's great music.
If you wish to create music for others, research what they like. Not doing that is disrespect. If you want to sell anything you make yourself, make what people want. If somebody hired you to make a metal tune for them, and you give them something else, you won't get paid, and your not a good composer. Not even a decent one.
If you show your music to others, the first thing you need to do is try to understand what was successful, and what's not. Even the greatest composers did change their compositions after feedback from the audience. Saying the audience is wrong is not only dumb, but rude. You're insulting their taste of music.
My Reply: But, I heard that greatness is entirely subjective when it comes to music. If that's the case, then a person, who sees one simple tune as great and catchy, would be something great and catchy for that person.
But, someone, who sees it as nothing good or catchy, wouldn't be anything good or catchy for that person. So, there are people out there who'd embrace and appreciate simple melodies, such as that repeated 4-note melody of Beethoven's, which you said was nothing more than sound.
Some people require more than just a simple melody, while others are just fine with simple melodies. It all depends on your musical standards. For example, friends and family might very well appreciate a very simple melody, while professionals require a fully crafted song.
Friends and family have, in fact, praised and appreciated simple tunes I've made. They sung them to themselves, and thought they were good and catchy. My point is, if I wish to create music that pleases many people, then my music would have to be fully crafted songs that meet their expectations.
But, if I only wish to please a crowd who appreciates simple, good, catchy tunes, then I don't need to create fully crafted songs. Any fully crafted melodies I share should be good enough. Now, I'll definitely consider creating fully crafted songs. As a matter of fact, I think I'll l do that someday when I become a skilled and educated composer.
Other Person's Response: When you say that simple tunes can be great, do you mean they can be something amazing?
My Reply: Some of them can, while others would have a lesser form of greatness that doesn't render people praising them as something amazing, but merely pleases these people. For example, if I just shared a powerful portion of MJ's music, that would be an amazing tune right there.
But, if I just shared my beautiful tune (fully crafted), then it would be something good. But, it wouldn't be as good as that portion of MJ's music. I do think that some of my tunes would be amazing once fully crafted though. They'd be my absolute best ones.
Other Person's Response: I'm going to make a joke out of this, and share this simple 4-note melody by Beethoven. I think it's very good and catchy:
https://soundcloud.com/oyvind-skald/beethoven-5-sym-repeat
My Reply: But, you forgot to repeat the melody at the lower octave to make it complete. After all, that's what conveys the greatness and catchiness of Beethoven's melody (along with, of course, having chords and other things to go along with that melody). When I create melodies, I usually don't have just one simple melody like that. There's a bit more to my melodies.
So, my melodies are complete, and that's why they convey greatness and catchiness to my friends and family. However, some of my melodies don't need to repeat at higher or lower octaves. An example would be my Haunting Tune because some melodies convey their personality, or atmosphere, as they are. Also, just so you know, some of my melodies have more than just 4 notes to them.
Other Person's Response: In regards to what you just said in your above reply, well, there you are then. You've done it. You're better than Beethoven. No need to write anything else. Forget any chords and 'whatnots.' Don't need any of that. You're not deaf as well, are you?
My Reply: I'm not saying my simple tunes are as great as a fully crafted symphony by Beethoven. So, I'm not saying I'm as great or better than Beethoven. I have added chords and a beat to some of my tunes though.
However, some people might actually get the melodies I'm trying to convey without any chords and a beat. For example, I think people would definitely get that repeated 4-note melody of Beethoven's, its greatness, and catchiness, even without anything else to that melody. Lastly, I'm not deaf.
Other Person's Response: Well, let's keep in mind that Matt said he was autistic earlier. So, either that was him playing games, or he's actually autistic. That could explain this disconnect between emotion and music, and how it just seems to escape his understanding. Or, he could be having fun with this personality, and driving us all nuts...
My Reply: I'm not playing games, joking around, or just having fun with people. I'm serious.
Other Person's Response: I dare you to show me great music with just a 4 note melody. Do you have any example of this great art? The Beethoven one is not 4 notes; just the motive is. The greatness is not the motive itself, but how he uses it throughout. Like the part right after it's played 6 times in upwards motion, and released with an extended version of the motive. That is just the 6 bars in. How he uses the motive here is what makes it great.
My Reply: I'm saying that Beethoven's motive alone is good music. I do have an example of how just a few notes can be good, catchy music. In the game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, when the character Link obtains an item, such as a piece of heart, a very brief tune plays, which conveys the acquiring of that item. Here's a link to it:
Other Person's Response: That Zelda tune isn't simple. It's very complex orchestration to get those harmonies. It's not melody, but chords in progress.
My Reply: But, that's all based off of a simple melody, is it not? If I crafted my simple melodies, wouldn't they be good, just like that tune in the video? However, even if the tune in that youtube video didn't have all those complex elements to it, was just a simple melody, and had something simple to go along with it, such as a beat and chords, then I bet it would still be a good tune.
