All Religions More Equal than Different?

[shema]

of course all religions are different...but I believe that christianity is not a religion at all. When Jesus was walking the earth, They were called the Way.

 

[gnostic]

Huxley may have coined the term agnostic we use in English today, but even he acknowledged that he was borrowing the idea from Hume, who also wasn't the first one to argue knowledge of 'God' is an impossibility.

I agreed with you, doppleganger.

However, I have never read Hume. In a matter of fact, I have not read Huxley. I just know a little a bit of about their lives, and what they thought on the matter of non-theism.

The French poet Voltaire was said to be the father of agnosticism, and I haven't not read Voltaire's works too.

Agnostics doesn't require people to read these writings on agnosticism to be one.

And you must remember one thing, doppleganger. Hume was a skeptic. Skepticism and agnosticism are not precisely the same thing.

 

[Bro_Grace]

I believe that all the world religions come from the same source, a representative of God.

So they cannot be against one another nor can they conflict except where changes have been made to the original interpretation.

Aren't they more alike than different? And aren't the only real differences in language and rituals?

Yes, every religion comes from the same source: humans.

I took this slice from your post because it is very telling. We all believe certain things for a reason but we rarely think about the real motivation for those beliefs.

Your post says that God is the same for Judaism, Christianity, and I will add Islam, yet you say that the religions are not the same. Why?

Is it against Christianity to pray five times a day?
If I claim that Jesus was a prophet can I no longer be a Christian, one who follows Jesus?
If I believe that we should not kill any animal to eat, is that against any teaching in Christianity, Islam, or Judaism?
If I follow all of Jesus teachings but I do not consider Him to be anything but a normal human, how am I not following His ways?

Think about your motivation. Why are there a thousand Christian sects that all claim to be different when the rest of the world sees them as the same thing?

It's a clique. "Me and my group are better, we are going to heaven because we perform this one certain ritual this one specific way. God accepts this one over all the other rituals because that is what's really important to Him. We will teach others how to do this one ritual and it will be good in God's eyes."

Is this what you believe? That God chooses you over another?

It's about God, the one Creator, it's not about some ritual you just invented to show how much faith you have. That ritual ends up dividing people.

I agree with you guys. It's because of those reasonings and others that I am not religious. I'm still kinda new here and don't understand how all religions relate to the Creator but I do know that of the religions I do overstand, most are more alike than different. I like to focus on the common ground in which we agree.

Peace,
Bro Grace

 

[Hacker]

Why are there a thousand Christian sects that all claim to be different when the rest of the world sees them as the same thing?

It's a clique. "Me and my group are better, we are going to heaven because we perform this one certain ritual this one specific way. God accepts this one over all the other rituals because that is what's really important to Him. We will teach others how to do this one ritual and it will be good in God's eyes."

Is this what you believe? That God chooses you over another?

It's about God, the one Creator, it's not about some ritual you just invented to show how much faith you have. That ritual ends up dividing people.

:clap

 

[cardero]

“There is something YOU left out – and which no religion is qualified to teach – PURPOSE. Because PURPOSE is personal. What's PURPOSEful to YOU may not BE PURPOSEful to another. Religions, we might say, satisfy a need for support. Most of the religions at this moment are just forms of support groups. People will come up to others and say, "Do you want to be in my religion? I'll support you." In that sense, Alcoholics Anonymous is a religion. Most of your political parties are religions. Even supporting sport teams is a religion.”

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Religion
Pg: 42

"In YOUR society, this has implied that certain people of a different religion, creed, region, or color should BE treated fairly or better than others. Not once have I seen the human populace take pride in just BEing human. Some people are afraid that would entail integration and make the EGO work harder at defining itself."

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Pride, Stubborness and Ego
Pg: 289

 

[doppelganger]

The French poet Voltaire was said to be the father of agnosticism, and I haven't not read Voltaire's works too.

How does one "father" agnosticism?

Of course, if Voltaire is the "father," Huxley must be the "Son" because he made the word manifest. No one comes to Voltaire, but through Huxley.

:thud:

Agnostics doesn't require people to read these writings on agnosticism to be one.

Agreed. I just wanted to point out that the idea of not being able to "know" "God" because we can't have any experience of "God" is much older than Huxley. As he admitted in his own writings, he "sampled" the argument from Hume. In fact, Huxley took the term itself from the Greek word used in the story of the altar to the "unknown god" in the Acts of the Apostles - aàgnwstov or agnostos.

