Altered States of Consciousness

[Penumbra]

Altered states of consciousness seem to be a common aspect to religion. Sometimes religion attracts believers due to promises about the afterlife or by simply being the cultural status quo, but other times, powerful subjective experiences lead a person to convert to a religion or stay with a religion.

The nature of these types of experience seem to differ substantially from person to person, and seem to be brought on by various ways from prayer, or meditation, or dancing, or substances, or rituals, or hypnosis, or trauma, or out of nowhere. Some of them are measurable. Some of them can occur to non-religious people as well. They seem to occur to people of various levels of intelligence, knowledge, cultural background, personality type, etc. They also seem to have occurred stretching far back into prehistory.

Altered states of consciousness are a foreign concept to me, except for the standard sleep vs. wakefulness cycle. I don't really understand altered states of consciousness, apart from reading scientific literature, but it does seem that a majority of people have had some type of this at some point.

Have you experienced any sort of religious or secular altered state of consciousness, like a mystical experience, or union with deities, or hypnosis, or a trance of some sort? If so, for what purpose did you seek it (if you sought it at all), what was it like, is it replicable, and in what way do you interpret it?

Edit: While posting in the thread is the easiest method, if you'd prefer to share your story over a private message, that is welcomed as well. A few members have contacted me via PM regarding this thread, wishing to share their story there instead of publicly.

Edit2: Please keep rule 6 in mind when posting. So please don't describe participation in illegal activities or encourage participation in illegal activities.

 

[F0uad]

Is getting bumps while you pray and getting emotional after beautiful recitation also included?

 

[Penumbra]

Is getting bumps while you pray and getting emotional after beautiful recitation also included?

I'm not sure if it's an altered state of consciousness or not (it's quite a vague term anyway), but it does sound like it's along the same lines.

What kind of emotions do you get? Do you recall that you have always had those types of responses?

 

[F0uad]

I think there are a plenty of people who get emotional after listening to beautiful quranic recitation, i am not sure how to describe it though. Maybe you should youtube it by typing this: emotional quran recitation.

I think the emotion triggers a though of knowing the truth or kind of sort.

 

[Sunstone]

I suspect it's largely futile to try to describe at least some "altered states of consciousness", Penumbra. The only way that I can understand what you are describing to me is for me to interpret your words in terms of my own experiences. If I have not had any experiences like yours, then I will still interpret your words in terms of my own experiences, but my interpretation will be way off the mark.

Try thinking of it this way: if you have experienced a barn and I have not, I will interpret your description of the barn you have experienced in terms of the motel I have experienced.

Even to say that there are experiences, such as mystical experiences, that are so radically different from normal experience that people who have not had them cannot conceive of them -- even to say that much, Penumbra -- is to confuse most people.

 

[Penumbra]

I suspect it's largely futile to try to describe at least some "altered states of consciousness", Penumbra. The only way that I can understand what you are describing to me is for me to interpret your words in terms of my own experiences. If I have not had any experiences like yours, then I will still interpret your words in terms of my own experiences, but my interpretation will be way off the mark.

Try thinking of it this way: if you have experienced a barn and I have not, I will interpret your description of the barn you have experienced in terms of the motel I have experienced.

Even to say that there are experiences, such as mystical experiences, that are so radically different from normal experience that people who have not had them cannot conceive of them -- even to say that much, Penumbra -- is to confuse most people.

We have discussed mystical experiences before to a certain extent.

Do you generally have what you would describe as mystical experiences, and if so, how often would you say you have them, and what triggers them?

 

[Sunstone]

We have discussed mystical experiences before to a certain extent.

Do you generally have what you would describe as mystical experiences, and if so, how often would you say you have them, and what triggers them?

If I ever were to have a mystical experience, I would never willingly discuss it publicly. But from what I have read about mystical experiences -- about the science of them -- it is still not certain what reliably causes them.

 

[Bob Dixon]

I like Maslow's idea of "peak states".