Other Person's Response: No, sorry. That’s why I recorded the Beethoven intro without strings, and just a mono piano to make you see that the sole melody is not strong at all. It's just 4 notes with almost no movement at all. Everything you love with the Beethoven Symphony 5 opening is the musicianship, orchestration, and how it's repeated through with small and greater changes of the motive.
Same here. In your Zelda example, you hear many instruments together making rich chords. Things like this are almost always used as a short instrumental part in a song. Like Earth Wind and Fire- Shining Star. Just a musical effect in the song, to make it less boring. It starts at 1:01 in this youtube video:
My Reply: So, if I took my simple melodies, and made them strong, then would they be as good and catchy, or even better than that Zelda tune? I don't think I need to do anything with the melody, such as making smaller and greater changes to it, do I? Couldn't I just have the strong, crafted melody itself, and that be something good and catchy? Like I said though, I do plan on creating fully crafted songs someday. However, I'm merely asking if this would be good enough for now.
Other Person's Response: The very fact you claim you've created good, catchy melodies in your mind must mean you're hearing strong melodies. But, simply having these melodies down with the proper chords and beat will not do, since it won't make them strong. That won't strongly convey their greatness and catchiness.
My Reply: In which case, I'll add the orchestration and everything else that's needed along these melodies to fully convey their greatness and catchiness. In other words, I'll fully craft these melodies.
Other Person's Response: I don't think that short Zelda tune you've presented is anything good.
My Reply: Many Zelda fans love it. As a matter of fact, they've made a meme out of it, since they love it so much. For example, a person made a video of someone getting an item, such as jewelry. You then hear that tune play as the person obtains the jewelry. That's enough to say that this tune is good and catchy. Another example would be with short Super Mario tunes.
Other Person's Response: This inspired me to write a song....
BandLab: Music Starts Here
Although the above is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I was actually trying to demonstrate a point here. I took that dramatic melody you presented, and developed it further. The lyrics were just based on the theme of this whole packet.
Now, I'm not saying what I did is any good (the AlterEgo voice is BAD. But, I've got a cold, and can't speak, never mind sing), but it does give your tune context. Context is important for any tune.
Even if you take those 5 notes from Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind, which have no chords or anything, it does have context in the film, and that's what invokes the emotion. Nobody knows the context of your tunes. So, you have to provide one.
For example, a person can write an extensive essay, which includes a Q&A Section on his personal views of Christianity, and how he disagrees with the doctrine of hell. Another example would be someone who writes an extensive essay that talks about how he disagrees with the standards of others, which say that homosexuality is wrong.
Other Person's Response: The theme in the intro of Symphony No. 5 by Beethoven is not great. It's just sounds. The greatness of the Allegro con brio is how he uses this theme. If you learn music, you hear how he twists it through the first part. That's great music.
If you wish to create music for others, research what they like. Not doing that is disrespect. If you want to sell anything you make yourself, make what people want. If somebody hired you to make a metal tune for them, and you give them something else, you won't get paid, and your not a good composer. Not even a decent one.
If you show your music to others, the first thing you need to do is try to understand what was successful, and what's not. Even the greatest composers did change their compositions after feedback from the audience. Saying the audience is wrong is not only dumb, but rude. You're insulting their taste of music.
My Reply: But, I heard that greatness is entirely subjective when it comes to music. If that's the case, then a person, who sees one simple tune as great and catchy, would be something great and catchy for that person.
But, someone, who sees it as nothing good or catchy, wouldn't be anything good or catchy for that person. So, there are people out there who'd embrace and appreciate simple melodies, such as that repeated 4-note melody of Beethoven's, which you said was nothing more than sound.
Some people require more than just a simple melody, while others are just fine with simple melodies. It all depends on your musical standards. For example, friends and family might very well appreciate a very simple melody, while professionals require a fully crafted song.
Friends and family have, in fact, praised and appreciated simple tunes I've made. They sung them to themselves, and thought they were good and catchy. My point is, if I wish to create music that pleases many people, then my music would have to be fully crafted songs that meet their expectations.
But, if I only wish to please a crowd who appreciates simple, good, catchy tunes, then I don't need to create fully crafted songs. Any fully crafted melodies I share should be good enough. Now, I'll definitely consider creating fully crafted songs. As a matter of fact, I think I'll l do that someday when I become a skilled and educated composer.
Other Person's Response: When you say that simple tunes can be great, do you mean they can be something amazing?
My Reply: Some of them can, while others would have a lesser form of greatness that doesn't render people praising them as something amazing, but merely pleases these people. For example, if I just shared a powerful portion of MJ's music, that would be an amazing tune right there.
But, if I just shared my beautiful tune (fully crafted), then it would be something good. But, it wouldn't be as good as that portion of MJ's music. I do think that some of my tunes would be amazing once fully crafted though. They'd be my absolute best ones.