And you must remember one thing, doppleganger. Hume was a skeptic. Skepticism and agnosticism are not precisely the same thing.

These sorts of broad labels obscure understanding and interrupt communication unless they are very carefully regarded by all parties to a dialogue. What was your understanding of "skepticism" at the time you wrote the above sentence?

the doppleganger

 

[GoldenDragon]

of course all religions are different...but I believe that christianity is not a religion at all. When Jesus was walking the earth, They were called the Way.

So if you don't consider Christiantiy a religion and your probably obosed of it being a cult what do you consider it?

Plus I was taught in Catholic school in theology class that
"The Way" was a mere nickname from early Christianity. When Christianity first started out(seen only as a cult) they were being killed left and right being sent to colosoms(spelling please?) to be eating by lions,being stoned,crusified and such so they were named "The Way" because they were the sure way of being persecuted not because of anything spirtual.

 

[Random]

All paths lead to God, even (maybe especially) the esoteric ones.

Paganism, Druidism, Wicca, Shinto and all the non-Abrahamic religions are vaild paths to God also.

Problem is, most religions are exclusive of others instead of inclusive. Religion is an important function of personal and social identity, but they are founded in the intellectual mires of mankind, and the intellect is an ***. It only cares about ends not means, so recognition of other belief systems becomes antithetical to true religion.

To put it in perspective, a Christian who does Yoga, meditates, gives homage to the Goddess and seeks Enlightenment or moksha is no less a Christian in my eyes than one who sticks rigidly to the Church and its doctrines. Jesus would not renounce such a soul nor can we. Even Science and Atheism can lead to God! Yes, Einstein, Newton and many others are clear examples of how that can happen.

God is Love and that realisation is open to any human being of a true and purposeful Mind and Heart, regardless of their method of devotion.

 

[!Fluffy!]

I took this slice from your post because it is very telling. We all believe certain things for a reason but we rarely think about the real motivation for those beliefs.

Your post says that God is the same for Judaism, Christianity, and I will add Islam, yet you say that the religions are not the same. Why?

I showed you exactly why. Go back and read the post.

Is it against Christianity to pray five times a day?
If I claim that Jesus was a prophet can I no longer be a Christian, one who follows Jesus?
If I believe that we should not kill any animal to eat, is that against any teaching in Christianity, Islam, or Judaism?
If I follow all of Jesus teachings but I do not consider Him to be anything but a normal human, how am I not following His ways?

Think about your motivation. Why are there a thousand Christian sects that all claim to be different when the rest of the world sees them as the same thing?

It's a clique. "Me and my group are better, we are going to heaven because we perform this one certain ritual this one specific way. God accepts this one over all the other rituals because that is what's really important to Him. We will teach others how to do this one ritual and it will be good in God's eyes."

Is this what you believe? That God chooses you over another?

It's about God, the one Creator, it's not about some ritual you just invented to show how much faith you have. That ritual ends up dividing people.

What the Gehenna are you ranting about.

I really don't appreciate having my posts quote-mined in this way.

I answered your OP honestly with the best evidence I could come up with. You chose to
A. ignore the rest of the post and build a false premise based on beliefs you claim I have rather than what was presented
B. baselessly accuse me of "inventing a ritual to show how much faith I have"

You owe me an apology SU.

 

[josh24]

I took this slice from your post because it is very telling. We all believe certain things for a reason but we rarely think about the real motivation for those beliefs.

Your post says that God is the same for Judaism, Christianity, and I will add Islam, yet you say that the religions are not the same. Why?

Is it against Christianity to pray five times a day?
If I claim that Jesus was a prophet can I no longer be a Christian, one who follows Jesus?
If I believe that we should not kill any animal to eat, is that against any teaching in Christianity, Islam, or Judaism?
If I follow all of Jesus teachings but I do not consider Him to be anything but a normal human, how am I not following His ways?

Think about your motivation. Why are there a thousand Christian sects that all claim to be different when the rest of the world sees them as the same thing?

It's a clique. "Me and my group are better, we are going to heaven because we perform this one certain ritual this one specific way. God accepts this one over all the other rituals because that is what's really important to Him. We will teach others how to do this one ritual and it will be good in God's eyes."