 

[Sir Doom]

Have you experienced any sort of religious or secular altered state of consciousness, like a mystical experience, or union with deities, or hypnosis, or a trance of some sort? If so, for what purpose did you seek it (if you sought it at all), what was it like, is it replicable, and in what way do you interpret it?

Its been a very long time since I have been moved by anything religious, but I think I would do myself a disservice if I ever forgot what it felt like. Often times (and this probably doesn't come as much of a surprise) it was when I was giving my own testimony to a group. Normally, I was sealed like a clam about pretty much every subject. I had no idea how to explain my beliefs it was all sort of a jumble in my head. But when the audience was present, it was like everything just sort of lined up. I could see very clearly why I believed what I did and how to say it. And the words would pour out right along with tears of joy. And seeing the audience respond similarly only made it build and build. I can also attest to being part of that audience and feeling the same when someone else spoke. The emotions I felt speaking and listening where close enough to be called the same. Joy.

This happened more than once during my time as a Christian and I can honestly say I believed my words when I said them even if I don't now. And the emotions I experienced and seemed to cause others to experience were very real. I don't know if this really counts as an altered state, but its as close as I've ever been.

Now, one thing I will add (before someone tries to re-convert me) is that I have felt very similar experiences outside of a religious venue. I've never really had that sort of group response in any other setting, but the emotions I felt in those times is not exclusive. This is going to sound really cheap to some people, but I felt the very same feelings the other day watching a movie. As I watched I began to imagine myself in the character's position and at once I felt the profound sorrow that the character must have felt in his situation and I was moved to tears (not the manliest thing for a man to do ). The interesting thing was that the sorrow felt identical to the joy I had felt before in church (and at other times). It really was joy that I was feeling and I think it had everything to do with that realization of the character. I identified with him even if I could never, and would never be able to experience it first hand (as it was a fiction) I still felt the emotion.

The parallel I experienced between these events (and others very similar) is identifying with someone's vision, I think. Whether it's a fellow church-members testimony of god or a movie writer's superb character development. The realization that you are understanding what someone is saying, understanding they believe what they are saying, and understanding that you share that belief. These things rarely hit us all at once but when they do, its like... a whole new state of mind

 

[idav]

Altered states of consciousness seem to be a common aspect to religion. Sometimes religion attracts believers due to promises about the afterlife or by simply being the cultural status quo, but other times, powerful subjective experiences lead a person to convert to a religion or stay with a religion.

It tapping into the parts of the brain that are not normally a conscious state. What meditations do is train the brain so certain techniques achieve certain results. The brain can work much harder in the conscious state but it takes years of training the brain. Change doesn't happen overnight in the brain without trauma of some sort.

 

[Penumbra]

Its been a very long time since I have been moved by anything religious, but I think I would do myself a disservice if I ever forgot what it felt like. Often times (and this probably doesn't come as much of a surprise) it was when I was giving my own testimony to a group. Normally, I was sealed like a clam about pretty much every subject. I had no idea how to explain my beliefs it was all sort of a jumble in my head. But when the audience was present, it was like everything just sort of lined up. I could see very clearly why I believed what I did and how to say it. And the words would pour out right along with tears of joy. And seeing the audience respond similarly only made it build and build. I can also attest to being part of that audience and feeling the same when someone else spoke. The emotions I felt speaking and listening where close enough to be called the same. Joy.

This happened more than once during my time as a Christian and I can honestly say I believed my words when I said them even if I don't now. And the emotions I experienced and seemed to cause others to experience were very real. I don't know if this really counts as an altered state, but its as close as I've ever been.

Now, one thing I will add (before someone tries to re-convert me) is that I have felt very similar experiences outside of a religious venue. I've never really had that sort of group response in any other setting, but the emotions I felt in those times is not exclusive. This is going to sound really cheap to some people, but I felt the very same feelings the other day watching a movie. As I watched I began to imagine myself in the character's position and at once I felt the profound sorrow that the character must have felt in his situation and I was moved to tears (not the manliest thing for a man to do ). The interesting thing was that the sorrow felt identical to the joy I had felt before in church (and at other times). It really was joy that I was feeling and I think it had everything to do with that realization of the character. I identified with him even if I could never, and would never be able to experience it first hand (as it was a fiction) I still felt the emotion.

