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Allowing the serious offenders to live.

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
But, none of this has anything to do with capital punishment.
It has to do with your response to this statement "You know, he escaped from jail and assaulted and murdered some more women." It's the sort of thing that happens frequently when states don't execute murderers. Escape, commuted sentences, etc...

These are irrelevant facts. Ted Bundy was not serving a sentence of life without the possibility of parole.
He is an example of a murderer who after being locked up went on to murder again. That's the issue I was addressing.
There are 0 inmates released with this sentence, as it is only given to those who will never have the possibility of release.
Dante Ferrazza, sentenced to life without parole in 1967 was released in 2009. I could list more, but when you claim 0, all I need is one.
 

dgirl1986

Big Queer Chesticles!
Oh ... well, if life without parole is not easily on the table, then my entire argument falls apart. I'm talking, solitary confinement with limited supervised solitary activities. Only contact with certain, high-ranking guards. I apologize for my ignorance.

I am not sure how that is more humane than death.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
It has to do with your response to this statement "You know, he escaped from jail and assaulted and murdered some more women." It's the sort of thing that happens frequently when states don't execute murderers. Escape, commuted sentences, etc...

He is an example of a murderer who after being locked up went on to murder again. That's the issue I was addressing.
Dante Ferrazza, sentenced to life without parole in 1967 was released in 2009. I could list more, but when you claim 0, all I need is one.
That issue, which I agree with you on, is not relevant because death sentences would be changed to life without parole sentences (logically speaking of course). No reason to think that they wouldnt. We are only talking about when the death penalty is on the table during sentencing after the verdict.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I am not sure how that is more humane than death.
Oh ... I think it is less humane. Don't get me wrong. I have no sympathy for cold blooded calculating murderers. they deserve to die. My argument is utilitarian in respect to what is best for society as a whole ... financialy speaking, in regards to safety, in terms of justice, etc.
 

dgirl1986

Big Queer Chesticles!
Oh ... I think it is less humane. Don't get me wrong. I have no sympathy for cold blooded calculating murderers. they deserve to die. My argument is utilitarian in respect to what is best for society as a whole ... financialy speaking, in regards to safety, in terms of justice, etc.

Didn't ted bundy escape prison and hurt more women before he was executed? There is always that risk with incarceration.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Didn't ted bundy escape prison and hurt more women before he was executed? There is always that risk with incarceration.
That is irrelevant (an unrelated issue). He was not on death row or life without parole. those would be the only relevant cases.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Didn't ted bundy escape prison and hurt more women before he was executed? There is always that risk with incarceration.
When is the last time someone escaped from death row? I mean if they are going to get out legally on a technicality or something, they will surely still have that chance, as it takes years to execute someone.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
If you yourself could kill one of those people, then maybe yes for you, but I cannot even kill a cockroach, so its no for me.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
When is the last time someone escaped from death row? I mean if they are going to get out legally on a technicality or something, they will surely still have that chance, as it takes years to execute someone.

I'm not sure of the most recent, but one of the most deadly was Kenneth McDuff. Wasn't so much an escape as it was he was on death row for three murders when the moratorium on the death penalty went into effect, converting his death sentence into a life sentence. He was paroled due to prison overcrowding, and he went on to murder at least 11 more people.
 

dgirl1986

Big Queer Chesticles!
In regards to Ted Bundy...I read up on it and it turns out that they didnt have much evidence against him until he committed crimes during his second escape.
 

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
The recent execution of 2 Australians and 6 others by firing squad in Indonesia, is in my opinion a disgusting example of murder by the state for political gain. These guys did a stupid thing but never killed anyone, to all extent they appeared fully rehabilitated in the 10 years they were on death row. The new president of Indonesia in an act of appeasement to a shady bunch of conservative muslims boasts of his tough stand. To me he is a weak gutless leader and puppet of evil forces in Indonesia, who arrogantly refused to look at the individual cases to push his sick demented agenda. I predict an increase in terrorist attacks from indonesia as the new government condones and turns a blind eye to radicalisation of their young.

Most nations have matured enough to remove capital punishment from their books, sadly the US is a main offender in the same class and no better than Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and North Korea. One would hope the US would lead by example and grow up, banning capital punishment at a federal level. It is proved the death penalty fails as a deterrent so the only point of it is vengeance. I thought the the fictional bloke in the sky was the only one who could exercise that right.
 
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leibowde84

Veteran Member
The recent execution of 2 Australians and 6 others by firing squad in Indonesia, is in my opinion a disgusting example of murder by the state for political gain. These guys did a stupid thing but never killed anyone, to all extent they appeared fully rehabilitated in the 10 years they were on death row. The new president of Indonesia in an act of appeasement to a shady bunch of conservative muslims boasts of his tough stand. To me he is a weak gutless leader and puppet of evil forces in Indonesia, who arrogantly refused to look at the individual cases to push his sick demented agenda. I predict an increase in terrorist attacks from indonesia as the new government condones and turns a blind eye to radicalisation of their young.

Most nations have matured enough to remove capital punishment from their books, sadly the US is a main offender in the same class and no better than Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and North Korea. One would hope the US would lead by example and grow up, banning capital punishment at a federal level. It is proved the death penalty fails as a deterrent so the only point of it is vengeance. I thought the the fictional bloke in the sky was the only one who could exercise that right.
You are right on. Are these people really stupid enough to think that the ones sneaking drugs accross borders are the kingpins of these organizations?! Most likely, these are merely underlings, most likely forced by threats to do things like this. The death penalty does not seem nearly appropriate.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So I wonder, is it more ethically or morally right to allow serious offenders/murders/rapists etc to live even though what they have done is horrendous and there is a big chance they could do it again? Would it be more ethically or morally right to remove them as a threat?
In a country with a properly functioning penal system, life imprisonment takes care of all of this.

The only execution I've supported in recent times was Saddam Hussein. As long as he lived, there was the possibility that his followers would attack his prison and break him out. For the average rapist or murderer without a personal army, concerns about breaking out or reoffending can be dealt with through security measures, counseling, etc.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
In a country with a properly functioning penal system, life imprisonment takes care of all of this.

The only execution I've supported in recent times was Saddam Hussein. As long as he lived, there was the possibility that his followers would attack his prison and break him out. For the average rapist or murderer without a personal army, concerns about breaking out or reoffending can be dealt with through security measures, counseling, etc.
I agree ... but, now, it seems like Sadam was the only kind of dictator that was able to stop the constant wars in that part of the world. Pretty damn evil, but he wouldn't have allowed ISIS to run rampant all over the Middle-East.
 
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