Is this what you believe? That God chooses you over another?

It's about God, the one Creator, it's not about some ritual you just invented to show how much faith you have. That ritual ends up dividing people.

Sorry for the long post and i hope not to offend anyone by this but please read this through openly and with understanding.
I completely agree with you Super Universe on the fact that many "Christians" make it a clique and that there are non-Christians that live "better lives" than Chirstians. But we have to judge Christianity on the message and not the people that follow it because people are prideful and selfish and will try and change the message around to what they want it to say. That is why there are so many sects and groups of "Christians". But this should not be any evidence as to why Christianity would be false.
Although there are non Christians that live better lives, we don't know their hearts and their reasons for living them. That is the amazing thing about Christ is that it eliminates our problem of pride and trying to save ourselves and trying to work good deeds so that we reach salvation. SInce Christ has accomplished this for us, we have nothing to brag about. If it is just about living our lives to best of our ability or just making an effort to live a good life, then we encounter the problem of pridefullness in that it is up to us to save ourselves (i feel that i will never be worthy enough to get myself to heaven and it doesn't make sense if everyone goes to heaven not matter what).
If Christianity loses Christ then it loses itself completely. The Bible leads up to our need in Christ. Without Christ there is no Christianity. He is the entire ideal behind what Christians believe. That is why Christ is so unique beyond other religions, any religion that says Christ is not the son of God and did not save us can not be saying the same thing. As for its source, we will never be able to prove 100% whether the source is from God or humans. We can debate all we want but it won't make a difference we will find ourselves debating still years from now. It comes down to whether we earnestly and humbly seek the truth.
I am not here to give a hoorah speech but i believe that if you simplify it and take a step back and look at the picture as whole that Christ is the most logical and reasonable solution. The idea of Christ is completely unique and different than all other religions. And i pray that people not become like me because i know i am not good enough to get myself into heaven (or any better than anyone else) but i pray that everyone seeks the truth and does not let their own deires (pride, emotions, knowledge, etc) get in the way of their seeing the truth and what their heart really wants. All i want to do is tell others not what i have done or have figured out by knowledge, but what i have been given and the satisfaction and joy that i have received from Christ. And because he has done this for me i am going to give my best efforts to do what He says because i love Him and not because it gets me to heaven, just like why a person will do something for someone they have fallen in love with and are married to.
Sorry again for the long post and thankyou for reading this through.

 

[!Fluffy!]

For any one interested in reading the actual post rather than baseless accusations (notice please I didn't invent the Bible or Christianity, merely made a point to answer the OP):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, so sorry for jumping in the middle without wading through all of the posts, hope it's okay if I just respond to the OP.

From a traditional Christian POV: no, no, and no. Except regarding #2 in the case where the God of the O.T. is the same God worshipped in Judaism and Christianity.

Personally I wouldn't be able to support this premise in view of the claims of Christ and the apostles, and the exclusivity apparent throughout the NT:

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ,

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
From Ephesians 1------------------------------------------------------
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
From John 10
-----------------------------------------------------
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
-----------------------------------------------------
II Thess. 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation.
----------------------------------------------------
John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
----------------------------------------------------
John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you
----------------------------------------------------
and finally from Romans 8:

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life,
neither angels nor demons,
neither the present nor the future,
nor any powers, neither height nor depth,
nor anything else in all creation,
will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

So you see, Christians who accept their scriptures are pretty much attached to the risen Christ as their savior and the son of God. It's the core and central theme of Christianity.

For most Christians any denial of Christ in those terms would be a denial of Christianity as it declares itself to be.

Other religions, understandably, can't tolerate or accept those NT claims. If the divinity, Messiah-hood and Sonship of Christ was surgically removed from Christianity, it would not just require a "different translation" of the bible - huge portions of it would have to be cut out completely. Such would not only render the patient useless, it would render the patient dead.

As always, IMHO
-mw

 

[josh24]

To put it in perspective, a Christian who does Yoga, meditates, gives homage to the Goddess and seeks Enlightenment or moksha is no less a Christian in my eyes than one who sticks rigidly to the Church and its doctrines. Jesus would not renounce such a soul nor can we. Even Science and Atheism can lead to God! Yes, Einstein, Newton and many others are clear examples of how that can happen.