The parallel I experienced between these events (and others very similar) is identifying with someone's vision, I think. Whether it's a fellow church-members testimony of god or a movie writer's superb character development. The realization that you are understanding what someone is saying, understanding they believe what they are saying, and understanding that you share that belief. These things rarely hit us all at once but when they do, its like... a whole new state of mind

Thank you for sharing. The part about a sort of emotional feedback loop with an audience is very interesting.

 

[Penumbra]

If I go to a rock concert for a band I like, I just kind of stand there semi-bored or semi-interested. My level of excitement at such things is equal to what it is right now. I find it interesting to see friends who are otherwise calm, start to go crazy and get in the zone.

I don't detect any noticeable effects from caffeine, although I'm sure it must affect me biologically, like perhaps increasing heartbeat or something. Similarly, if I drink alcohol, I readily feel the physical effects of being tired but don't generally feel any mental effects other than sluggishness and slower thinking.

I've put meditation to worthwhile use, but not to the extent of having any altered state of consciousness.

When I was younger I used to pray and go to church services, but was mainly just bored.

I attended a hypnotist event which was quite neat. Several of my friends were strongly affected and completely hypnotized. It didn't work on me, though I wish it had, so instead I got to watch them do funny things.

I generally don't remember any dreams, but when I do, they're very plain. They're the same type of experiences as in day to day life.


I therefore find the various experiences that people describe in various settings to be quite interesting, because I have no bearing on what they're like.

 

[Madhuri]

Have you experienced any sort of religious or secular altered state of consciousness, like a mystical experience, or union with deities, or hypnosis, or a trance of some sort? If so, for what purpose did you seek it (if you sought it at all), what was it like, is it replicable, and in what way do you interpret it?

I've only had one experience, which was a trance. And I was 6 years old.

In the religion I grew up in, we had something similar to the Catholic rosary. It is called Tulsi beads and we chant the Maha Mantra on those beads. 108 beads, 108 repetitions of the one mantra. At the age of 6, I was only expected to do one round, which means 108 repetitions (adults tried for 16 rounds every day).

My dad has always had a focus on yoga and meditation so he used to show me how to sit correctly and how to breath correctly and how to try and focus my mind on the mantra and on God so as to fall into a deep meditation while chanting.

So on one occasion, when we lived in a village in India, I sat to do my round and tried the techniques dad had taught me. Mum was in the same room cleaning and making sure I got through the round without cheating or spacing out.

At this time in my life, there was a picture of Radha and Krishna that I absolutely loved. I decided to try and meditate on that image while chanting. I don't know how and have never been able to get there since, but I fell into this trance. For roughly 10 minutes, my only awareness was of this image. I was no longer 'me' and had no concept of 'me'. There was only this image. I would describe the experience as deep peace, with no emotions and no thoughts.

I was brought out of the trance suddenly when my thumb hit the last bead. Mum was still near me, so I asked her how long I had been sitting there and if I had been chanting the whole time. She said I had, and very well.

So what seems to have happened, and I will never forget, is that I sat to chant starting at bead 1, fell immediately into a trance, and woke from it sitting in the same upright position, having chanted out loud without awareness and reached the final bead in the space of roughly 10 minutes.

This one experience has been enough for me to believe that there is really something to the teachings in my religion. I can relate to the concepts of Oneness, the concepts of Consciousness and trust that mediation works.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Have you experienced any sort of religious or secular altered state of consciousness, like a mystical experience, or union with deities, or hypnosis, or a trance of some sort? If so, for what purpose did you seek it (if you sought it at all), what was it like, is it replicable, and in what way do you interpret it?

I had a few. I didn't seek it out initially. I was just doing a few assorted rituals I found online. Same feeling of...yeah I don't know how to say it (all I can say is I felt a vast expansive darkness, and I came back laughing like a madman). It was definitely replicable, and I interpreted it as some sort of altered psychological state.