Other Person's Response: I'm going to make a joke out of this, and share this simple 4-note melody by Beethoven. I think it's very good and catchy:
https://soundcloud.com/oyvind-skald/beethoven-5-sym-repeat
My Reply: But, you forgot to repeat the melody at the lower octave to make it complete. After all, that's what conveys the greatness and catchiness of Beethoven's melody (along with, of course, having chords and other things to go along with that melody). When I create melodies, I usually don't have just one simple melody like that. There's a bit more to my melodies.
So, my melodies are complete, and that's why they convey greatness and catchiness to my friends and family. However, some of my melodies don't need to repeat at higher or lower octaves. An example would be my Haunting Tune because some melodies convey their personality, or atmosphere, as they are. Also, just so you know, some of my melodies have more than just 4 notes to them.
Other Person's Response: In regards to what you just said in your above reply, well, there you are then. You've done it. You're better than Beethoven. No need to write anything else. Forget any chords and 'whatnots.' Don't need any of that. You're not deaf as well, are you?
My Reply: I'm not saying my simple tunes are as great as a fully crafted symphony by Beethoven. So, I'm not saying I'm as great or better than Beethoven. I have added chords and a beat to some of my tunes though.
However, some people might actually get the melodies I'm trying to convey without any chords and a beat. For example, I think people would definitely get that repeated 4-note melody of Beethoven's, its greatness, and catchiness, even without anything else to that melody. Lastly, I'm not deaf.
Other Person's Response: Well, let's keep in mind that Matt said he was autistic earlier. So, either that was him playing games, or he's actually autistic. That could explain this disconnect between emotion and music, and how it just seems to escape his understanding. Or, he could be having fun with this personality, and driving us all nuts...
My Reply: I'm not playing games, joking around, or just having fun with people. I'm serious.
Other Person's Response: I dare you to show me great music with just a 4 note melody. Do you have any example of this great art? The Beethoven one is not 4 notes; just the motive is. The greatness is not the motive itself, but how he uses it throughout. Like the part right after it's played 6 times in upwards motion, and released with an extended version of the motive. That is just the 6 bars in. How he uses the motive here is what makes it great.
My Reply: I'm saying that Beethoven's motive alone is good music. I do have an example of how just a few notes can be good, catchy music. In the game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, when the character Link obtains an item, such as a piece of heart, a very brief tune plays, which conveys the acquiring of that item. Here's a link to it:
Other Person's Response: That Zelda tune isn't simple. It's very complex orchestration to get those harmonies. It's not melody, but chords in progress.
My Reply: But, that's all based off of a simple melody, is it not? If I crafted my simple melodies, wouldn't they be good, just like that tune in the video? However, even if the tune in that youtube video didn't have all those complex elements to it, was just a simple melody, and had something simple to go along with it, such as a beat and chords, then I bet it would still be a good tune.
Other Person's Response: No, sorry. That’s why I recorded the Beethoven intro without strings, and just a mono piano to make you see that the sole melody is not strong at all. It's just 4 notes with almost no movement at all. Everything you love with the Beethoven Symphony 5 opening is the musicianship, orchestration, and how it's repeated through with small and greater changes of the motive.
Same here. In your Zelda example, you hear many instruments together making rich chords. Things like this are almost always used as a short instrumental part in a song. Like Earth Wind and Fire- Shining Star. Just a musical effect in the song, to make it less boring. It starts at 1:01 in this youtube video:
My Reply: So, if I took my simple melodies, and made them strong, then would they be as good and catchy, or even better than that Zelda tune? I don't think I need to do anything with the melody, such as making smaller and greater changes to it, do I? Couldn't I just have the strong, crafted melody itself, and that be something good and catchy? Like I said though, I do plan on creating fully crafted songs someday. However, I'm merely asking if this would be good enough for now.
Other Person's Response: The very fact you claim you've created good, catchy melodies in your mind must mean you're hearing strong melodies. But, simply having these melodies down with the proper chords and beat will not do, since it won't make them strong. That won't strongly convey their greatness and catchiness.
My Reply: In which case, I'll add the orchestration and everything else that's needed along these melodies to fully convey their greatness and catchiness. In other words, I'll fully craft these melodies.
Other Person's Response: I don't think that short Zelda tune you've presented is anything good.
My Reply: Many Zelda fans love it. As a matter of fact, they've made a meme out of it, since they love it so much. For example, a person made a video of someone getting an item, such as jewelry. You then hear that tune play as the person obtains the jewelry. That's enough to say that this tune is good and catchy. Another example would be with short Super Mario tunes.
Other Person's Response: This inspired me to write a song....
BandLab: Music Starts Here
Although the above is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I was actually trying to demonstrate a point here. I took that dramatic melody you presented, and developed it further. The lyrics were just based on the theme of this whole packet.
Now, I'm not saying what I did is any good (the AlterEgo voice is BAD. But, I've got a cold, and can't speak, never mind sing), but it does give your tune context. Context is important for any tune.
Even if you take those 5 notes from Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind, which have no chords or anything, it does have context in the film, and that's what invokes the emotion. Nobody knows the context of your tunes. So, you have to provide one.