I understand what you are saying. And i agree with alot of it (not that my agreeing makes a difference). But the Christian can practice yoga and meditation but it must be to Christ and no other God. If we truly love Christ and what he has done for us, we won't want to worship other God's. Who would we be if we did not believe in the God who saves us and believe in what He says. For if He saved us then we have reason to trust what guidlines He has for us. We believe in what He says in that the guidlines are there to help us even if we having trouble understanding them. It is not what we do but why we do it and the motivation in our hearts to do the things we do. If we do good so that we will go to heaven then we are selfish. The only way around that is for someone else (who is perfect and sinless) to get you there.

 

[gnostic]

In fact, Huxley took the term itself from the Greek word used in the story of the altar to the "unknown god" in the Acts of the Apostles - aàgnwstov or agnostos.

Yes I know. The agnostos theo, although the current translation to English don't use these word, that's what it would be in Greek.

What was your understanding of "skepticism" at the time you wrote the above sentence?

Skepticism doesn't just apply to religion. My understanding is that you can be skeptical of history, philosophy or system of reasoning, scientific theories (such as the Big Bang and Evolution), paranormal phenomena, etc.

Agnosticism applied more explicitly to religion and theism, thus the existence of divine beings.

 

[doppelganger]

Skepticism doesn't just apply to religion. My understanding is that you can be skeptical of history, philosophy or system of reasoning, scientific theories (such as the Big Bang and Evolution), paranormal phenomena, etc.

But what is "Skepticism" to you or what do think makes up "skepticism"?

the doppleganger

 

[maro]

despite of all these too much religions and inventions u r discussing

and which made me feel like if I was in a maze or something

the truth which I believe:
There is only one god
who created the whole universe with his great power
and who created us to worship him only
( not jesus, and not Muhammed, and of course not the fire or the cow or the sun )

I also believe that this life is a test
and that The one who gave us life at the first time, will give it to us again after death
either to reward or to punish us

This is the simple, logic truth which I deeply belive in
This is what my mind accepts
and what I feel in my heart leaves me no doubt it's the truth

and this what all prophets had told their people
but still people can't see the truth
although it's clear to me as the sun

I really feel I am blessed

and I wish for u all to come out of this Maze, and find the right path,
which guarantees happiness to u,
in this life, and in the other life

 

[bigvindaloo]

I believe that all the world religions come from the same source, a representative of God.

So they cannot be against one another nor can they conflict except where changes have been made to the original interpretation.

Aren't they more alike than different? And aren't the only real differences in language and rituals?

Religion is a vehicle for difference of expression in language and rituals. However, when asked what they mean, explanations tend to converge and similarities accentuated. Otherwise if you are looking to compare rather than contrast religions, similarities rather than differences will stick out. So there is plenty of room for bias to influence the discussion.

 

[doppelganger]

This is an excerpt of Joseph Cambell's interviews with Bill Moyers, it's long, but chock full of interesting ideas abou the commonality of religious and mythological experience:

Now, according to the normal way of thinking about the Christian religion. We cannot identify with Jesus, we have to imitate Jesus. To say, ''I and the Father are one," as Jesus said, is blasphemy for us. However, in the Thomas gospel that was dug up in Egypt some forty years ago. Jesus says, ''He who drinks from my mouth will become as I am, and I shall be he.'' Now, that is exactly Buddhism. We are all manifestations of Buddha consciousness, or Christ consciousness, only we don't know it. The word ''Buddha'' means ''the one who waked up.'' We are all to do that—to wake up to the Christ or Buddha consciousness within us. This is blasphemy in the normal way of Christian thinking, but it is the very essence of Christian Gnosticism and the Thomas gospel. Civilizations are grounded on myth. The civilization of the Middle Ages was grounded on the myth of the Fall in the Garden, the redemption on the cross, and the carrying of the grace of redemption to man through the sacraments. The Christ story involves a sublimation of what originally was a very solid vegetal image. Jesus is on Holy Rood, the tree, and he is himself the fruit of the tree. Jesus is the fruit of eternal life, which was on the second forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden. When man ate the fruit of the first tree, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he was expelled from the Garden. The Garden is the place of unity, of non-duality of male and female, good and evil, God and human beings. You eat the duality, and you are on the way out. The tree of coming back to the Garden is the tree of immortal life, where you know that I and the Father are one. Getting back into the Garden is the aim of many a religion. When Yahweh threw man out of the Garden, he put two cherubim at the gate, with a flaming sword between.