 

[Sir Doom]

I wanted to add that after posting all of that I sort of came to a realization that trying to get back to those feelings that I had in church all those years ago is probably one of the biggest reasons I still argue mostly for the various concepts of gods and higher powers as opposed to against them. I suppose it was something I always knew, but its like a different perspective.

Anyway, thanks for the inspiring thread.

Also, I agree about the feedback thing. Its this sort of phenomenon that lets me accept things like the, "How can you not believe?" position that a fair number of believers have without question. It gladdens me when people get to find that joy however they find it.

 

[YmirGF]

Have you experienced any sort of religious or secular altered state of consciousness, like a mystical experience, or union with deities, or hypnosis, or a trance of some sort? If so, for what purpose did you seek it (if you sought it at all), what was it like, is it replicable, and in what way do you interpret it?

My life is a continuous flow of altered states of consciousness, Penumbra. I've had enough so-called "mystical experiences" for a small army. I guess I'm just slow or something and need the extra jolts to keep my interest perked. That said, the main area of interest to you may be in how I have come to interpret things. First off, I've learned to not fixate on whatever just occurred or leap to conclusions. Just because one has altered states of consciousness does not necessarily mean that one can actually describe them or for that matter, understands them. I think that that is where a lot of the gibberish has crept into mysticism, in that people interpret their experiences incorrectly, run with the ball and pretend they know what they are experiencing. Folks may even buttress their ignorant projections with quotes from mystical sounding writers... in a weak appeal to authority.

Unlike with other disciplines, if you will, the more one experiences these altered states, the less one eventually realizes they truly know. Such experiences do tend to flip reality on its pointy little head, I'll say that. It's like you thought you finally understood something and then you have yet another experience that tends to blow the doors off you precarious understanding. After awhile it just tends to keep you sharp and on your toes. Eventually, one no longer pretends they know much at all... as there is so much more to learn... It's a research study I see no end to... forever...

 

[Penumbra]

I've only had one experience, which was a trance. And I was 6 years old.

In the religion I grew up in, we had something similar to the Catholic rosary. It is called Tulsi beads and we chant the Maha Mantra on those beads. 108 beads, 108 repetitions of the one mantra. At the age of 6, I was only expected to do one round, which means 108 repetitions (adults tried for 16 rounds every day).

My dad has always had a focus on yoga and meditation so he used to show me how to sit correctly and how to breath correctly and how to try and focus my mind on the mantra and on God so as to fall into a deep meditation while chanting.

So on one occasion, when we lived in a village in India, I sat to do my round and tried the techniques dad had taught me. Mum was in the same room cleaning and making sure I got through the round without cheating or spacing out.

At this time in my life, there was a picture of Radha and Krishna that I absolutely loved. I decided to try and meditate on that image while chanting. I don't know how and have never been able to get there since, but I fell into this trance. For roughly 10 minutes, my only awareness was of this image. I was no longer 'me' and had no concept of 'me'. There was only this image. I would describe the experience as deep peace, with no emotions and no thoughts.

I was brought out of the trance suddenly when my thumb hit the last bead. Mum was still near me, so I asked her how long I had been sitting there and if I had been chanting the whole time. She said I had, and very well.

So what seems to have happened, and I will never forget, is that I sat to chant starting at bead 1, fell immediately into a trance, and woke from it sitting in the same upright position, having chanted out loud without awareness and reached the final bead in the space of roughly 10 minutes.

This one experience has been enough for me to believe that there is really something to the teachings in my religion. I can relate to the concepts of Oneness, the concepts of Consciousness and trust that mediation works.

Thank you for sharing. I remember that you told that story at some point, either in a PM or on the forum.

When you say the state hasn't come back since, have you actively tried to replicate it since then, or have you not focused on bringing it back? If your father taught the technique for getting into deep meditation, does that mean he is able to do it quite often?

I had a few. I didn't seek it out initially. I was just doing a few assorted rituals I found online. Same feeling of...yeah I don't know how to say it (all I can say is I felt a vast expansive darkness, and I came back laughing like a madman). It was definitely replicable, and I interpreted it as some sort of altered psychological state.