Now, when you approach a Buddhist shrine, with the Buddha seated under the tree of immortal life, you will find at the gate two guardians— those are the cherubim, and you're going between them to the tree of immortal life. In the Christian tradition, Jesus on the cross is on a tree, the tree of immortal life, and he is the fruit of the tree. Jesus on the cross, the Buddha under the tree— these are the same figures. And the cherubim at the gate—who are they? At the Buddhist shrines you'll see one has his mouth open, the other has his mouth closed—fear and desire, a pair of opposites. If you're approaching a garden like that, and those two figures there are real to you and threaten you, if you have fear for your life, you are still outside the garden. But if you are no longer attached to your ego existence, but see the ego existence as a function of a larger, eternal totality, and you favor the larger against the smaller, then you won't be afraid of those two figures, and you will go through. We're kept out of the Garden by our own fear and desire in relation to what we think to be the goods of our life.

Moyers: Have all man at all times felt some sense of exclusion from an ultimate reality, from bliss, from delight, from perfection, from God?
Campbell: Yes, but then you also have moments of ecstasy. The difference between everyday living and living in those moments of ecstasy is the difference between being outside and inside the Garden. You go past fear and desire, past the pair of opposites.

Moyers: So when Jesus says, ''Love thy neighbor as thyself,'' he is saying in effect, ''Love thy neighbor because he is yourself.''

Campbell: There is a beautiful figure in the Oriental tradition, the Bodhisattva, whose nature is boundless compassion, and from whose fingertips there is said to drip ambrosia down to the lowest depths of hell.

Moyers: And the meaning of that?

Campbell: At the very end of the Divine Comedy, Dante realizes that the love of God informs the whole universe down to the lowest pits of hell. That's very much the same image. The bodhisattva represents the principle of compassion, which is the healing principle that makes life possible. Life is pain, but compassion is what gives it the possibility of continuing. The bodhisattva is one who has achieved the realization of immortality yet voluntarily participates in the sorrows of the world. Voluntary participation in the world is very different from just getting born into it. That's exactly the theme of Paul's statement about Christ in his Epistle to the Philippians: that Jesus ''did not think Godhood something to be held to but took the form of a servant here on the earth, even to death on the cross.'' That's a voluntary participation in the fragmentation of life.

the doppleganger

 

[doppelganger]

Compare what Campbell says about the cherubim who guard the entrance to the Garden or the Buddhist shrine with Kafka's "Before the Law".

When Yahweh threw man out of the Garden, he put two cherubim at the gate, with a flaming sword between. Now, when you approach a Buddhist shrine, with the Buddha seated under the tree of immortal life, you will find at the gate two guardians— those are the cherubim, and you're going between them to the tree of immortal life. In the Christian tradition, Jesus on the cross is on a tree, the tree of immortal life, and he is the fruit of the tree. Jesus on the cross, the Buddha under the tree— these are the same figures. And the cherubim at the gate—who are they? At the Buddhist shrines you'll see one has his mouth open, the other has his mouth closed—fear and desire, a pair of opposites. If you're approaching a garden like that, and those two figures there are real to you and threaten you, if you have fear for your life, you are still outside the garden. But if you are no longer attached to your ego existence, but see the ego existence as a function of a larger, eternal totality, and you favor the larger against the smaller, then you won't be afraid of those two figures, and you will go through. We're kept out of the Garden by our own fear and desire in relation to what we think to be the goods of our life.

BEFORE THE LAW stands a doorkeeper. To this doorkeeper there comes a man from the country and prays for admittance to the Law. But the doorkeeper says that he cannot grant admittance at the moment. The man thinks it over and then asks if he will be allowed in later. "It is possible," says the doorkeeper, "but not at the moment." Since the gate stands open, as usual, and the doorkeeper steps to one side, the man stoops to peer through the gateway into the interior. Observing that, the doorkeeper laughs and says: "If you are so drawn to it, just try to go in despite my veto. But take note: I am powerful. And I am only the least of the door-keepers. From hall to hall there is one doorkeeper after another, each more powerful than the last. The third doorkeeper is already so terrible that even I cannot bear to look at him." These are difficulties the man from the country has not expected; the Law, he thinks, should surely be accessible at all times and to everyone, but as he now takes a closer look at the doorkeeper in his fur coat, with his big sharp nose and long, thin, black Tar-tar beard, he decides that it is better to wait until he gets permission to enter.