What sort of rituals were they?

 

[Penumbra]

My life is a continuous flow of altered states of consciousness, Penumbra. I've had enough so-called "mystical experiences" for a small army. I guess I'm just slow or something and need the extra jolts to keep my interest perked. That said, the main area of interest to you may be in how I have come to interpret things. First off, I've learned to not fixate on whatever just occurred or leap to conclusions. Just because one has altered states of consciousness does not necessarily mean that one can actually describe them or for that matter, understands them. I think that that is where a lot of the gibberish has crept into mysticism, in that people interpret their experiences incorrectly, run with the ball and pretend they know what they are experiencing. Folks may even buttress their ignorant projections with quotes from mystical sounding writers... in a weak appeal to authority.

Unlike with other disciplines, if you will, the more one experiences these altered states, the less one eventually realizes they truly know. Such experiences do tend to flip reality on its pointy little head, I'll say that. It's like you thought you finally understood something and then you have yet another experience that tends to blow the doors off you precarious understanding. After awhile it just tends to keep you sharp and on your toes. Eventually, one no longer pretends they know much at all... as there is so much more to learn... It's a research study I see no end to... forever...

Thanks for the description. I've seen you talk about those states before.

What triggered you to start getting all those various altered states of consciousness for the first time? Did it just happen to you, or did you actively bring them about?

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I won't try to describe my experiences in detail, but many of them, the ones dearest to me, have revolved around mystical expressions of sexuality.

I think there's some truth to the claims by some psychiatrists and such that religious, altered states result from sublimated (or repressed, as they often term it) sexuality - many of them gosofar as to say denied homosexuality.

In my case, I took brahmacharya vrata (vow of celibacy) when I was 13 because I had intuited, in a hazy, pubescent manner, that that which my hormones was comeplling me to seek was an ultimately cyclical desire that would never result in the communion of minds that I sought.

This communion of minds - a symmetry between subject and object, such that neither can be said to be object or subject - one the object of the other, one the subject at the heart of the other, a mutually conjoined vision, is something that I began to think of in less romantic terms and more spiritualized terms gradually as I developed out of the 'hormones to head like a brick' phase of life.

Though a previous mystical experience caused by non-spiritual means that cannot be mentioned on this forum had first taken me back to Hinduism, it was a rap song "Shadows on the Sun" by Brother Ali that jarred me into awareness of this nonduality and set me down this path, for which I will always be grateful.

I had listened to the song many times, and I was listening to it one day, and the same words I had heard many times already hit me with tremendous new force.

There's only one God and He's not just above
There's only one man and there's only one love

Till everybody gets what I instill in my seed
For that y'all, we willing to bleed
There's only one God and He's not just above
There's only one woman and there's only one love
We doing this till all of Adam's children are freed
And for that y'all, we willing to bleed

That made everything click for me, and I mentally amended the second line from:

There's only one God and he's not just above
There's only one woman and there's only one love

to

There's only one God and She's not just above
There's only one woman and there's only one love

To give it the innate symmetry I felt the engendered deserved and proceeded from there, finding out as much as I could about this concept - most of which I found in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, as well as some in Sufism and Gnosticism.

Since then, structured contemplation in line with the agamas has caused me to, in contemplation of the male and female subtle forms, the linga (phallus) which interpenetrates all things, the yoni which encompasses all thing, mutually present in the heart of all subjects and objects, has opened realms of conscious that felt like experiencing, by the union of a single male and female deity, unions of countless deities in countless worlds in countless universes arrayed around them.

This is not a union that required my involvement on an egoic level. I didn't have to do anything, no volition necessary, it was already happening and its participants, the cosmic deities, allowed me the grace of being them by seeing them.

Hope this is helpful to someone.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

What sort of rituals were they?

One was simply meditating on the kuji-in (mudras that the hand seals of Naruto were based on). Another was a Hellenic variant on the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Both completely different paradigms, with different functions.