The doorkeeper gives him a stool and lets him sit down at one side of the door. There he sits for days and years. He makes many attempts to be admitted, and wearies the doorkeeper by his importunity. The doorkeeper frequently has little interviews with him, asking him questions about his home and many other things, but the questions are put indifferently, as great lords put them, and always finish with the statement that he cannot be let in yet. The man, who has furnished himself with many things for his journey, sacrifices all he has, however valuable, to bribe the doorkeeper. The doorkeeper accepts everything, but always with the remark: "I am only taking it to keep you from thinking you have omitted anything." During these many years the man fixes his attention almost continuously on the doorkeeper. He forgets the other doorkeepers, and this first one seems to him the sole obstacle preventing access to the Law. He curses his bad luck, in his early years boldly and loudly, later, as he grows old, he only grumbles to himself. He becomes childish, and since in his yearlong contemplation of the doorkeeper he has come to know even the fleas in his fur collar, he begs the fleas as well to help him and to change the doorkeeper's mind. At length his eyesight begins to fail, and he does not know whether the world is really darker or whether his eyes are only deceiving him. Yet in his darkness he is now aware of a radiance that streams inextinguishably from the gateway of the Law.

Now he has not very long to live. Before he dies, all his experiences in these long years gather themselves in his head to one point, a question he has not yet asked the doorkeeper. He waves him nearer, since he can no longer raise his stiffening body. The doorkeeper has to bend low towards him, for the difference in height between them has altered much to the man's disadvantage.

"What do you want to know now?" asks the doorkeeper; "you are insatiable!"

"Everyone strives to reach the Law," says the man, "so how does it happen that for all these many years no one but myself has ever begged for admittance?"

The doorkeeper recognizes that the man has reached his end, and to let his failing senses catch the words roars in his ear: "No one else could ever be admitted here, since this gate was made only for you. I am now going to shut it."

I stand before the rules that govern entrance into my bliss. If I approach them in fear, I will not gain entry. If I approach them fearlessly - willing to give up my self if necessary - I shall return to the Garden, and I shall enter the Law. Like Campbell, I find this spiritual movement - the Way - in every wisdom tradition - the inspiration of momentary bliss that helps me balance between the world of of "me" (the world of Creation and of the "Son") and the absolute (the world of Unity and of the "Father") that make up my being.

the doppleganger

 

[!Fluffy!]

Religion is a vehicle for difference of expression in language and rituals. However, when asked what they mean, explanations tend to converge and similarities accentuated. Otherwise if you are looking to compare rather than contrast religions, similarities rather than differences will stick out. So there is plenty of room for bias to influence the discussion.

Fair enough.

Bias aside, I would hope we all could honestly acknowledge the truth of the following statements:

1. Christianity is called Christianity because its core belief is in - Christ! Not a man, or a ritual, but the Christ.

2. Islam and Judaism do not accept the Christhood of Jesus. Nor do any other world religions afaik.

Artificial attempts to eradicate that one central conflict by manipulating language or emphasizing ritual over content does nothing but promote confusion. A false harmony among groups, arrived at by gutting the core beliefs of one group -- is morally reprehensible and insupportable, imo.

Sorry to be so adamant, but in this case I am left with a personal repugnance for the continued attempts to erase Christ just in order to arrive at a consensus.

IOW we can't sanitize the Christ of the Bible to reach a happy medium:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34 NASB)

"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division."... (Luke 12:49 NASB)

He said a lot of stuff like this. Does anyone here think it was the beatitudes that got him crucified? No. It was his central message that incited the wrath of the world then as now. His very name is enough to bring people to blows. So let's please not do him the disservice of remaking him or his followers' faith in him) into something more 'palatable'.

So you can argue with the Christian Bible, and that I understand completely. Just don't erase it or try to make it something it isn't, and don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like what it says. Deal?

 

[Genna]

WOW! It seems as if your pretty comfortable in your christian faith! If you don't mind me asking, what give you this assurance that your faith is the true one?